Swedish student's dramatic plane protest stops man's deportation 'to hell'

It takes a lot of courage to stand up like that for things you believe. Very respectable in a people in general.

TyrantGuardian said:

Yes, I want to pay more taxes. The thing I want isn't impossible, it just doesn't work with capitalism.

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Opinions like this are very interesting to read. Have you though how many % of your income would you be able to pay in taxes? I already pay 35% and i'd be lying if I would be ok if it were raised much more when half of my income goes to rent. In a global economy your view is pretty naive as people with money will just move out after a certain point. People already do this in even nordic countries when they want to avoid inheritance taxes.

Personally I don't think nordic welfare state (as it is) is compatible with thought of no deportations or grant asylum for who ever asks for it.

Good for her. Western democracies keep administratively eroding asylum to please xenophobic shitheads, it's nice to see people protesting this.

Keikaku said:

Afghanistan isn't hell. Swedish authorities lack balls it seems.

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And you lack heart. Go live in Afghanistan if it's so fine.

MMaRsu said:

Actually, people are friendly enough in Sweden and Europe that they will gladly listen to you if you do it in the right way. So yes showing up to someone's door, ringing the bell and explaining your convictions is likely to get a great response.

But hey, keep making those snarky comments! That's helping the discussion!

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Sweden friendly? Have you ever been to Stockholm? This post is just bs.

I'll give her credit for her bravery, standing up for what you believe isn't easy when there's an overwhelming counterforce.

With that said though, deportations are going to happen and they'll continue to happen.

Way too many people come to Scandinavia for them to stay here. Only people at serious, tangible risk will be allowed to stay. Saying you're gay is not something the Swedish authorities can take seriously. If they did a whole bunch of asylum seekers would suddenly be "gay". I mean how do you even prove that you're gay? It's just not a realistic reason for granting asylum.

While it's obviously incredibly tragic that Taliban is in control of large areas of Afghanistan, that doesn't make the place naturally unsafe. Sure it might absolutely suck to live there, but I also imagine it's not a fun time to live a whole bunch of other places. Are Sweden or other Scandinavian countries supposed to just accept everybody from these places as refugees? That is absolutely unsustainable. Just the people we've already taken in there's massive problems integrating them. I can't even imagine the chaos if they took in a lot more.

Other than that there's only the route of normal immigration as everybody else does. Of course it'll not just be given to you, you'll have to prove a valuable addition to society as you should.

36 Chambers said:

And before I get quoted endlessly saying how Im against protesting and civil disobedience, I'm not. I'm against this particular womans protest.

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Since your problem is the inconvenience caused, do you feel protests in general should avoid causing inconvenience?

Actually fucking cried at this.

THIS is using white privilege the right way.

Westbahnhof said:

Since your problem is the inconvenience caused, do you feel protests in general should avoid causing inconvenience?

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Not exactly. I've taken part in peaceful protests in my own country and have been inconvenienced by protests too. I have no problem whatsoever with it in general.

Reading this story, I just don't agree in this case. The woman must have known they would just put him on another flight. Rather than just delaying a flight and demanding attention, why not use that energy and protest immigration laws as a whole outside the parliament or whatever the Swedish equivalent is?

36 Chambers said:

why not use that energy and protest immigration laws as a whole outside the parliament or whatever the Swedish equivalent is?

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Why do you think she isn't already doing it?

TyrantGuardian said:

What? No. Never assume this. The Swedish immigration authorities are a steaming pile of garbage in many cases. I have experienced this first hand as a refugee myself. My family lived in a fucking hotel cleaning utility room for a month because the state couldn't provide better temporary housing. Sweden does a lot of good things but assuming that they make good decisions by default simply because they are Swedish is absurd. These authorities have been on the receiving end of intense criticism from human rights activists within Sweden for DECADES.

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Don't think this should get lost. This poster has personal experience with this authority. Maybe you should listen instead of blanket-praising Sweden for everything it does.

36 Chambers said:

Not exactly. I've taken part in peaceful protests in my own country and have been inconvenienced by protests too. I have no problem whatsoever with it in general.

Reading this story, I just don't agree in this case. The woman must have known they would just put him on another flight. Rather than just delaying a flight and demanding attention, why not use that energy and protest immigration laws as a whole outside the parliament or whatever the Swedish equivalent is?

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This kinda sounds like "Why carry water from the river and not just move the river". Sometimes, it makes more sense to tackle a smaller problem.
This obviously got loads of attention. Even if futile in the end, it was a highly effective move. Her protesting outside the parliament would likely have resulted in nothing. We'd have never heard about it.

Keikaku said:

Afghanistan isn't hell. Swedish authorities lack balls it seems.

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Oh, how long have you lived in Afghanistan? Which part?

Karasseram said:

Then please do tell where are you going to find the money and infrastructure for a small country with 5 million inhabitants like Norway to take in everyone that wants to and never deport anybody. And don't say increase taxes like its movie magic.

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Luckily, I don't have to say anything. It would literally pay for itself.

Facts courtesy of scientific meta analysis: https://phys.org/news/2018-06-asylum-seekers-burden-european-economies.html

jipewithin said:

Why do you think she isn't already doing it?

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How do you know she isn't just doing it for likes and attention on social media? We don't know. I just read this story, and gave my opinion in the vacuum and context of this story.

Westbahnhof said:

This kinda sounds like "Why carry water from the river and not just move the river". Sometimes, it makes more sense to tackle a smaller problem.
This obviously got loads of attention. Even if futile in the end, it was a highly effective move. Her protesting outside the parliament would likely have resulted in nothing. We'd have never heard about it.

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That's actually a great analogy and you do have a point. I guess I just look at it like one woman standing up on a plane, however admirable, is less likely to sway public opinion than a bunch of people in the streets. Of course I could be wrong, but Id be more likely to pay attention and get involved if that was going on in my city.

Where as if I was on that flight Id be telling her to sit down.

Palette Swap said:

Good for her. Western democracies keep administratively eroding asylum to please xenophobic shitheads, it's nice to see people protesting this.


And you lack heart. Go live in Afghanistan if it's so fine.

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Does Afghanistan take immigrants?

I wonder how were going'rgoing'rto deal with half of Africa trying to move to Europe when Africa becomes inhospitable due to climate change. This is a drop in the ocean compared to that.

I wonder what the reasoning will be then to deport people or not allow them in in the first place. They'll have nowhere else to go and climate change is massively a developed world problem that will affect the less developed world first. It's our responsibility.

Alright, let's take all afghan people in, because if one person is endangered there then all of them are.

Fulg0r3 said:

Alright, let's take all afghan people in, because if one person is endangered there then all of them are.

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stop this transparent shit

She's a hero. People without a heart and a shred of empathy in their body may disagree, but I don't care. if she gets financial punishment and sets up a gofundme, guess who I'd contribute to? Her, that's right.

"False claims to be gay" does not seem a thing, otherwise the number of people claiming to be gay would be way higher than the average percentage of gay people in the population. What is a thing is white people sending LGBT people from the region to die, to appease right-wing fanatics. I know this is a thing, so I sure as hell will support people fighting this travesty.

But hey, "Afghanistan isn't hell"! Getting killed is just something LGBT people have to deal with, and is in no way hellish for some reason - ACTUAL suffering is having your flight delayed. Apparently.

DavidDesu said:

I wonder how were going'rgoing'rto deal with half of Africa trying to move to Europe when Africa becomes inhospitable due to climate change. This is a drop in the ocean compared to that.

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Which one do you think is more likely to happen:

-Armed walls shooting on sight
or
-Actually letting everyone in

Inkvoterad said:

stop this transparent shit

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Why? It is not fair to let the weak die in the country and save the strong ones just because they had the opportunity to leave the country.

TyrantGuardian said:

I think literally everybody should be allowed to stay, barring criminal prosecution. I don't care if it works or not. I literally don't give a fuck. Human rights über alles.

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clearly
that explains so much

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Afghanistan ain't a safe country, this has been a controversy for quite some time now

the student did well, raised awareness on the issue, but that probably won't help the refugee who is being deported. It made headlines so I'd say it was a success

DavidDesu said:

I wonder how were going'rgoing'rto deal with half of Africa trying to move to Europe when Africa becomes inhospitable due to climate change. This is a drop in the ocean compared to that.

I wonder what the reasoning will be then to deport people or not allow them in in the first place. They'll have nowhere else to go and climate change is massively a developed world problem that will affect the less developed world first. It's our responsibility.

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The response will be, as always, "let them rot" with a sprinkling of "muh taxes" on top.

For the poster interested in further debate over my take on taxation (which is actually off topic here, see my link a few posts prior): I am on mobile right now but I plan on making a thread debating the merits and implementations of taxation in general. Stay tuned, I'm hoping for a very interesting debate with many varied opinions and arguments.

MMaRsu said:

How is she a hero exactly? This man is still going to be deported, except on a private jet this time. Costing more money and fuel and she was an inconveinence to the other people on the plane as well as breaking the law for not following pilot's orders. Going against a court ordered procedure.

She didn't accomplish anything in the end.

People, it's not like Sweden isn't a liberal country where literally thousands of asylum seekers ARE granted asylum?

People in here railing on Swedish political system and it's taxpayers are not in touch with reality.

The Netherlands also deports men immigrants as well. Or they do not grant asylum to everybody. But they also take in a lot of immigrants. Not everybody can stay.

This woman is not a hero.

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This person feared so much for their life that they decided to flee their home country. Fuck everyone who thinks they are treated fairly by western countries who are sending them back. There are plenty of racists and shitty people handling these cases. Others are human who make human errors. A lot if cases are up for interpretations and these authorities are pressured to make as many negative asylum decisions as possible. They aren't working from a purely objective POV by any means. If you believe that, you're ignorant.

EU's stance on the safeness of particular countries with lots of refugees is laughably, naively optimistic and is obviously such just to be able to send away asylum seekers. Afghanistan isn't a safe country by any degree no matter what the "authorities" say about it.

She is a great person for fighting for asylum seekers.

Fulg0r3 said:

Why? It is not fair to let the weak die in the country and save the strong ones just because they had the opportunity to leave the country.

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Wait. So your argument is that the "strong" (who made it here, and are therefore strong apparently, and can't in any way be vulnerable) should die since we are also not saving the weak.

I am not quite sure THAT is the logical solution to the problem you are describing. The humane solution would be to work for the *weak* also not dying, while not sending the """""""strong"""""""" to die.

36 Chambers said:

She shoulda been taken off the plane too. By all means she can disagree with what the Swedish government decided. But holding up a plane isnt the way to do it. The guys just gonna be put on another flight anyway.

I'd have told her to sit down.

I feel like the whole border in America is making people oppose deportation full stop without the context or the facts.

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Civil disobedience is exactly the way to fight this. It brings these issues into light and might encourage others to take action.

It's sad you care more about other people on a flight than a person possibly being sent to die or at least live in constant fear of it.

Shredderi said:

Does Afghanistan take immigrants?

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I'm trying to parse if you're obtuse and pedantic ("lul he can't go there because Afghanistan wouldn't have him") or under the delusion asylum requires a form of reciprocity.

For everyone who thinks Afghanistan is safe. Deportations to Afghanistan should stop until it is made safe. Sending someone back there is sending someone to their death.

Please make Frequent Flyer's ban permo.

Much respect to her for taking a stand.

Keikaku said:

Afghanistan isn't hell. Swedish authorities lack balls it seems.

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What the fuck is wrong with you

Palette Swap said:

I'm trying to parse if you're obtuse and pedantic ("lul he can't go there because Afghanistan wouldn't have him") or under the delusion asylum requires a form of reciprocity.

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I don't know what else to say except that I found it a really strange thing to say, even to make a point.

Keikaku said:

Afghanistan isn't hell. Swedish authorities lack balls it seems.

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Go book a flight over there and live there then if it's so good there. Haven't booked your flight? You lack balls it seems.

36 Chambers said:

How do you know she isn't just doing it for likes and attention on social media? We don't know. I just read this story, and gave my opinion in the vacuum and context of this story.

That's actually a great analogy and you do have a point. I guess I just look at it like one woman standing up on a plane, however admirable, is less likely to sway public opinion than a bunch of people in the streets. Of course I could be wrong, but Id be more likely to pay attention and get involved if that was going on in my city.

Where as if I was on that flight Id be telling her to sit down.

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Oh look, an insinuation of virtue signalling. Exactly what this topic needed

I don't know Swedish law but I do commend the woman. I don't think it's right to deport people to unsafe countries and even the people in this thread acting like Afghanistan isn't as bad as people are claiming probably know otherwise.

Inkvoterad said:

I suppose one shouldn't expect much from a majority american forum. Y'all shit yourselves at the slightest form of protest.

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Wut? Americans protest everything my forum friend. Genuinely laughing at this one.

Forcing these people back to the hellholes they come from is inhumane in most of these cases.

The continent needs to work out a solid agreement so that more countries oblige to take in more refugees and asylum seekers

Maybe the EU should consider compromising on mass immigration rules for member states best equipped to take in more asylum seekers. That way nations which are already reserved about open borders can specify 'reasonable' quotas instead for EU citizens. For that increased control over their own borders they then have to agree to take in more asylum seekers and refugees in exchange.

It would be better to emphasize the most vulnerable. There's only going to people wanting to settle in Europe with what's going on in Syria.

She is amazing. Also fuck that English guy.

Aniki said:

Pretty courageous of her. All alone standing up for what she thinks is right. She has my respect.

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Same. A hero in my book.

Menace said:

clearly
that explains so much

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Do you disagree that our priority should be moving toward an ideological stance of supporting and giving shelter to all people fleeing war/poverty/political persecution? Because that's what I'm saying. I don't give a shit about people claiming "it doesn't work", it doesn't matter to me. Saving peoples' lives always takes priority. Now, I'm not a legislator and how this ideal should be implemented isn't up to me to decide (though I certainly have some opinions around that as well), but I still think it's an ideal we should unconditionally be aiming toward.

36 Chambers said:

How do you know she isn't just doing it for likes and attention on social media? We don't know.

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Who gives a shit.
She did the right thing and stopped a man from possibly dying, who cares that she did it to look good or whatever conspiracy theory youre on.

Richter1887 said:

Afghanistan isn't safe no matter how you put it.

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Well, if authorities actually took that to heart then every single citizen in Afghanistan would be entitled to asylum in a western country.

I don't know whether this deportation was warranted or not but a lot of people seem to be making a hard opinion about this without knowing anything about the situation. There are lots of reasons why any given deportation might be warranted:

-Keep committing crimes in the country the are seeking asylum.
-Lying about the reason for seeking asylum. A LOT of young men come to the west just to find a job that makes more money that what they can find at home but say they are fleeing war or persecution.
-The reason for them seeking asylum is no longer relevant.

Now, if he really is a homosexual who was persecuted then absolutely yes, he should not be deported. But do we know whether that is the case? Don't make blanket statements like "deportation is wrong" until you've established the actual reason for it.

Pancracio17 said:

Who gives a shit.
She did the right thing and stopped a man from possibly dying, who cares that she did it to look good or whatever conspiracy theory youre on.

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Conspiracy theory? She didn't stop dick. She delayed a mans inevitable deportation. Id bet he was flown back that day even.

36 Chambers said:

Conspiracy theory? She didn't stop dick. She delayed a mans inevitable deportation. Id bet he was flown back that day even.

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Delaying it is enough, more than you ever did.

Pancracio17 said:

Delaying it is enough, more than you ever did.

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Don't let him move the goal posts to effectiveness after he insinuated she only did it to virtue signal. Let's focus more on why he's using the alt-right playbook to downplay what she did.

You guys are so fucking dramatic. And of course the words "alt right" are getting thrown around now lmao jesus christ

Keikaku said:

Afghanistan isn't hell. Swedish authorities lack balls it seems.

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Funny, the people with this "point of view" are usually the same people that call these countries shitholes.

Afghan doesn't even have a stable government and the country has been destabilized for decades now by the western governments.

36 Chambers said:

You guys are so fucking dramatic. And of course the words "alt right" are getting thrown around now lmao jesus christ

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To be clear, i'm not actually calling you alt-right, because I don't know anything about you, but I am saying you're using their words. Why are you doing that?

Dr.Phibes said:

Damn, I missed another Frequent Flyer meltdown. His hatred for Muslim immigrants is so obvious.

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The weirdest part is when he randomly capitalizes some words but not the other.
I'm used to online bigotry on a daily basis, but it usually doesn't seem like a robot is accidentally typing it.

Is there some hidden message in the capitalized words?

DarkConfidant said:

The weirdest part is when he randomly capitalizes some words but not the other.
I'm used to online bigotry on a daily basis, but it usually doesn't seem like a robot is accidentally typing it.

Is there some hidden message in the capitalized words?

Spoiler

The hidden message is probably islamophobic.

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Now now. Let's not make (frankly insulting) comments like that about a German native speaker writing English. German has different capitalization rules(most importantly, nouns are capitalized), and it's easy to screw up.
It might even be partly due to German+English autocorrect being funky.

What you're doing is not criticism, it's shitting on an ESL speaker's English skills. Stop it.

*Edit due to spelling errors. Whoops.

36 Chambers said:

You guys are so fucking dramatic. And of course the words "alt right" are getting thrown around now lmao jesus christ

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He is not exactly wrong. A common alt-right tactic is to dismiss any person doing the right thing as "oh they are just doing it for the clout", also know as virtue signaling.
Its a dumb tactic that tries to discredit things that good people do.