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Nov 1, 2017
1,140
Hmm... I've been following it, but must have missed the discussion about an en masse exodus of women from this forum.
It's been coming up throughout this thread and has in others in the past. Women on the site saying they know of others that have left, thinking about leaving themselves. I'm also counting those I see saying that they don't post in most topics because it upsets them too much since they're not getting to enjoy the community as much as they should be able to.
 

CynicalSyndie

Member
Apr 16, 2018
524
Well my point is more that with a short ban, someone should just shrug their shoulders and get over it......(s)he shouldn't still be grinding an axe months later.

I'm not sure if harsher bans/moderation will fix that much, just because there's a revolving door of people floating in and out of here.
Ah I see. I misunderstood. My apologies. I see where you're coming from though. Taking it as a personal affront benefits no one.
 

Heisenberg726

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
No it is not. It is the opposite of what a "progressives" should do. It is what backward conservatives do- separate the men from "the females", as if they are a difference species that cannot be understood by "normal" huMAN social norms, hence have to be put in their own private box.

Instead of confronted and dealing with a segment of men on this board being toxic to women and minorities, it would create a safe space for those men to continue to be toxic. It would make an easier target for stalkers, to see all the female names in one place. Might as well as go back to the other board in no one is going to make the effort to be progressive and inclusive.

Thanks for the kind explanation. It seemed good on paper, but yeah, it is bad.
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,805
Sheffield, UK
Well my point is more that with a short ban, someone should just shrug their shoulders and get over it......(s)he shouldn't still be grinding an axe months later.

I'm not sure if harsher bans/moderation will fix that much, just because there's a revolving door of people floating in and out of here.
That's why harsher moderation is necessary. There's a constant influx of dicks and the mods need to fire them into space as soon as they reveal their bulbous purple heads. Hesitation just allows the board to slide further into Dicksville.
 

Alexiell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,028
Louisiana
I think you got it. But it takes a lot of energy. So many things go towards minimizing women's presence in gaming, and on the board. I don't think it's possible to solve without more decisive banning. Reality: someone is silenced either way. You either make the board more welcoming for vulnerable people or you give 200 people the ability to come back next week "just asking questions" about whether, right at this very moment, women are going through linkedin to target a wealthy white guy for their false rape allegation. How many women want to stick around, seeing that kind of shit? You think we don't each know a dozen women who were raped and never reported it, and the one that did because the asshole filmed it didn't have a strong enough case? There is nothing to be gained here, and sanity to lose. I would hope there would eventually be a tipping point where enough women participating would shift the culture of the board. Even then, mods would have to decisively bail to keep afloat in the sewage of gaming culture. I don't know if most of the people in here are talking about American standards, but if someone were to walk into my workplace and say stuff I read on this forum, they'd get side-eyed and people would revise their opinion to "ignorant asshole". What this forum finds reasonable is a far cry from what's acceptable in real life.

I think this is obvious, but maybe it isn't to everyone: a lot of women members don't want to get into the trenches. Entering those discussions is like a protracted gish gallop against "just asking questions". Frankly, it's depressing, and it erodes my faith in humanity. I'd rather discuss gender issues with random people on the street. I don't have the fire or self-hatred required. They are all the same. I see them: designs for female characters, arena net, any trans thread, men and empathy... I open them and hope to be surprised and want to say something, but I will bail by page two. If someone has metrics concerning activity for people on this site who identify as women I would not be surprised to see a tendency to lurk. I'm grateful for those who have the energy to keep establishing super basic shit for the j.a.q.offs. I admire women who throw their hats in. We all have a mental timer until some chucklehead types that their girlfriend/wife agrees with him, in an attempt to invalidate women who actually posted.

Privileged men, though, they've got a stockpile of excuses as to why they are always the ones who matter. In gaming, straight white guys are the majority so everything should be for them... what? Straight white males are not the majority demographic group of the world? Well, they are the most 'core,' legitimate group that everyone should be trying to sell things to, and women aren't even interested anyway, they just want to play candy crush! What, the wii happened and women also play 'core' games and actually spend money on shit? Well, uh, that was a piece of junk, clearly it's not a 'core' device. But let's talk about artistic integrity. Men don't try to censor devs' artistic vision by insisting that male characters shouldn't be dressed like strippers. Clearly men are the patrons of ART and FREEDOM, not those jealous women who can't stand seeing t&a! Oh, wait, men kicked up some huge fuss about that final fantasy mobile game guy not wearing enough clothes and it was changed?

I think the basic answer to why some men don't develop empathy is simple. You don't develop a muscle you never have to use. Women go through a gauntlet of judgement every day. Understanding others' perspectives is a tool for self-preservation. There's always a reason that it's only men at the table. It's natural! Due to merit! It's market forces! Women should be making people, not money - and preferably male people! All evil came out of Pandora's vagoo! Eve ate the apple! You don't have souls!

There's always a reason for everyone else to be grateful for scraps. Resetera being the "most progressive" of gaming sites, that's definitely a scrap.
Put it better than I could have.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
Well the bottom line is to be respectful and understand the hardships people who are marginalized go through.

If the tone comes off as frustrated and hyperbolic, understand that it comes from years of being marginalized.

I don't know what I could add to this thread or how to get a good discussion going so yeah these are my 2 cents.
 

Heisenberg726

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
What that guy said it complete bullshit and outright lies. There was no thread asking if you'd date a trans person, there was a thread about a study that showed most cis people still won't date trans people and tons of posters in that thread thought it important to make it clear they too wouldn't because that's super helpful and considerate to the trans community here. /s

This included the now banned poster you "completely agree" with who was transphobic as fuck claiming trans women were not the "opposite sex" to men and that "I don't want a penis in bed with me. I'm straight, I want a vagina." So what exactly are we doing here? How is this just a different opinion that's no way toxic, but just against the ideology of the left?



EDIT: Sorry, I didn't see the prior mod post.
 

StoveOven

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
Yeah, that's really what a lot of this boils down to. This is the exact reason why all the posts along the lines of "your argument was not sound enough and could not convince me" feel so incredibly hurtful to me. It's obvious that they have serious issues with empathy generally if they're trying to "logic" their way into feeling for people.
Wow. Well said. This is such a perfect encapsulation of what's wrong with so much of the general mindset that some guys approach these topics with. It's this focus on being hyper-rational and viewing emotions as things to be supressed and that only get in the way of rationality that is engrained in the minds of a lot of young men (self included--I was at that point for a good four years) that really fucks up these conversations, hurts men, and hurts the people around them.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Old man posting...

I want to repeat the urge for women posters to hang in while we all get better.

I've been active online since before the web, and was on Neogaf from the start. There are more "out" women here than on the old site, and more there last year than there were in the 00's. And the community is 100% better for it.

Yeah, I get it sucks. And the thread is a great way to effect a change for the better. Hang in, the trend has been going the right direction.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
That's why harsher moderation is necessary. There's a constant influx of dicks and the mods need to fire them into space as soon as they reveal their bulbous purple heads. Hesitation just allows the board to slide further into Dicksville.
NeoGAF moderators doled out Wild West justice, and I don't think that really helped or made it a more inviting space for women or minorities. I don't think the people bemoaning ResetERA's state would have considered that forum a progressive space (even if they ignored all the rot and corruption that was festering under the surface).

The "Don't used the word female" thread would have been an absolute shitshow over there as well.
 

Heisenberg726

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,065
Can a mod explain what "arguing in bad faith" is please? I'm confused as to why people are arguing about it here and the context of it in this forum.

I don't really know if this is thread derailment or not, too...
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
Can a mod explain what "arguing in bad faith" is please? I'm confused as to why people are arguing about it here and the context of it in this forum.

I don't really know if this is thread derailment or not, too...

Someone who's not arguing out of a genuine interest in discussing the subject. They're there to troll, or to derail actual good discussion.

Best example I can think of relating to this forum (or the old one rather) were the people who would go into Gamergate-related threads months or longer after it had blown up and do a "well I dunno about this harassment, but have you seen what Anita Sarkeesian is getting up to? Just asking questions..." trolling move.

It's not something innately obvious, but if someone keeps going into the same threads pulling the same behavior it becomes more explanatory.
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
Can a mod explain what "arguing in bad faith" is please? I'm confused as to why people are arguing about it here and the context of it in this forum.

I don't really know if this is thread derailment or not, too...

It's a blanket term for people being disingenuous with their posts.

If you ask me what disingenuous means instead of looking it up, well...
 

A.J.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,368
It's a shame women are forced to put up with this. People really need to realize that you can always be better. The only time you can't be better is when you are dead. Or in a coma. Well maybe you can dream about being better in the latter.
 

Arozay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
326
(Read OP) cinematic universe.

Mods are pretty good at warning/banning for behaviour-related infractions as mentioned in the OP, probably too good as if this was real life you'd cop a simultaneous warning/ban for an ill-timed fart.

Considering the above as infractions of an individual, what lead to "silenced and shat on" specifically on this forum as per the title.
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
Can a mod explain what "arguing in bad faith" is please? I'm confused as to why people are arguing about it here and the context of it in this forum.

I don't really know if this is thread derailment or not, too...

Arguing to win rather than as an honest expression of a viewpoint, often shows up as ignoring other people's points or deliberately "misunderstanding" them or misrepresenting their views.
 

FUME5

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,421
(Read OP) cinematic universe.

Mods are pretty good at warning/banning for behaviour-related infractions as mentioned in the OP, probably too good as if this was real life you'd cop a simultaneous warning/ban for an ill-timed fart.

Considering the above as infractions of an individual, what lead to "silenced and shat on" specifically on this forum as per the title.

What?
 

Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,695
Can a mod explain what "arguing in bad faith" is please? I'm confused as to why people are arguing about it here and the context of it in this forum.

I don't really know if this is thread derailment or not, too...
Basically when someone is arguing with no intentions of actually listening to what other people say and is just there to stir some shit.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
That's why harsher moderation is necessary. There's a constant influx of dicks and the mods need to fire them into space as soon as they reveal their bulbous purple heads. Hesitation just allows the board to slide further into Dicksville.
I hope you realize that you are being unreasonable here.

You're basically asking for the board to become one big echo chamber adhering to your personal moral ideologies.
 

D i Z

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,085
Where X marks the spot.
The way I see it the women on Era aren't going to step back into the flow of the site until this place is cleaned up a bit. The misogyny valve needs to be capped off with some serious enforcement for infractions, and fuckers on other sites (and this one) need to quit doxxing them. And that's just a couple of issues that need to be seriously dealt with.
 

Grim

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
2,036
London, UK.
Seen the mod warning. Deleted enough though my post wasn't about trans issues the argument stemmed from them
 
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Pancracio17

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
18,695
I hope you realize that you are being unreasonable here.

You're basically asking for the board to become one big echo chamber adhering to your personal moral ideologies.
Theres a difference between "personal ideologies" and "being a dick" I feel.
In the context it probably means racist, sexist, homophobic, etc. Id agree that the mods need to ban those people.
 

rstzkpf

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,072
It's weird how many gamer guys are so fucking thirsty that they end up scaring women away either because you act like horny robots or because you are overtly misogynistic. Like in the "don't call us females thread" uh. How could you not know that sounds bad? Like you want to date "a female"? Wow, really? And you don't see why that sounds objectifying and creepy? Do y'all seriously not realize that women are also people? Or do you just want to say "girls" but don't feel comfortable saying that but also for some reason don't feel comfortable saying "women" either so you default to this weird ass formality?
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,805
Sheffield, UK
I hope you realize that you are being unreasonable here.

You're basically asking for the board to become one big echo chamber adhering to your personal moral ideologies.
My ideology isn't important. I'm not being marginalised, and I don't even know what that feels like. Making me comfortable shouldn't be a focus for Resetera. It's for the mods to decide what kind of community they want to foster, and get of rid of anyone whose behaviour is detrimental to that goal. You can't make a beautiful garden without pruning.
 

Deleted member 18347

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,572
My ideology isn't important. I'm not being marginalised, and I don't even know what that feels like. Making me comfortable shouldn't be a focus for Resetera. It's for the mods to decide what kind of community they want to foster, and get of rid of anyone whose behaviour is detrimental to that goal. You can't make a beautiful garden without pruning.
Beautiful words. But the mods are already doing exactly what you're asking for.
 

weemadarthur

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,588
Her Hero Is Gone That post was great
Ketkat your posts are always great
excelsiorlef How's thursday look for pointless arguing? I have off.

The reason these threads are always made by Persephone is that a whole lot of women have logged out and forgotten their passwords to this site, but rest assured, they rally for persephone and read her threads, and if one ever shows an entire lack of response, then maybe it will prove this site is friendly enough for them to feel like rejoining.
 

Arozay

Member
Oct 29, 2017
326
Like in the Pro CoD player thread it was just shitty takes from some posters who got banned, then the thread was locked. That's what happened, moderation dealt with it.

It's kinda hard to specifically address the OP with how it's written. Without just commenting vaguely on the state of things of course.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,927
I realize this is an impractical idea because of the undue burden it would place on the mods, but for all these users who don't get permanent bans for being racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic comments, that when they're banned, there's like a link to an outside reputable or relevant article/study about their ban. Like, "User Banned (1 Week): Transphobia. Please learn more about these issues here: link". And that way if they screw up again in a similar fashion, there's no wiggle room of "How could I know!" whining. I wonder if that would help at all.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
I want to say that there's a lot of stuff in here that I agree with and think is very well put, sorry for not pointing it out specifically as many posters already have. Also having trouble keeping up and am really trying to make sure I take all of it in.

Also, I know a woman IRL who was a member here and hasn't been active for months now, specifically for the reasons being discussed in this thread. Just wanted to say this to further help give folks who might not know this is happening some perspective.

You didn't, though it's probably not feasible for the mod team to mass outreach.
I'd say it depends on what the site code is capable of. I don't want to get armchair admin-y, though, because I don't know the logistics of the backend or how much work is involved in a standard ban on the mods' part.
 

Deleted member 17092

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
20,360
The site needs more moderation. I think there is a real fear of becoming too much of an echo chamber, but an echo chamber of good people is better than a shit sandwich.
 

Pixieking

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,956
The obvious rebuttal for "Moderators are already pruning the dicks" - and all the "We need better moderation" arguments - is that moderation still takes time. The time may be an hour, or it may be six hours, but it still conceivably takes long enough that the damage is done. Edit: By that I mean, women are made to feel like shit, have their opinions disregarded, etc.

So, maybe a better way to approach it is - can moderation be sped-up? And if not, then the next obvious question would be, "Is reliance on moderation the only hope for improving Era?"
 
Dec 2, 2017
50
User Banned (Permanent): Trolling, derailing, lying about post history. Junior account.
I got called a racist nazi for saying black panther was bad. I'm sure you can guess what happened to that poster. nothing. This site is hilarious.
 

Linkura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,943
One thing I thought of this evening:

I think the fact that ban/warn posts aren't deleted has subconsciously affected my view of the site. At most places, they delete posts that lead to bans/warns entirely. But here, they still show what led to the ban/warn in plain view. This leads me to think that the the moderation isn't as effective as it is because I still SEE the posts even IF action was taken. At the old place, I didn't see nearly as many problematic posts because they were just deleted outright. And it's not like I can easily look away- it's like a trainwreck; if it's there, you can't easily look away. I am wondering if there is a functionality in the forum software to hide content that was banned or warned so we don't have it right in our faces when reading the forum. Like have the post there, but you can only see the red bar unless you click unhide.

Thoughts? I am going to bed now so I won't be able to respond right away, but I wanted to make sure I posted this for consideration.
 

4859

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,046
In the weak and the wounded
I got called a racist nazi for saying black panther was bad. I'm sure you can guess what happened to that poster. nothing. This site is hilarious.

The fact you came Into this thread to randomly post that, really raises doubts about the validity of your claim.

And that's not even considering the fact somebody ELSE just tried to pull this exact shit and got proven to be lying out their ass.
 

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,050
I got called a racist nazi for saying black panther was bad. I'm sure you can guess what happened to that poster. nothing. This site is hilarious.

Where is this post that called you a racist Nazi? I looked at that thread and the only thing I saw was someone that changed the quote to 'I can't understand why it was so beloved (by blacks)'

The brackets show what was added by the person quoting you, who said 'Wow'.

Where did you get called a racist Nazi?
 

Guppeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,805
Sheffield, UK
The obvious rebuttal for "Moderators are already pruning the dicks" - and all the "We need better moderation" arguments - is that moderation still takes time. The time may be an hour, or it may be six hours, but it still conceivably takes long enough that the damage is done.

So, maybe a better way to approach it is - can moderation be sped-up? And if not, then the next obvious question would be, "Is reliance on moderation the only hope for improving Era?"
You're right, and I don't mean to criticise the moderators themselves. Even if the mods turn into velociraptors, there's only so much they can do.

An alternative would be to get a load more women to sign up. No idea how that could be achieved though.
 
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