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Trejo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,830
No one is saying you have to give him a hug, but it is seriously messed up to look forward with excitement to someone's death.

I actually reported a lot of those posts on the first page a while ago. They didn't add anything to the discussion and are just fucked up. I know the mods are active in this thread because they've done good work banning homophobes. But it is disappointing to see they did nothing to those posts despite them being reported. A warning at least is warranted. I think allowing that type of rhetoric reflects very poorly on this community. There are much better and more effective ways to criticize a horrible person without advocating the persons deafh.

Sorry but no. Sugiyama has proven himself time and again to be a hateful old fuck and the world will be a slightly better place once he's gone. That's just the facts. No one here's advocating for violence against him but we're also not gonna shed a tear once his time comes either so your concerned pearl-clutching is kinda unwanted and unneeded.

Good job wantonly reporting people you disagree with in an attempt to backseat mod and control the conversation though!
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
6,566
The notion that it is impossible for Square Enix to move on from this guy is laughable. If they so choose, they can. A global corporation wouldn't simply allow one man to hold their franchise hostage. I'm not saying it wouldn't be messy or that some people wouldn't be upset. But my point about Uematsu, since some of you didn't get it, is that franchise and fans have, can and will move on from people so tied to a series. It happens in Japan, the US, and Europe all the time in games and movies. There is no doubt Square has at least thought about it if not only for the fact that he is old and his time on this earth is short.The transition is going to happen as some point.

Placing DQ in this bubble where it is impossible to change the status quo is disingenuous. If you don't think that Square should move on from him, that is fine. But don't disguise "Well because of Japan, it's impossible so don't even bother discussing".
I mean, Uematsu didn't own part of Final Fantasy, so the comparison kind of falls apart there.

But I think you're arguing against someone who says it is impossible and cannot legally or physically be done and I am not sure anyone here is arguing that.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
i haven't seen any fox in years, no. i try not to make myself even more depressed than i already am. i just can't imagine advertisers being okay with you laughing at child suicide in this country?

You can mock children being shot up in schools just fine just because people are protesting gun violence, and you think thats out of bounds?
 

Deleted member 2652

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,434
Wishing a man death is just wrong, regardless of his age and what he stands for.

Him denying Japan's war crimes is ridiculous, but him openly ridiculing LGBT in a country that doesn't understand it, is not strange. But he is definitely not role model material.

End of the day this show was not directed to non Japanese people. And it's obvious there's an agenda here. No point in getting upset and wishing him death due to something not meant for majority of the people here.
Ridiculing LGBT suicide is not okay in any fucking country, what the fuck is wrong with you.
 

lori

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,905
You can mock children being shot up in schools just fine just because people are protesting gun violence, and you think thats out of bounds?
that's part of why i brought up advertisers. didn't they all wind up pulling out on the host that did that, or is it more commonplace than i'm currently aware of? you'd think no brands would want to be associated with this.
 

1000% H

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,639
that's part of why i brought up advertisers. didn't they all wind up pulling out on the host that did that, or is it more commonplace than i'm currently aware of? you'd think no brands would want to be associated with this.
If there's people who think like that, there's companies that think like that or are at least fine with that being spread.
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
I am about 85% certain that Sugiyama does very little actual composing these days, and mostly directs a stable of sound-alikes and takes credit for their work.

So I don't think replacing him would be particularly difficult if they had the political will to do so.

It probably won't happen, but it would mean a lot if Square Enix USA issued a statement of some kind.
 

Zetta

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,631
My question is has this happened before in another series where one region gets orchestrated and another gets this POS Midi? I mean how can SE see this and not think its messed up.
 

Vire

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
What a fucking clown, him and his shitty music.

And no I don't care if you orchestrate it, it's still shitty.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
I am about 85% certain that Sugiyama does very little actual composing these days, and mostly directs a stable of sound-alikes and takes credit for their work.

So I don't think replacing him would be particularly difficult if they had the political will to do so.

It probably won't happen, but it would mean a lot if Square Enix USA issued a statement of some kind.

The problem isn't really he's composing or not but having copyright on DQ music.

My question is has this happened before in another series where one region gets orchestrated and another gets this POS Midi? I mean how can SE see this and not think its messed up.

In Japan it's also MIDI because he wants everyone to pay for his orchestra. Only in the west it was orchestrated and just on DQ8 for PS2.
 

GillianSeed79

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,371
Ugghh...I'm really looking forward to DQ11, but don't want this asshat to get any financial support. What do I do? Buy used?
 
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duckroll

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,161
Singapore
So how come SE was able to get it that way for the US version of DQ8 but not for anything since? I've always wondered about that.
Dragon Quest 8 was pretty special because it was the first DQ game post-merger, and outside of Japan it would be the first Dragon Quest title actually called Dragon Quest. Given the production values and their market position at the time, one can surmise that S-E really wanted a good showing in the west, and went out of their way to add voice acting and the orchestrated soundtrack. Maybe Sugiyama agreed to it because the series being more popular worldwide would also benefit him financially. Beyond that, he probably isn't very keen on agreeing to it for every game.
 

ShinySunny

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
1,730
He's a backwards-thinking almost-90-year-old man, there's no getting around that. Yet his music has deeply moved me since I was a little kid, and I love it very much.

Opposite for me.
I put the music on mute during my early year of playing the series.
Even during the PS1 era, I was shocked that the music didn't improve with new technology.
It was so ears piercing bad because the main theme would just repeated over and over with 3 high pitch notes.

Glad DQ never took off in the West.
I would probably never play a JRPG game again if DQ was the most popular IP over here.
FF and CT OST saved my childhood and love for JRPG.
 

Lindsay

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,131
Knew the dudes been a scumbag since the war crime denial stuff came out awhile back so its totally not shocking to find out his craps not limited to just that one awful thing, but to another, an prolly many more.

Kinda weird how all of a sudden DQs music isn't just bad, but has always been bad. I always thought it was okay, kinda samey especially when they totally do reuse tracks, but not bad. Still would be nice if he'd retire so other composers officially step up. He'd be making bank offa it but him being involved in name-only is at least a step up.

I did enough not-supporting him/DQ by passing on DQ8 3DS, those DQ Warriors games, and that DQ Minecraft game. So I'ma still be sticking with my original plan of picking DQ11 up on the cheap during the Black Friday period.
 

Aeana

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,925
Opposite for me.
I put the music on mute during my early year of playing the series.
Even during the PS1 era, I was shocked that the music didn't improve with new technology.
It was so ears piercing bad because the main theme would just repeated over and over with 3 high pitch notes.

Glad DQ never took off in the West.
I would probably never play a JRPG game again if DQ was the most popular IP over here.
FF and CT OST saved my childhood and love for JRPG.
Even if it were popular, why would that stop you from playing others? This is silly.
 

clay_ghost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,368
I am about 85% certain that Sugiyama does very little actual composing these days, and mostly directs a stable of sound-alikes and takes credit for their work.

So I don't think replacing him would be particularly difficult if they had the political will to do so.

It probably won't happen, but it would mean a lot if Square Enix USA issued a statement of some kind.
DQ sword have great music that feels like DQ that is done by someone who composed megaman music IIRC.
 

ShinySunny

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
1,730
Even if it were popular, why would that stop you from playing others? This is silly.

Because of DQ story theme and combat system.
If it were the most popular series in the world, a lot of publishers will try to copy the same formula.

I don't even want to think of the potential timeline where other JRPG would use the ugly 1st person menu system over FF 3rd person ATB system.

Out of all the JRPG in that era, like Lufia was the only that did that type of combat system right and better than DQ.
 

clay_ghost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,368
Because of DQ story theme and combat system.
If it were the most popular series in the world, a lot of publishers will try to copy the same formula.

I don't even want to think of the potential timeline where other JRPG would use the ugly 1st person menu system over FF 3rd person ATB system.

Out of all the JRPG in that era, like Lufia was the only that did that type of combat system right and better than DQ.

You play too little RPGs. There are many games that are strongly influenced by DQ.
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
Because of DQ story theme and combat system.
If it were the most popular series in the world, a lot of publishers will try to copy the same formula.

I don't even want to think of the potential timeline where other JRPG would use the ugly 1st person menu system over FF 3rd person ATB system.

Out of all the JRPG in that era, like Lufia was the only that did that type of combat system right and better than DQ.

Play other jrpg rather than ur small hole lol.

Earthbound which beloved by many is literally DQ inspired title.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
Because of DQ story theme and combat system.
If it were the most popular series in the world, a lot of publishers will try to copy the same formula.

I don't even want to think of the potential timeline where other JRPG would use the ugly 1st person menu system over FF 3rd person ATB system.

Out of all the JRPG in that era, like Lufia was the only that did that type of combat system right and better than DQ.

Uh, Final Fantasy itself was influenced by Dragon Quest. In the NES and SNES era there was many DQ clones as well. Mother was inspired by Dragon Quest, Souls had a bit of inspiration on the franchise as well, Octopath Traveler was inspired by DQ too with the many stories which appeared for the first time in DQ4 (along Primrose being really similar to a character from 4) and Pokémon was inspired by DQ5 in it's mechanic for monster capture (just like for one character in Octopath), etc. DQ already influenced many franchises during it's life..
 

clay_ghost

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,368
Uh, Final Fantasy itself was influenced by Dragon Quest. In the NES and SNES era there was many DQ clones as well. Mother was inspired by Dragon Quest, Souls had a bit of inspiration on the franchise as well, Octopath Traveler was inspired by DQ too with the many stories which appeared for the first time in DQ4 (along Primrose being really similar to a character from 4) and Pokémon was inspired by DQ5 in it's mechanic for monster capture (just like for one character in Octopath), etc. DQ already influenced many franchises during it's life..

I think he only meant the 1st person turn based battle system when DQ innovates far more than that.
 

rawhide

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,003
So how come SE was able to get it that way for the US version of DQ8 but not for anything since? I've always wondered about that.

It's not as black-and-white as "he wants more royalties"--Sugiyama is also very picky about orchestrations of his work and generally believes games should use sequenced music rather than recorded music, so he uses his clout to demand prohibitively high royalties and in most circumstances S-E says "fuck it, not worth it" and doesn't bother.
 

ShinySunny

Banned
Dec 15, 2017
1,730
Uh, Final Fantasy itself was influenced by Dragon Quest. In the NES and SNES era there was many DQ clones as well. Mother was inspired by Dragon Quest, Souls had a bit of inspiration on the franchise as well, Octopath Traveler was inspired by DQ too with the many stories which appeared for the first time in DQ4 (along Primrose being really similar to a character from 4) and Pokémon was inspired by DQ5 in it's mechanic for monster capture (just like for one character in Octopath), etc. DQ already influenced many franchises during it's life..

Octopath is more of Romancing Saga in structure.
I can only think of FF1/MQ and DQ due to its similar story structure and hero. But after that, it took on a different outlook.
Pokemon capturing monster? I thought Megami Tensei came up with that idea.
 

Anas

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
914
I find it weird that there's some people saying "DQ is bad" or "DQ's music is bad" just because the game composer 'a opinion doesn't match theirs or they didn't like his personality

It's like saying GoTG films are bad just because James Gunn was "accused" of Pedophilia
 

Lady Gaia

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,477
Seattle
Ugh. I don't think not buying a game will send a particularly clear message around something like this. He's one member of a broader team who strikes me as odious, but I've worked on a lot of products with people who probably didn't approve of my life. We still pulled together to make something worthwhile together despite our quirks and inconsistencies.

There's something to be said for that.

I worry more when someone is in a creative position where their beliefs shape the product in a way that perpetuates their beliefs, or where their celebrity gives them a platform to spread hate. Do people think that's the case here?
 
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duckroll

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,161
Singapore
Ugh. I don't think not buy a game will send a particularly clear message around something like this. He's one member of a broader team who strikes me as odious, but I've worked on a lot of products with people who probably didn't approve of my life. We still pulled together to make something worthwhile together despite our quirks and inconsistencies.

There's something to be said for that.

I worry more when someone is in a creative position where their beliefs shape the product in a way that perpetuates their beliefs, or where their celebrity gives them a platform to spread hate. Do people think that's the case here?
Guy is a long time far-right nationalist who uses his fame and money to give support to editorials, newspaper ads, and now talk shows which further the nationalist agenda of war crime denial and undermining minority groups. He lobbies for things that hurt people. But okay let's chalk that up to "quirks and inconsistencies". Alright.
 

DNAbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,875
I find it weird that there's some people saying "DQ is bad" or "DQ's music is bad" just because the game composer 'a opinion doesn't match theirs or they didn't like his personality

It's like saying GoTG films are bad just because James Gunn was "accused" of Pedophilia

I thought the music was bad before this.. Him being a shitty person didn't change my opinion that I generally dislike DQ music.
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
Name them then.
Beside the recent Undertale, I can't remember that many good 1st person menu combat unless it is a dungeon crawler game.

Why you put DQ only as 1st person game??? Even DQ9 already played differently with 3rd person view there???

Eartbound, Phantasy Star 3, Glory of Heracles, Lufia. Is some of the game which took a lot from DQ.
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,272
Columbus, OH
Because of DQ story theme and combat system.
If it were the most popular series in the world, a lot of publishers will try to copy the same formula.

I don't even want to think of the potential timeline where other JRPG would use the ugly 1st person menu system over FF 3rd person ATB system.

Out of all the JRPG in that era, like Lufia was the only that did that type of combat system right and better than DQ.

pokemon is super influenced by DQ.
 

Buzzth

Member
Jan 15, 2018
730
Japan
Not going to deny his appalling pro-war activities but I'm curious why do so many think his music is so bad? From my time with DQIV and VIII I would say there is plenty of good music. Isn't he one of Japan's most prolific composers?
 

Anaron

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,645
I see trashs remains trash. He's way past his expiry date.

I don't why people remain surprised by Japan or Square Enix not giving a fuck. They don't care about LGBT at all.
 

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,716
Not going to deny his appalling pro-war activities but I'm curious why do so many think his music is so bad? From my time with DQIV and VIII I would say there is plenty of good music. Isn't he one of Japan's most prolific composers?


Edit: I just realized the MC and horse look photoshopped in on that picture LOL
 

Bran Van

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,540
How does one actually deny Japan's war crimes? Does he think they were all nice guys during their hostile invasion of most of Asia?
 

Midee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,470
CA, USA
As a composer who was influenced by his early DQ music as well as the multitude of Japanese composers he inspired: fuck this asshole and everything he stands for. The world will be a better place once he croaks.

And shame on anyone in this thread trying to paint him as just some crazy grandpa. Dude is straight up villain with a lot of pull.
 

Palazzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,007
Not going to deny his appalling pro-war activities but I'm curious why do so many think his music is so bad? From my time with DQIV and VIII I would say there is plenty of good music. Isn't he one of Japan's most prolific composers?

I think people usually point to his post-8 soundtracks as the weak ones (at least relative to the superb stuff he was putting out beforehand, I haven't heard the later soundtracks so I don't know myself if they are inferior).
 

Iva Demilcol

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,049
Iwatodai Dorm
1) No I do not apply this to every single situation because that would be dumb. This isn't a computer program. This is real life. You take things case by case. But generally speaking wishing death upon someone is fucked up and there are very, very few exceptions. It doesn't always make you an evil human being, but it is fucked up almost always.

2) Do yourself a favor and leave Hitler out of your arguement. bringing Hitler into a discussion just kills any point because it is the biggest extreme you can go to and shows you really have no other argument to make. When someone is trying to talk about morality and then someone else says "yeah but what about Hitler?" it just goes no where. In these moral issues Hitler tend to be the exception to the rule. Congrats you found the loophole. It's Hitler. You scraped the bottom of the barrel for that one. Sugiyama is a terrible, rotten human being, but he is not Hitler. No one is Hitler. There is a special place in hell for someone who laughs at LGBTQ suicide, but it is still fucked up to say "I hope he dies."

3) Even on the Hitler point: wouldn't it have been better to, I don't know, take him in alive? Have him answer for his crimes? It's almost certainly the death penalty so it's a bit redundant and I'm not about to get into a debate on the death penalty, but the point is people were more happy that a dictator was taken out of power and that an evil empire fell than they were about a dude dying. And again to point #2, Hitler was the biggest human piece of trash in history by an immeasurable long shot so he's kind of the exception to the rule and if people were genuinely happy he died and actively rooting for it I would find it hard to say that's fucked up.

I'm not posting about this any more. This is it. I simply said people who were wishing for his death are fucked up. I was and still am a little irked that they weren't warned for wishing death upon someone. I am in no way defending Sugiyama. You cannot interpret otherwise because I am telling you plain and simple that I am not. I do not believe that was an interpretation anyone held, but I'm just covering my bases. He is human garbage. But you don't wish death on people. I am done saying this because I feel that the more I say it the more I align myself with him which I do not intend to do.

if you think wishing death on someone is ok and justifiable then you are wrong.

I know this discussion already cooled down but... I mean, Sugiyama literally supports both morally and financially an organization that literally tries to brush off all the atrocities commited by Hitler's allies...
 
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