-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
I Saw Gal Gadot's Casting as Wonder Woman as a Failure in Body Diversity
- Thread starter Hobbesian Thudercat
- Start date
When they cast a woman with actual muscle mass who can act, as wonder woman (the quintessential Amazonian) all will be right with the franchise. I dug the camp 80's linda blair twirl too but Wonder Woman being a model who just happens to be super ahtletic without any actual physical effort is indeed getting old.
And yeah, like someone else mentioned in the thread, the IDF thing kinda pushed me away from watching the entire film, but that's more a personal matter doesn't hurt the film just my ability to support enjoy it.
And yeah, like someone else mentioned in the thread, the IDF thing kinda pushed me away from watching the entire film, but that's more a personal matter doesn't hurt the film just my ability to support enjoy it.
OP
OP
Whoops! My bad, I admittedly wasn't thinking. But honest question: why are the women in that post considered "scantily clad" and, apparently, not the women in this post?
Yeah, it's not. It just plays on the false notion that all bodybuilders take steroids. Most instagram models aren't even in that category in terms of their physiques.
These are examples of a roided fitness model. Nothing posted in here even approximates this.
OP, your post and discussion pls, comes off to me, as a bunch of men who want to debate about what makes their dicks the hardest all while doing it under the guise of "but feminism (role models for young women)."
Like yeah diversity is good and important but this thread, skimming through it, seems to have devolved into another one of those "but I want women's bodies to look like <x>, and I'm going to talk shit about every other female body that doesn't look like the way I want it to look."
Like yeah diversity is good and important but this thread, skimming through it, seems to have devolved into another one of those "but I want women's bodies to look like <x>, and I'm going to talk shit about every other female body that doesn't look like the way I want it to look."
I'm wading into dangerous territory here. How are we to discuss Wonder Woman's depiction as it specifically relates to her body type without discussing how she looks in a way that doesn't offend the sensibilities of people who find the whole thing to be objectionable?
This is a genuine question asked in sincerity. I'm stating this because this is the internet and things tend to escalate quickly amd intentions are too easily misunderstood.
I read the OP, and I'm gonna come in with my hot take without reading the subsequent 10 pages of posts. Apologies if this is retreading anything old.
I agree with Hobbesian Thudercat, and I appreciate you making this post. I'm a pretty physically strong woman and dammit, I was hoping to see myself represented on the big screen, specifically in this regard. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect anyone cast as freaking Wonder Woman to put on some muscle for the role. I mean Chris Pratt did it. And while I get that it was long overdue to have a woman lead in this genre at all, I also agree with the notion that if there was ever a good time to advocate for normalization of muscular women, this was it, and that chance was missed. For the time being, anyway.
I feel the same way about the Amazons lacking body hair. Why the fuck would they shave their legs. They wouldn't. I can maybe see some of them wanting to shave their armpits, but good lord, not ALL of them. This was a golden opportunity to fight some of the stigma around women not shaving (which, let me tell you, is scary intense), and help empower us in feeling sexy and strong by keeping our bodies the way WE like them. The opportunity was practically gift-wrapped in the form of the WW narrative already containing literal Amazon warrior women, the term "Amazon" already being associated with unshorn women as a pejorative. I mean come oonnnn
I agree with Hobbesian Thudercat, and I appreciate you making this post. I'm a pretty physically strong woman and dammit, I was hoping to see myself represented on the big screen, specifically in this regard. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect anyone cast as freaking Wonder Woman to put on some muscle for the role. I mean Chris Pratt did it. And while I get that it was long overdue to have a woman lead in this genre at all, I also agree with the notion that if there was ever a good time to advocate for normalization of muscular women, this was it, and that chance was missed. For the time being, anyway.
I feel the same way about the Amazons lacking body hair. Why the fuck would they shave their legs. They wouldn't. I can maybe see some of them wanting to shave their armpits, but good lord, not ALL of them. This was a golden opportunity to fight some of the stigma around women not shaving (which, let me tell you, is scary intense), and help empower us in feeling sexy and strong by keeping our bodies the way WE like them. The opportunity was practically gift-wrapped in the form of the WW narrative already containing literal Amazon warrior women, the term "Amazon" already being associated with unshorn women as a pejorative. I mean come oonnnn
You can be fairly lean and still strong as fuck. Powerlifter muscle tends to be more dense than bodybuilder muscle.
I can see what you're saying. I mean, Wonder Woman is from a tribe of immortal warrior women that's been honing their skills in combat for literally thousands of years. Why wouldn't she be buff?
Well, for one, if this conversation is supposed to be about the faithfulness of representation from comics to movies, then it should be about that and not, "my dick thinks women with muscles are so hot." If the thread wants to be about women fearing muscles, then you don't need pictures of women that you (general you) find to be "acceptably muscled," again, in a way that's all about "my dick says this much muscle is acceptable."
All of it can also be discussed without need to constantly put down other body types that don't fit your particular aesthetic, be it "too many muscles," "not enough curves," "too skinny," "not skinny enough," etc.
There's a great discussion to be had about bringing in more body types in Hollywood, and even examples of when a female character could have had the chance to be different but wasn't. That discussion is lost when it becomes a bunch of pictures "hnnggggg this does it for me." It becomes, once again, a discussion about how women should look in order to please the male gaze/penis, and once again, starts to pit different women's bodies against each other.
Right, so if I'm reading this correctly discussion from the viewpoint of 'this comic book character should look like this comic book character in film' can't be expressed with any nuance at all.
Many have written, with examples, that Gal Gadot doesn't look like the character's current comic book portrayal. Generally speaking this hasn't been about the attractiveness of muscle but on what body type might more accurately fit the character's current comic book portrayal.
As a general rule this kind of thread will engender some immaturity but not enough to warrant categorizing the whole discussion as one about the general attractiveness of a particular body type over another.
It might be helpful to think of it in this way: imagine the actor who played skinny Steve Rogers stayed Captain America for all of the remaining movies. His physical presence wouldn't match up to his portrayal in the comics. That's all we're talking about.
Add in Viriditas' post, a woman who works out and can appreciate the OP's point, and I don't think you can correctly categorize the discussion as you have.
Edited for spelling.
Last edited:
I agree with you, they should have casted someone who's a bit more muscular and not a starving skinny model who looks like she can't even bench 50lbs.
They also need to get rid of the high heels in the wonder woman costume. it's just not practical to jump and run on those things.
They also need to get rid of the high heels in the wonder woman costume. it's just not practical to jump and run on those things.
Here's the problem with Bridgette, or anyone else who's muscular: Have they acted? Can they act? Do they have screen presence? Does she have an agent in Hollywood? Is she actively seeking to be a movie star?
If answer to any of this is no, then she will have a hard time.
I think Gal Gadot works. Maybe she'll put on some muscle, but I don't think she has beyond what she did for WW and Justice League.
If answer to any of this is no, then she will have a hard time.
I think Gal Gadot works. Maybe she'll put on some muscle, but I don't think she has beyond what she did for WW and Justice League.
When the announced Wonder Woman I thought (altho unlikely) that this person from Thor 2 would be perfect (I dont know her name)
I still think she could probably be better but iv warmed up to Gal tho, I dont need Wonder Woman to be as muscular as Batman that's just not what she looks like and doesn't need to look beefed up (doesnt need to look a like a toothpick either!)
I still think she could probably be better but iv warmed up to Gal tho, I dont need Wonder Woman to be as muscular as Batman that's just not what she looks like and doesn't need to look beefed up (doesnt need to look a like a toothpick either!)
Sort of related: I was also disappointed when netherrealm went with more "realistic" body types for the women in MK X because of fan feedback. They went from strong looking women who could kick ass in MK 9 to "Yea, I do yoga and pilates on the weekends" in MK X.
With regards to gal as ww, I was disappointed at first to hear that she got the role. But I didn't mind as much when the movie came out. It would have been great to have a more muscular woman get the role but I can't really think of anyone else who would fit that requirement.
With regards to gal as ww, I was disappointed at first to hear that she got the role. But I didn't mind as much when the movie came out. It would have been great to have a more muscular woman get the role but I can't really think of anyone else who would fit that requirement.
OP
OP
She's completely mischaracterized the point and is dragging you along for the ride. The point has little to do with "what makes my dick hard" and "faithful representation and more to do with "This was a missed opportunity to provide an underrepresented group of women a chance to make an impression on a broad scale".
Yeah, I might find some muscular women attractive just like any other type of woman (I find some overweight women attractive, Asian women attractive, trans women/men attractive, etc.); but that's a red herring in the face of what should clearly be the broader point by now.
Some just don't want to accept that there may actually be a point there due to whatever projection they feel fit to cast. Even if those projections were accurate, it's still a distraction from that broader point and plays into liberal's/Era's obsession with digging for "Gotcha!" purity test material over actually advancing these kinds of discussion with care.
It's pathetic.
The only reason I brought myself into the equation is to show why this particular form of representation is meaningful to me, in hopes to attach some form of humanity to it. That was obviously a mistake.
Last edited:
In his entire OP there was literally just one sentence about him thinking muscular women can be beautiful, and it wasn't even defined solely in terms of physical attraction. You're mischaracterizing the entire argument and thread just to dismiss it, presumably because you disagree or don't think a guy should be posting on this subject
*shrug*
If you believe there's no nuance to be parsed from my explanation, then we can agree to disagree.
From my skimming of the thread, and OP, it didn't come across as "that's not what she looks like in <x> edition." Especially with all the pictures that are being posted, etc. Not to mention the odd line about OP's mom and what that has to do with... well, nothing that you're saying this discussion is "actually" about.
We can also disagree on whether or not the discussion revolves around "what is physically attractive to me," which also seems to come across as "<x> is better than <y>." That's certainly the impression I got from it.
Thank you for pointing out to me, a woman, that Viriditas, another woman, has shared her views. Shockingly, we can both be women and come away with different thoughts.
OP
OP
Look, as I've said before: It wouldn't surprised if some of those women take steroids. It's fair to remain skeptical. But those physiques are definitely possible for women without them and suggesting that they're not, just spreads misinformation at best and demotivates people at worst. So it's better to give someone the benefit of the doubt IMO if they claim they aren't using.
That said, where are the receipts for the bolded?
Thanks for the show of support! And lol at the bolded. I actually think that would have been pretty cool. No make up, and dirtier aesthetics would have been cool to see as well. A huge peeve of mine in blockbuster films is actors looking way too clean when shit's going down, especially after doing things like diving or rolling in the dirt. A cut happens and the actress/actor pops up in the center of the shot clean as whistle, makeup unscathed. So damned annoying.
This. Her looks aren't the problem though she does come off a scrawny Wonder Woman. I always thought her acting was horrible no matter the movie. And beyond that, her tone of voice. It's like her delivery of many lines doesn't convey the same confidence that Wonder Woman should have.
When the announced Wonder Woman I thought (altho unlikely) that this person from Thor 2 would be perfect (I dont know her name)
I still think she could probably be better but iv warmed up to Gal tho, I dont need Wonder Woman to be as muscular as Batman that's just not what she looks like and doesn't need to look beefed up (doesnt need to look a like a toothpick either!)
Her problem was that they didn't want generic white girl for the part. Warner Brothers Wanted Foreign born actresses with accents over 5'9.
The Thor 2 girl fails to meet all their base requirements.
What I'm saying is without willfully missing the point this discussion isn't inherently offensive. Accepting that, your argument becomes disingenuous at best. At worst it's willfully ignorant and in bad faith.
Citing Viriditas' opinion wasn't intended to show uniformity of viewpoint among women. It was intended to expose your assumption that this discussion was exclusive to people with, in your words, 'hard [phalli]' was false and intollerant.
It seems you never intended to have an honest discussion about this and that, as such, you've argued in bad faith.
That said the real-world consequences of misogyny are such that seeing it everywhere, even where it's not intended, is understandable.
No hard feelings.
Edited because mobile keyboard is tiny.
if thats what they wanted then yeah it wouldnt have worked altho accent can be done with some prep time which im sure gal had as well. Like I said tho I would have liked it but I didnt think it was gonna happen.
I'd say your criticism should be aimed more at the character herself than at the casting. Wonder Woman, and the amazons as a whole, are generally portrayed as supermodel looking women. I even remember in her animated film the amazon are called by a military officer "an army of supermodels". That said, there are bulky versions of the character, definitely. So in that sense you're right that the film allowed for the possibility of a stronger woman taking the role.
That "army of supermodels" though wasn't a description of their body shapes, just that they made all of them ridiculously attractive.
She was a coincidentally a sports/fitness trainer during her two year consignment in the IDF, there are different body shapes and physiques as well as a difference between bodybuilders and fitness models, I think the whole body builder thing would've been bad but a more athletic build, similar to a track and field Olympian or a cross fit athlete would've worked well visually but finding someone to fit that and a whole bunch of other criteria, including being able to at least somewhat act would've been hard especially when also throwing in the height requirement, casting someone who has experience acting and giving them a trainer is easier. As for the muscle mass thing, well yeah being "jacked" could be counter productive but again it's not really about being big muscles but a more physically looking athletic shape and is kind of irrelevant for a movie that's combat is entirely choreographed. Gal did what she could to put on muscle but I really doubt the 17 pounds of muscle she added brought her up to 145 pounds, she lost some body fat (from where I'm not sure) if she was really 128 pounds at the time she started. Though again, Gal was never going to come close to what a lot of us had as an expectation and it's not her fault, someone with the standard banana/standard supermodel body shape isn't going to turn themselves into a potentially physically imposing presence, it's not like she was going to be able to broaden her shoulders. Could broaden her acting range though.
Megan Gale who was cast in the Justice League movie that thankfully never made it out was pretty much perfect in terms of look and I'm sure she would've looked amazing in the role after six months with a personal trainer.
She was a coincidentally a sports/fitness trainer during her two year consignment in the IDF, there are different body shapes and physiques as well as a difference between bodybuilders and fitness models, I think the whole body builder thing would've been bad but a more athletic build, similar to a track and field Olympian or a cross fit athlete would've worked well visually but finding someone to fit that and a whole bunch of other criteria, including being able to at least somewhat act would've been hard especially when also throwing in the height requirement, casting someone who has experience acting and giving them a trainer is easier. As for the muscle mass thing, well yeah being "jacked" could be counter productive but again it's not really about being big muscles but a more physically looking athletic shape and is kind of irrelevant for a movie that's combat is entirely choreographed. Gal did what she could to put on muscle but I really doubt the 17 pounds of muscle she added brought her up to 145 pounds, she lost some body fat (from where I'm not sure) if she was really 128 pounds at the time she started. Though again, Gal was never going to come close to what a lot of us had as an expectation and it's not her fault, someone with the standard banana/standard supermodel body shape isn't going to turn themselves into a potentially physically imposing presence, it's not like she was going to be able to broaden her shoulders. Could broaden her acting range though.
Megan Gale who was cast in the Justice League movie that thankfully never made it out was pretty much perfect in terms of look and I'm sure she would've looked amazing in the role after six months with a personal trainer.
Last edited:
*She
It takes one second to click a profile and see the person's gender. In a gender topic like this, where, I'm sure, you'd welcome women's perspective, perhaps it would be a good idea to check the profile of the poster who is taking mild issue with your posts. Just a thought.
*shrugs* I thought she had a point, especially after that post full of pictures. You (and others in this thread) came across as just being thirsty to many posters despite your claims of otherwise. I'm glad that wasn't your intention (and I do believe you), but dismissing as "pathetic", "purity tests", "gotcha!", etc. the gentlest, mildest of criticism to your approach is... hmm, what's the word? Fragile, perhaps. It's not like Pet even dismissed your point entirely.
Her disagreement was not bad faith. Stop it.
Where are the receipts Carrie June offers meal plans????
Don't tell me that girls can stay lean and ripped with good muscle mass year round. Even if you're a dude you have to dabble in steroids to keep the physique up like that.
Those girls are business and they're selling a brand, just because you believe some girls can get shredded and grow lean muscle, grow insane quads in a couple of years, having abs year round is on you.
There's a difference n In the megsquats and the Dana Lynn baileys of the world.
Really? Ability to act? Primarily? So there must be some coincidences. I see very very good looking people in movies. Strange. Some don't act really good. Really strange.
Well, some directors have different priorities
https://www.flickeringmyth.com/2017...-washing-michael-bays-car-while-he-filmed-it/
I think there's some truth to this. Remember Chyna? Her physique was muscled like the ops girl, and she admitted to steroid use.
Steroids and science have evolved past that, now women can take steroids that don't have nearly the amount of side effects that can cause the more masculine look. A lot of people associate the really hardcore hulk look as the only way steroids can make you look. I mean the dead give away if you don't know what you're running if you're a female is the voice dropping some octaves.I think there's some truth to this. Remember Chyna? Her physique was muscled like the ops girl, and she admitted to steroid use.
Look up mike o'Hearn or ulissesworld for dudes who look like gods come to life and are deep into steroids yet don't look absurdly bloated and big. Same concept for women, if you wanna break the mold for muscle development of what the female body is naturally limited to you're gonna have to be taking a serious amount of hormones.
Highly debatable. I honestly think you might be skating over this issue just a little too slickly.
It's all well and good to demand better representation for built women but you are talking about Wonder Woman here - a character held up as the quintessential fictional role model for younger women. Casting someone whose physique tests the limits of natural achievement (read: it probably isn't natural) doesn't strike me as a useful step towards promoting positive body images among young women.
For the record, I also think that questions need to be asked about how the current era of male celebrity physiques is correlated to the rise of body dysmorphia among men and dramatic increases in steroid use in Western countries.
I'll never agree to glorify clearly unnatural bodies acquired with the help of peds (those thighs, smh). That shit's unhealthy and already too damn pervasive with male actors.
More muscular than Gal Gadot, sure, that's worth a discussion. That her casting downright makes for a 'failure in diversity' sounds hyperbolic, though.
More muscular than Gal Gadot, sure, that's worth a discussion. That her casting downright makes for a 'failure in diversity' sounds hyperbolic, though.