Are you trying to say you want them gone so this can be a safe space for your views?
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Era's Woman Problem (Read OP)
- Thread starter Persephone
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Are you trying to say you want them gone so this can be a safe space for your views?
I'm not sure if it's primarily that; we tend not to go through people's histories to see if it's inconsistency and just assume that if we see multiple posts saying the similar things, they're same as another group of posts saying similar things. It might be two different groups.
In the case of Era, there's the issue that a bunch of people moved over because they were genuinely disgusted at what the admin did... then you have another group that sees their favourite gaming communities becoming too empty, and decides to tag along even though they don't care themselves.
I see.
I had no clue what you originally meant due to the entire context of this thread. That's me assuming that you have read the same posts I've read, and that's a bad assumption.
To clarify, I guess, we know specifically who many of the bad actors were on NeoGAF (bisoptl, Amirox, Opiate, etc.)
We also know that the moderation policy was more direct yet lazy (the Wrassle-GAF example upthread around page 5) and led to a lot of confusion. And I'm still confused with how Evilore handled the PopGAF community toward the end of the site.
Basically, I thought that point was implicit. (And I also didn't mean to imply that I thought the moderation was "really, really bad.")
Late to the thread... Persephone , thank you for bringing attention to these things.
Men, just shut up and listen. Okay?
Men, just shut up and listen. Okay?
If your talking about other threads I agree with you on that and your post starts to make more sense. Originally I was just genuinely surprised at your post because as I was reading this thread it seemed like people were willing to discuss with dialogue about what was going on.
Of course in this thread you have a few people being insensitive or drive by shit posts but sadly that's everywhere in life.
I largely have three thoughts on it.
1> Many people were turned off by GAF's front as being a "progressive" forum that, strangely enough, constantly had problematic and heavy handed leadership.
2> Evilore's behavior galvanized the two sides of the debate. Whatever "progressive" elements that remained on GAF had no reason to actually stay there as the Alt Right shitheads who previously despised GAF suddenly had sympathy for it and Evilore due to the political situation that was then surrounding him. So GAF started looking like KiA and 4chan and since decent people don't want to be part of that they came here.
3> Majority of people don't know enough of the backstory to tell you one way or the other. They seem more activity on ERA than on GAF so they stick to ERA. If you know that developer interaction moved from GAF to ERA then you have another reason to migrate.
It is an oddity that has found its way into some online discourse
Talking about women as females sounds like you are talking about a different species.
Look at that female over there sounds like look at that female *insert animal species*
It just sounds demeaning.
Never heard it outside of the internet though.
Progressive space?
The end result was multiple folks in mainstream media tripping over themselves to shit on the lady and proclaim she was killing MeToo and it was just bad sex... which was also rampant here... meanwhile many of the people you claim weren't having the debate very much fucking were.
I know this because I was probably the most active participant.
I cannot imagine someone interested in progressive discussion to choose to come to a sub-board of a video-game forum to have it.
Like, my Mom might read Metafilter, she's not going to go to Resetera.
Honestly Reddit can be a more progressive place than Era if we're cutting up dot-coms into their requisite subforums.
The way you said it was like "well leave then", while not trying to understand a minority wanting it a little bit better
I feel like everyone saying "this IS the most progressive place for gaming discourse" is misrepresenting what it takes to achieve that. This site is considered extremely liberal because moderation doesn't tolerate obvious trolling, racism, use of SJWs as a pejorative, misogyny, etc. Even then, the discourse when it comes to women & minority in video games inevitably reach the "why? things are fine just the way they are" phase. Same when it comes to portrayal of women in Japanese games. Same when it comes to fanservice. Hell, same when it comes to anything political. Just because people get banned when they mention how badly they want to fuck an anime girl who's 15 but has DDs doesn't make it a bastion of progressive thought. Frankly, the unending shitshow that happens when politics meets gaming is proof enough that this place is progressive for gamers, but not progressive for average folks.
All they said was that ERA isn't a safe space. You're projecting the idea that they asked for something better, and ignoring any room for improvement even if it is a safe space. Your post is an unfortunately comical way to show that it isn't one if we can't even question that.
I am a member on quite a few gaming forums, and the general consensus on them all is that ERA is a left leaning echo chamber. Active discussion (of politics not video games) doesn't seem like its encouraged, and moderation seems heavy handed. Disagreeing with the general left/progressive view of the forum is likely to get you a ban. It does make it difficult to get a true two sided discussion of anything here. I understand the need for keeping the alt-right out of here, but its can seem excessive at times.
But its a gaming forum, so its not like its really THAT huge of a deal. Its still one of the best gaming forums (if not the best) out there, and I would rather have it be more progressive than swing to far to the right.
But its a gaming forum, so its not like its really THAT huge of a deal. Its still one of the best gaming forums (if not the best) out there, and I would rather have it be more progressive than swing to far to the right.
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Yes. Plenty of safe spaces for privileged white men with horse blinders on I'm sure they are more than welcome at if they feel threatened by people standing up for human rights.
I'm all for treating people with respect, but that shouldn't mean that I can't challenge their views. Partaking in a discussion where I can state my views and receive counter arguments is often very helpful in understanding their point. More so than if I would just jump in and cheer on even if I didn't completely get their argument at first.
Really? Where did you post it? I'm pretty sure I was never banned for disliking it.
Isn't this just thread-whining?
"If you don't like it, you can leave"
Ok
Sounds good. I can definitely do that. I'll work to call that shit out where I see it too.
Absolutely nailed it.
The rest of your post was spot on too but I'm just quoting this line because I'll be stealing it in future.
It is a bit of a head scratcher when you see someone banned for having history of racism/sexism and then seeing "duration: 1 week." There's probably a good reason for it I'm guessing, but it's still confusing as fuck to see.
In terms of this site being more left than others, I see it as other sites is like wading through shit sewer water that reaches your chest where as here it's reaching your ankles. Gaming side can be laughably bad.
In terms of this site being more left than others, I see it as other sites is like wading through shit sewer water that reaches your chest where as here it's reaching your ankles. Gaming side can be laughably bad.
YIKES... I guess I know why it's better that I rarely visit the gaming side..
User Banned (24 hours): Antagonizing other members
I'll probably get banned for calling a specific poster out, but whatever! Look at the posting history of someone like mod edit: name removed.
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It sounds like you're talking about animals or something.
If you said "look at that male over there" or "males are always acting like...", does it sound weird to you? Does it sound like you're talking about humans, or like you're talking about animals or aliens?
Too many people drop into threads, sound their dog whistle, and when questioned they ignore and slink off waiting for the next opportunity.
There should be a crack down on dropping a take with certain language (alt-right style buzzwords as Spirit mentions above) and not coming back to respond to posts that question it.
And half the time these posts don't even get dog pilled, they get a couple of users calling them out and asking for receipts and the user ghosts the thread.
Should be bannable, imo.
And Era is full of little microaggressions like this. As such I think moderations needs to ramp up heavily against any kind of post with a bigoted tone, and in the instances mentioned above force the user in question to either offer recipes or take the ban.
There should be a crack down on dropping a take with certain language (alt-right style buzzwords as Spirit mentions above) and not coming back to respond to posts that question it.
And half the time these posts don't even get dog pilled, they get a couple of users calling them out and asking for receipts and the user ghosts the thread.
Should be bannable, imo.
And Era is full of little microaggressions like this. As such I think moderations needs to ramp up heavily against any kind of post with a bigoted tone, and in the instances mentioned above force the user in question to either offer recipes or take the ban.
100% this.
The idea of this being a "progressive" forum even on the scale of the Internet is a complete joke. It doesn't even come close to talking the talk, much less walking the walk.
Is this for real? Do people on here actually say this? I agree with you that moderation isn't harsh enough btw.
Guys...(I would say gals as well but I'm 1000% sure it's only guys making the comments I'm about to address) saying we're better than the rest of the internet when it comes to progressivism doesn't really mean shit. If we're really the best of them, and women on here are still noticing this shit it's pretty troubling. Why not want to be better than what we are now, should we just become complacent because we aren't Reddit or 4chan? Brehs.
It's this kind of lack of self-awareness and introspection that makes us overlook things that do not make minorities feel welcome in the first place. As a black dude I see it all the time in my personal life, work life, and etc. We can be better. The whole "women are more emotional than men trope" may be horseshit, but the thing about men having brittle egos is so true. Comes with the privilege of having the status quo for so long.
Question your motives always.
It's this kind of lack of self-awareness and introspection that makes us overlook things that do not make minorities feel welcome in the first place. As a black dude I see it all the time in my personal life, work life, and etc. We can be better. The whole "women are more emotional than men trope" may be horseshit, but the thing about men having brittle egos is so true. Comes with the privilege of having the status quo for so long.
Question your motives always.
Just the type of post I expect from an analytics man like yourself.
Pretty much, but that is the thing, people are saying that in the context that this is a gaming forum. I don't think, least I hope people aren't saying that this is a progressive site out of that context.
In terms of what can help, more threads like this. Where people can engage and learn something.
Unfortunately I don't think perfection is possible, Era is simply too big for it to be a fully welcoming forum where no one is ever made to feel demeaned. No amount of moderation can completely and justly deter and ban all offensive content, though the current relatively transparent system is certainly more effective than most. The way we need to move forward is not easy, because it involves changing the culture here, of how users treat one another and approach potentially sensitive topics, and that is not something that can simply be fixed through moderation alone. I hope we continue to push for inclusivity though, through whatever form it takes. While talking about games seems to inevitably devolve into console warrior senseless vitriol, almost no matter where you go and who you talk to (It continues to be a fundamental flaw of the medium that we are only barely taking baby steps out of as professional criticism slowly grows more serious and influential), I know that we can continue to improve, bit by bit, even if that gradual improvement is slower than we would like.
Era is one of the most progressive places to talk about games, but I don't think I would call it, or any forum, progressive. I think we end up running into structural problems, where the design of talking semi-anonymously to people represented by small avatars is separated from the inherent empathy and nuance that may be necessary for most constructive, progressive conversation to exist. In a semi-anonymous situation it often feels like conversations fall into individuals misreading each others' tone and thus misunderstanding one another or failing to see and empathize with the situation of the other users. I hope there's some way to overcome it, but I don't think there's an easy solution, if there's one at all
Era is one of the most progressive places to talk about games, but I don't think I would call it, or any forum, progressive. I think we end up running into structural problems, where the design of talking semi-anonymously to people represented by small avatars is separated from the inherent empathy and nuance that may be necessary for most constructive, progressive conversation to exist. In a semi-anonymous situation it often feels like conversations fall into individuals misreading each others' tone and thus misunderstanding one another or failing to see and empathize with the situation of the other users. I hope there's some way to overcome it, but I don't think there's an easy solution, if there's one at all
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Bish went on a ban spree where he was litterally banning anyone he disagreed with
If there is one thing that's clear, it's that different people have VERY different ideas about what the purpose of this place is.
Some seem to be looking for a safe space where they can freely discuss their issues without being challenged and questioned, and others on here are looking for interesting debate and being challenged and pushed on ideas.
I have an idea. I don't know if it's feasible, but would it make sense to make a subforum that is intended as a safe space that has heavier moderation and zero tolerance for anything questionable, and then a more generalized forum side that is more open to debate and different lines of thinking?
Because right now it seems like it's trying to be two incongruous things at once.
Some seem to be looking for a safe space where they can freely discuss their issues without being challenged and questioned, and others on here are looking for interesting debate and being challenged and pushed on ideas.
I have an idea. I don't know if it's feasible, but would it make sense to make a subforum that is intended as a safe space that has heavier moderation and zero tolerance for anything questionable, and then a more generalized forum side that is more open to debate and different lines of thinking?
Because right now it seems like it's trying to be two incongruous things at once.
I like to think I'm a open minded guy. I really like this site.
If I ever make a mistake, I want someone to come up to me and tell me. I prolly don't even realize I messed up. Lol
I always try to stand up for what's right and what I believe in.
If I ever make a mistake, I want someone to come up to me and tell me. I prolly don't even realize I messed up. Lol
I always try to stand up for what's right and what I believe in.
Noted.
I guess there's something to be said about silent acknowledgement. I'm fairly certain the person I quoted and I aren't the only ones at all.
This was basically my point, but summarized and outlined more succinctly.
Everyone reasonable was "forced" off GAF. There was no other option whether they held progressive views or not.
I've gone so far as to pretend I was a boy in most places where voice chat wasn't required. The second a lot of men hear a woman in discord/mumble or party chat and you're at risk of being flooded with rape threats and dick pics. Is it any wonder we stay quiet?
And even in discussion forums disgusting shitheads on sites like 4chan and voat are just fucking waiting to attack us and threaten our lives. It's much easier just to be invisible.
Because this place is less alt right than them and they don't want any place to be that
Which is why there's like 3 places or more that actively track this forum and troll it and harass posters in hopes of pushing the forum to the right.
Search pulls up 15+ results in this thread alone for "male"
I dont want to take this off topic though, just pointing out why its not so open and shut, and how banning someone for coming in with a different take would be a disservice to the forum.
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