'it's predicated on neoliberal economics, and favours corporations over the people' (boxoctosis)
Oh is that so?
Oh is that so?
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EU warns its citizens to prepare for the worst [No Deal Brexit]
- Thread starter Sabin
- Start date
"I won't back down to world leaders because I don't know who they are and I'm not willing to learn."
Oh my god, groundskeeper Willie would vote for Trump lmao
Yeah that whole rhetoric was ridiculous. It was straight out of a Monty Python sketch
"Don't know what all the fuss is about with jumping off cliffs. I decided to jump off this one right here and I turned out alright."
"But you haven't jumped off the cliff yet!"
"Yes I did. You just saw me do it."
Brexit was a protest vote, not unlike Trump's election.
It doesn't matter that said protest will effectively throw the country into the hands of people like Mogg and whatever you call the British version of oligarchs, because it was a reaction born out of profound discontent, fear and nostalgia. It's nearly impossible to convince people with such strong beliefs that they were wrong, but specially since Remainers offer nothing of value to them. Single market? They already had that and it was deemed of no use. Freedom of movement? That just means more migrants next door. Common regulations? You are talking like a (((globalist))) now.
And then you have the accelerationist faction. They just want the country burn so it can be rebuilt anew. It's not like they won't accept that they may be wrong --- they long for a complete upheaval of the system, and if that means that the UK needs to be destroyed as we know it, so be it.
For each Leaver that can be turned into a Remainer, there may be another that will become even more hardcore about pushing through Brexit, damn the consequences. And given that there's not going to be a second vote, that only means that there's a significant chance of an increasingly beligerent minority dictating the outcome.
It doesn't matter that said protest will effectively throw the country into the hands of people like Mogg and whatever you call the British version of oligarchs, because it was a reaction born out of profound discontent, fear and nostalgia. It's nearly impossible to convince people with such strong beliefs that they were wrong, but specially since Remainers offer nothing of value to them. Single market? They already had that and it was deemed of no use. Freedom of movement? That just means more migrants next door. Common regulations? You are talking like a (((globalist))) now.
And then you have the accelerationist faction. They just want the country burn so it can be rebuilt anew. It's not like they won't accept that they may be wrong --- they long for a complete upheaval of the system, and if that means that the UK needs to be destroyed as we know it, so be it.
For each Leaver that can be turned into a Remainer, there may be another that will become even more hardcore about pushing through Brexit, damn the consequences. And given that there's not going to be a second vote, that only means that there's a significant chance of an increasingly beligerent minority dictating the outcome.
both have been steadily increasing, rent more so, I don't think Brexit will have an affect on it.
That's great for me then
As I'm planning to rent my place out for a very long time and get quite alot of money from it. Was thinking with Brexit rent would go down as there will be less Europeans and majority of my Tennant's are Europeans who are willing to pay a lot of rent.
Will still hold off before buying another property. I'm planning to buy another property to rent out but just in case Brexit causes a crash in rent prices due to less people wanting to be in the UK I won't take that risk yet.
See Funky Papa's post above, that's a pretty good explanation.
But basically you have a mixture between people who want the Muslim family down the road to go (they won't), people who think the EU was too overbearing because of bendy bananas and other bullshit like that, people who don't care about the EU but just want to "stick it to the man" and Joker-types who just wanted to cause chaos. All of these groups put together made a slim majority in the referendum and, thus, we're now careening straight off the cliff's edge into no-deal Brexit based primarily on "the will of the people."
Though that's the voters; in the government Brexit is being seen as an opportunity to get rid of pesky things such as human rights, consumer protection and proper trading standards. They know that Brexit will fuck over most everyone but they've got enough of a cushion to fall on that they can instead focus on using Brexit for their own political gain.
I'm looking to buy my first house, though thinking I'll wait till after brexit (in a two years or so) as feel there will be a crash when it actually happens and there is no deal.
I do wish someone in power would realise this is a bad idea and reverse course but that doesn't look like it would ever happen.
It's not just political gain. When I listen to people like Mogg I feel dead certain that they want to throw the UK into chaos so they can quarter its economy like literal oligarchs, minus the gunfights of Yeltsin-era Russia.
There's a lot of money to be made from a catastrophic Brexit, not to mention a lot of scores to settle.
There's a lot of money to be made from a catastrophic Brexit, not to mention a lot of scores to settle.
I think they were saying you'll have to go further than Ireland to escape brexit, not revelling in it.
It's the same dynamics as Trump. Except actually it's far worse.
Many didn't think Remain would lose, they protest voted.
Labour voters in the North protested voted against the Tories
Most areas outside of London protest voted against London.
30% of the electorate is racist is fuck.
Three decades of a media hate campaign conducted by Murdoch and other Press barons against the EU, perpetuated myths and fairy tales. The oldest in society are the biggest victims because they still consume print media in volume.
The Syrian refugee crisis and powerful optics of thousands at the EU border in Eastern Europe allowed an effective use of Nazi propaganda (literal copy of Goebbels poster).
The Leave side decided not to deal in facts or a plan and just promised everything. The media both sides the shit out it. This was especially criminal.
However those think a second referendum wouldn't be different, Remain is outside of margin of error on Survation. The other side has been blown open for what it is, you only have the mentals and racists left, they can't get to 50%.
I think it's best to wait atleast 2byears see what the full affects of Brexit will be.
The house prices are already insane now and I would be gutted if they dropped after just putting down so much for a house now. At the same time they should drop for first time buyers, it's definitely a gray area.
All I know is there are so many people making money from Europeans on rent. If we don't get as many Europeans post Brexit and a ton of big companies bailing which could potentially mean less people wanting to be in the UK, which would mean less demand of renting, which would then mean lower rent prices which could then lead to lower house prices.
It's definitely unpredictable what will happen to the housing market depending on if it's a no deal Brexit.
Also with no deal Brexit banks can potentially raise interest prices on mortgages which could also lead to house prices lowering.
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Yeah, forgot to mention monetary gain there. Brexit is going to become a textbook example of Disaster capitalism, that's for sure.
I also forgot to mention Corbyn who isn't in it for direct political or monetary gain but because he wants to obtain the Guiness World Record of being the most useful idiot in the history of useful idiots. It's an admirable goal, shame it involves handing over the country to Mogg and Johnson.
Thank you for coming forward, at the end.
1. I'll give you, that some of the expansions are a little hasty but the numbers are getting bigger and therefore the EU's soft- and hard-power on the international stage, making the life better for EU citizens.
2. The EU is the most consumer-friendly super-power that takes a stance against monopolies and anti-consumer practices of corporations who have other superpowers, like the US in their pockets.
3. The handling of Greece was part of a) never should have let Greece into the Euro with fudged accounts, b)grandstanding against market hysteria c)a game of chicken that greece lost.
4. Show me your time machine where the UK is doing better in the last 40 years outside the EU. The past narrative was, that integrating into the EU saved the UK's economy.
5. Hey I give you that, A united Ireland and independent Scotland
User Warned: Personal attack.
I absolutely wasn't revelling in it you massive judgemental arsehole. I was genuinely advising that if you want to escape the ill effects of Brexit you will have to travel further than Ireland. Jesus Christ some of the people on this forum...
Heh. I just can't imagine the UK following (more) stringent antitrust rules.
Irish here, can confirm we will be fucked by hard Brexit, and by any Brexit really. Dunno why people are jumping down your throat for saying so.
Gonna be very interesting times here for sure in the next few years; there is an argument that Ireland could actually profit from Brexit if it was played right but IMO it's sorta like the Brexiteers notion that Britain will leverage the situation to its advantage, ie it's a kind of bullshit jingoism; "Lets be super smart an' profit, 'cause the rest of the world is idiots!".
I could not recommend Ireland as a safe space. Go to Canada, or Oz.
I'm at a loss to work out how on earth 2 could be put at the feet of the EU.
As someone who lives in one of those areas neglected I can tell you that it was neglected well before the EU had any influence (and for what it's worth the EU has put massive amount of money into deprived areas).
The prosperity of the South East over the rest of the UK sits very much at the feet of progressive UK governments doing next to nothing about it... and it's only going to get worse after Brexit (because they'll be desperate to keep London as a powerhouse).
As someone who lives in one of those areas neglected I can tell you that it was neglected well before the EU had any influence (and for what it's worth the EU has put massive amount of money into deprived areas).
The prosperity of the South East over the rest of the UK sits very much at the feet of progressive UK governments doing next to nothing about it... and it's only going to get worse after Brexit (because they'll be desperate to keep London as a powerhouse).
My wife is a Walsh with family in Kilkenny. It is a source of profound shame that this act of idiocy will inflict pain to so many others.
From my perspective you voted to perpetuate a status quo that damages an awful lot of people in the long run.
I'm sure we'll be fine in 50 years though, so all good on the Brexit front.
Honestly, even if you truly believed it was for longer term gain I can't understand why any of you would choose to damage the country / its people in this way (especially given your only reasonable point was 3... which is about to happen to us).
Honestly, even if you truly believed it was for longer term gain I can't understand why any of you would choose to damage the country / its people in this way (especially given your only reasonable point was 3... which is about to happen to us).
I don't understand how Corbyn can look at right wing media's deathgrip leading to Brexit and then assume that he'd be able to push the country further left than it would be under the EU. Half of your country voted to cut off their largest trade partners despite the warning of experts in every field imaginable whose predictions were obvious and are continually proving accurate with every passing month. Shouldn't this terrify anyone even remotely to the left? Shouldn't this demonstrate that the EU was actually one of the few things protecting labor rights, consumer protections, and environmental regulations in the UK? Your constituents voted to blow a massive hole in the UK's economy because of mindless xenophobia, why the fuck wouldn't they allow any nationalist movement to erase all of these lesser things at a moments notice under the promise of less brown people? It boggles the mind.
It's total horseshit and nothing but Russian anti-EU propaganda for self-identified leftist too stupid to see the forest for the trees.
Every single well run government is somewhat pro corporate ( which boils down to literally " pro good economy "). The EU is by far the best at enacting consumer protection on the world stage bar none. Accusing the EU as being against the small man and only in it to support big multinationals ( like the Republican Party) is such a gross mischaracterisation and shows a remarkable lack of perspective and an appalling misunderstanding how the real world works.
All signs point to house market crash and another 10 years of financial crisis, this isn't related to Brexit, just shit bank practices. Again.
I don't know about that. There is a slowdown in the housing market and property developers are selling stock at huge discounts, but I don't think we'll see a significant crash. Prices are already starting to slowly rebound (emphasis on the slowly), the main reason for the slowdown is the uncertainty. Come March and a potential no deal, we'll see a huge dip, but I don't believe the 'bubble' will burst in terms of house prices.
It boggles the mind that any so-called left wing person could support Brexit given the throbbing erections that are currently being sported by people like Mogg
If they get the hard Brexit like they want, poor people will not be better off
Hopefully not. I'm due to remortgage in March and currently I should be able to get it as low as £350 p/m which will be fantastic.
We're looking at a one off 4% GDP hit says the ERSI. That's one years growth spread over ten years*. Its a bump in the road not brexitamegdon.
*It will be front loaded so most of the hit at first then petering off over the course of the decade.
Sure, in the short term instead the food stocks are massively appealing.
For someone that is "expert in economy" you sure spend little time explaining how your dream of equality and the bad EU can work from an economic perspective.
To not mention the breaking of the actual UK, but then again, what would I know about that considering that you surely have studies that back up your point. Right?
i'm actually terrified of what'll happen to us once we leave. i don't think many people realise just yet how bad it can get. i voted to stay and so did the rest of scotland.
i can only hope that by some miracle we can halt this or that we will get another shot at becoming an independent country. if this government is going to go ahead with brexit then i don't want to be part of it anymore.
i can only hope that by some miracle we can halt this or that we will get another shot at becoming an independent country. if this government is going to go ahead with brexit then i don't want to be part of it anymore.
isn't corbyn little finger in the brexit OT? you know, king of the ashes and all of that.
Remain is a centre-left position for the most part if you look at the aggregate of the votes. Leave is your typical racist far right position. The problem is some Labour voters (c.25-30%) have gone so far off the reservation that they have fallen for the lies. Then there is a very small and I mean very small contingent of complete idiots who believe Brexit will bring a socialist utopia. These people are insufferable mainly because they should know better.
The mistake Labour make today is assume that the 25-50% of idiots hate the EU more than they hate the Tories. A Labour leader should be spelling out the reality: Brexit means the complete destruction of the manufacturing in this country and will do horrendous damage to the NHS whilst simultaneously harming the long-run potential of the economy and opening us up to the worst excesses of vulture capitalism. These are OBVIOUS things. Instead Corybn is regurgitating frivolous talking points made up by the parasites/nutjobs on the ERG which are complete lies.
Problem is, Centre Left Blairite politics never delivered those (Labour voting) people the utopia they were promised in 97. This is why the Torys are managing to regain ground this past 10 years, when it looked like they would never get back in power in the early 2000's, the disenfranchised were royally fucked by the crisis of 2008 and started looking for people to blame, who better than the less enfranchised than them? Enter Murdoch and the Torys to feed into that mindset.
It's not EU vs Tories though.
There's a huge % of the population who feel (probably quite rightly) ignored by politicians. Yes, occasionally people will come along and make the right noises, but in the end, nothing changes.
The leave vote was a "fuck you establishment". If anyone, especially Labour, says "thanks for your input, but we're going to ignore it, because we know what's best for you" there is going to be massive issues going forward (yes, I know, Brexit is going to cause even bigger issues)
I honestly don't know what the answer is though. Brexit is stupid, Brexit is going to screw us over, the leave campaign broke the law and the media spouted constant bullshit.
However, for a lot of people who voted, life is shit. I live in South Wales, my dad is from "the valleys", I've worked at the steel works etc... Life is shit, people have nothing, no escape, no prospects. There's a million and one different reasons for that, but end of the day they don't care about that, they just want things to change. Remains argument was "vote to stay in the EU and everything is going to stay the same"... I can 100% get why people would have voted the other way.
I don't see a way out of this and I don't know what the best route for a Corbyn led Labour would be.
The ERSI that predicted the first housing bubble and subsequent bank collapse, that ESRI?
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I can't remember where I read it (I think it was The Economist), but there's already data that shows Brexit has had a pretty significant affect on the economy (growth being nowhere near where it should be, investments put on hold, businesses moving to the continent and the effects on the pound).
Edit - Related:
Article (German)
Edit - Related:
Article (German)
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Try to remortgage earlier than that if possible, with fix rate.
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One of the biggest mistakes of the 2010 Labour government is to let the Tories perpetuate the lie that 2008 was their fault. This pervasive myth evaporated all of the trust that Blair and Brown had built in handling the economy. The Tories have no policies except the undermining of the state for purely ideological reasons. This myth about Labour allowed people to more easily feel disenfranchised since they could be swayed away from voting for their natural party because "Labour can't balance the books" and other such contemptuous bollocks peddled by the economically illiterate, malevolant fraudsters and absolute charlatans.
I agree in large part with this because these people are lost and have been left behind. The problem is we still shouldn't give them Brexit because what they have effectively asked for is "I want pigs to fly". We know pigs can not fly. There is no point attempting it. A stronger leader would make this case and offer the alternative and Corbyn does have different policies. Corbyn is not a charismatic leader. No matter what people think of Blair as a politician he was a completely different class compared to the shower today.
The longer term issue is I don't think these communities will ever recover - they will all become more economically dependent on the government going forward as Automation/AI decimates the need for human capital. The problem will only get worse.
Here's an interesting Twitter thread for you. A centre left europhile who fell out of love with the EU.
(It's not me by the way).
https://twitter.com/danieljohnsalt/status/1020385035613065217?s=19
(It's not me by the way).
https://twitter.com/danieljohnsalt/status/1020385035613065217?s=19
Ignoring the fact that it's mostly idealistic bullshit... I stopped reading at "On Brexit you see the weaponisation of the Irish border - the contempt for the UKs democratic process".
Because the Good Friday Agreement and the need to maintain it is clearly all the EUs fault. As for the UK's democratic process. Just, lol.
Because the Good Friday Agreement and the need to maintain it is clearly all the EUs fault. As for the UK's democratic process. Just, lol.