Do you think most of the shootings in Canada come from someone who legally owns that gun?
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Mass shooting reported in Toronto's Greektown; 2 fatalities, 12 injured, shooter dead
- Thread starter FriskyCanuck
- Start date
Do you think most of the shootings in Canada come from someone who legally owns that gun?
User Banned (5 Days): Inflammatory False Equivalencies + Thread derailment
And? People would have went insane here if he was an incel.
What? Are "incels" a readily identifiable group by name or appearance that can be discriminated against? Like immigration bans? Actual policies and verbal/physical violence? If I hate Muslims, I can attack a mosque, rip off a hijab, beat the shit out of a Muslim with an excuse of "road rage", etc. What a ridiculous analogy. The point is this kind of thing spurs hate crimes bigotry against Muslims, and many groups take it as an opportunity to spread their propaganda. But I'm sure you knew that.
Recognizing a hate movement like the incels is different from racists using an ethnic name to try and promote white supremacy. Please don't try to pull some "both sides" bs here.
RIP to the victims involved.
I do not possess hard data and so I can only speculate. Given our highly regulated gun purchasing and dissemination methods, it is highly possible that the perpetrator got it illegally. That in itself raises the same question. How does a psychologically ill person acquire an illegal firearm (the method of selection, the vendor and the method of acquisition).
Asked my buddy if these were legal firearms and he replied with a "no way!" text.
I can't imagine it's that hard to get an illegal gun if you have money and know people. Did he have money?
I was saying there are many on the left that would have a field day if it was an incel. Nothing more.
Yeah no, you don't get to say "nothing more" for spouting a gross false equivalence.
Show me a false equivalence. Show me where I said both the ideology of being muslim and incels is the same.
Please keep telling brown person he was saying Incels and Muslims face the same level of hate
And what would those on "the left" have done to make the lives of "incels" more miserable as a result?
Also, why the fuck can't this guy be an incel? We know he was horribly depressed. Because his name is "Faisal"? Does that exclude the possibility of him being an incel? Honestly curious about your reasoning, if you've even given it 2 seconds of thought.
Who said he wasn't an incel, maybe if you could point out where I ruled that out. I literally didn't make a single assumption. I was pointing out that whenever we have a incel related attack it turns into a shit fest of negativity and assumptions (often of white men) (I am not white why do I feel the need to say this). Similiar to how reddit and alt right will spew on and on about how cucked justin Trudeau is for letting Muslims in and how we should ban hajabs ect now that this guy has a middle eastern name.
I am detracting and derailing at the issue at hand, all I am saying is this: The left will likely approach this correctly, looking and gun control and mental health as the main causes. When an incel does this we don't have this conversation nearly enough, it becomes about white males being fragile ect ect. We have an issue, a mental health and male masculinity issue. Ugly, short/fat ect men feel like shit. The alt right targets these angry lonely individuals. They become radical. Yet the discussion seems to not be able mental health when they attack.
Maybe the easiest way is this; when we discuss Elliot Rodgers we talk about how evil he is, yet it feels like if we talk about this incident in the future, it will be about mental health. Both should be about mental health.
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Wow. Did they just give a brown person the white school shooter treatment? Genuinely surprised that the media (ahem Fox ahem) hasn't tried to depict him as "having ties to ISIS" yet.
Uh, the first words of your post? And the post JUST ABOVE? Like..not even sure why you're pretending to deny that.
What other meaning can "if he was an incel" have? And yeah, "white people" get so oppressed in the real world when there's a white shooter. Yep.
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Yeah man, those white males never get a break. Elliot Rodgers wrote a fucking manifesto...
Jesus Christ
Well said. He attacked innocent people who did no harm to him or anyone and could have maybe been something worthwhile in this world. There is no excuse for what transpired. It's awful news and I feel terrible for the victims, especially the two fatalities given their ages.
How did the parents decide to let him keep these guns and have the funds to even buy them is beyond me? The guy you knew was mentally unstable, how was he even allowed to have guns in his possession if they were watching him? He had depression, did they think him having access to guns was a good idea? I hate to attack innocent people but it just boggles my mind how they allowed this guy to have possession of a firearm. Did he have these without their know?
His parents probably didn't know he had a gun. Handguns are almost impossible to obtain here. He probably got it through illegal ways (gangs, probably) as 98% of the guns in Canada are smuggled from US.
'if he was an incel" Please find me a defintion that links the term if to being equal to same level of muslim. And you know what, shocking, I think ugly males, are shit on pretty hard. And I think it's linked to the toxic masculinity that causes mass shootings. Bullying + social outcast can lead to mental health issues. If we just ignore those and say, hey, muslims have it worse we are ignoring a conversation that needs to be had. But yes you are really the true progressive.
If you want to discuss the mental health and social toxicity regarding male masculinity please be welcome to send me a PM. I think it is a real issue, not the same level of Islamophobia. There is a large chance that this person, even if he came from a muslim home, felt many of the same feelings and felt the same about himself as many mass shooters that are 'incels' feel. It often stems from insecurity and self hatred.
r/canada has white supremacists as moderators.
https://www.reddit.com/r/onguardfor...nada_moderator_uperma_im_a_white_nationalist/
How many mosques will go up in flames due to this news, I wonder...
all the gang related shootings happening in my town, are all unregistered weapons from the US. The funny thing is the cops know who is doing it all but can't touch them.
I have no idea what you're talking anymore, you're just muddying the waters and changing the argument. When someone says IF X was Y, it typically means that X is NOT Y. You're either confused or pretending to be.
And where the fuck am I competing for who's more progressive? All I commented on was you downplaying the negative effect of this person being Muslim on other innocent Muslims, and creating a false "but but if he was white if would be same thing" equivalency. There's a reason possibility of mosques being burned down and Muslims physically attacked because of this, and you want to pretend "white people" would face the same consequences.
If doesn't mean the same, I said if it was an incel this site was be going insane and just as unproductive as reddit/altright sites.
50 + 70 > 100
If 50 was 40
40 + 70 > 100
If doesnt mean the same, you tried to paint me as saying Incels face the same magnitude of oppression as Muslims. Point out where I downplayed the muslim issue.
Absolutely terrible loss of life that wasn't needed. I hope those in the hospital manage a full recovery and that the families of those that lost loved ones have a strong support system to help them through this awful time.
I didn't see it posted in full but here's the family of the shooter's statement.
I didn't see it posted in full but here's the family of the shooter's statement.
Damn I know the family of the shooter. I don't want to give out too much personal info, but I'll just say this guy was always troubled. He's the text book case of a troubled shooter, though I'm sure we'll only hear about his religion because you know, Muslim folk don't have mental health issues. He lost two siblings. One in an accident and one to a suicide. Looks like he was out to get himself killed as well. Too bad he took the lives of others in the process. Piece of shit. My sympathies are with the victims and their families.
Knowing how psychosis works, he could have seen a pattern in anything, and built a grand delusion around it. I'm guessing he "observed" over time that strangers were engaged in a coordinated effort to "fuck with him", which is why he didn't shoot that one particular guy who he came across but shot into particular establishments.
Shooter identified as 29 year old Faisal Hussein
Family statement says he had psychosis and depression. his entire life. Still the access to gun is troublesome as someone in his condition should NOT get it in Canada
Family statement says he had psychosis and depression. his entire life. Still the access to gun is troublesome as someone in his condition should NOT get it in Canada
The suspect's family says he was dealing with severe mental health problems for a long time. So how was he able to purchase a gun to commit this mass shooting? Why are people with severe mental health problems so easily able to access guns? Correct me if I'm wrong, but if someone wants to be an airplane pilot or an astronaut, they make him/her undergo a psychological evaluation, right? Why is it that an object that was designed to inflict immediate destruction doesn't require stricter background checks and psychological evaluations to possess? Based on the man's name, some people will jump to the belief that he was committing an act of terrorism in the name of ISIS or any other Islamic terrorist group. It's possible, maybe even likely. Would comprehensive background checks have been able to prevent this, in that case?
The gun was purchased illegally. It's almost impossible to get a handgun legally in Canada.
This is the big city. If you have enough cash and have the trust of a drug dealer, you can probably get a hookup for an illegal gun pretty easily.
There is no background check because there is no sale of firearms (some exceptions to hunting arms and you need a permit for those - may depend on province though for that).
Likely an illegal weapon.
If he purchased it illegally, then I think this was a terrorist attack. He went through the trouble of getting it.
Nice handle ;)
On topic, I find it interesting that our media is going with a mental illness angle for a brown guy. I don't see this being the case down south as we all know he'd be automatically labeled a terrorist.
I hope we do something about the guns that cross our border.
Condolences to the families of the victims. R.I.P. Reese Fallon and also the young child.
It's good that there were mental health services available for Faisal Hussain and that his family tried their best to get help for their son before this fatal incident. Hopefully the weapon Faisal used can be tracked and those that helped supply him with the firearm and ammunition are held accountable if it was an illegal transaction. If anyone had knowledge of the immediate threat Faisal posed but didn't say anything or worse helped or encouraged him they should be held accountable.
It's good that there were mental health services available for Faisal Hussain and that his family tried their best to get help for their son before this fatal incident. Hopefully the weapon Faisal used can be tracked and those that helped supply him with the firearm and ammunition are held accountable if it was an illegal transaction. If anyone had knowledge of the immediate threat Faisal posed but didn't say anything or worse helped or encouraged him they should be held accountable.
I've seen about 5 guns growing up in Toronto. I used to hang out with the wrong people. My childhood friend shot someone in the head when we were about 20. This was years after we stopped chillin. If you are around these types of people, it ain't that hard finding a gun here. Sad it seems it's only getting worse.
Question is how this asshole ended up around those people and establish/built a relationship to the point where one of gen gives him a gun? Seems unlikely that someone who's psychosis and depression was so crippling it caused them to go on a rampage like this would be able to get to that point. Same goes for the buying one angle, illegal guns aren't cheap, and you still need the connections, where did he get that money/connections?
The only story that would seem to add up if we're going with the absolute extreme mental health problems angle would be someone recognizing that and basically using him as a puppet. Possible, but again seems pretty unlikely because that's a lot of faith to put in someone who is that unstable (ie. they fuck up and it comes back to you, they have a change of heart and flip on you, etc).
I dunno, hopefully more details come out, but it doesn't really add up to m. Either these problems are being grossly overstated, or the parents/family really didn't do a very good job keeping track of what he was up to.
If he was under a paranoid delusion it wasn't a terror attack. That doesn't excuse him, but it changes the circumstances. He shouldn't have had a fucking gun, and whoever enabled him needs to rot in jail.
I'm not saying that incels and Muslims are equivalent, but it's worth pointing out that the incel community started as a friendly, extremely positive community and remained that way for years before it was hijacked by 4Chan types. There were at one point (and likely still are) people who identified as incel who aren't walking bags of human excrement.
Just wanted to point out that the incel equivalency isn't TOTALLY nuts. It's still apples and oranges though.
Just wanted to point out that the incel equivalency isn't TOTALLY nuts. It's still apples and oranges though.
Terrorism requires political motive
That's what separates mass murderers and terrorists.
I know. My preliminary belief is that it was a terror attack. I'll wait for more information, but I'm not going to spread my belief around like it's fact.
What the heck are you talking about, any canadian can buy a handgun, shotgun, or rifle. A rifle which can be converted to semi automatic at home with about 2 hours of simple assembly. For a handgun or rifle you need to get a second license, and you are only permitted to own the gun (for target shooting) not open/conceal carry it around.
http://www.howtogetagun.ca/
98% of guns coming from America isn't a big shock, there is only one Canadian gun manufacturer and they make shotguns so of course all guns are gonna come from the USA unless someone wants Russian AK-47s. I think the more relevant stat is Canadian police estimates that ~70% of guns used in crimes were purchased illegally, ie not registered in Canada, and those are probably strawman purchases from somewhere in the USA. Canada does have a border and border enforcement though so thats part of the job, catching gun smugglers. The numbers are still astronomically low, like 300-400 guns caught crossing the border per year and under 200 gun related deaths per year compared to 10,000+ in the USA per year (3.4 per capita USA vs 0.4 Canada).
so we know the barrel size and caliber of the gun? i didn't see that in any reports yet.
edit: after reading some posts in here, people really need to brush up on gun laws in Canada.