Is Silph Co. in Pokemon Red/Blue good game design? Do you want LGPE to change it?

Having Jessie and James between your rival and Giovanni was certainly not, I feel Yellow often made the pacing worse with their inclusion

I liked it and thought it was *juuust* challenging enough. But the series has changed pretty drastically since then and I'm definitely not the target audience anymore.

It's a good place to go grind and get some XP before Koga who can be very tough with some team lineups. I think it's fine.

Honestly since they're sapping any and all challenge out, Silph Co will probably just be a long hallway. Although with silph co being shit in RBY, I won't be too sad about that particular change.

Wouldn't be surprised if they streamlined it a ton.

I miss dungeons like Silph in the subsequent games.

Tho it helps there was only one dungeon that was like that in the entire game, Vivtory road and other dungeons were less cumbersome.

Silph Co. isn't really that hard as you can skip the whole warp panel in you head up to floor 3 and get the card key, though then again I had a guide book to direct me where to go so I wonder if I would still be saying the same if I didn't have it.

It will be interesting to see how Game Freak approach it given they are clearly not holding back in some area given that they gave Misty's Starmie Scald. Personally I think it should be unchanged as Silph Co. is later in the game and at that point the players should be more than capable in figuring out where to go or heaven forbid actually do some exploration.

Seriously Silph Co is a huge playground to explore and you can nab some great items, meet some interesting people, get a sweet Pokémon, learn more about the lore and gain tons of experience.

Streamlining the warp pads is OK, but they should keep the grunts / Gary battle.

I have little faith they won't make it a cakewalk though.

It's my favorite part of RBY. If this is changed or dumbed down in the games it'll be the last straw that breaks the camels back.

TheSubsequentStrajack said:

It's a good place to go grind and get some XP before Koga who can be very tough with some team lineups. I think it's fine.

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Koga is tough? Psychic was so over powered in gen 1 and his entire team was vulnerable to it. Sabrina was really the only threat in gen 1. That Alakazam was a monster.

I played it enough though that I memorized the tiles so it wasn't all that bad.

It'll be a hallway and at the end Team Rocket will throw you a surprise party before Giovanni disbands Team Rocket and hands you the Earth Badge.

Actual cavers with potential random encounters on every single tile is worse than this. If you know where to go you can get the key immediately and can take the floors as they come and clear out trainers and items.

There will be a warp pad which takes you from the ground floor straight to Giovanni.

TheSubsequentStrajack said:

It's a good place to go grind and get some XP before Koga who can be very tough with some team lineups. I think it's fine.

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I always did Koga before anything in Saffron City. Everything I've seen since has also suggested you're supposed to visit Saffron after Koga.

It was tough? Huh. I never really thought of it that way. Odd. I just went through it without thinking about it.

I'm gonna have to replay the versions again and pay more attention this time.

Crazy Izanagi said:

There will be a warp pad which takes you from the ground floor straight to Giovanni.

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It won't work unless you've captured a Fighting-Type Pokemon, though

It is because save for one tile which you take to go face the rival/giovanni, you dont need to use the tiles at all. if you just go up every floor battling people you will eventually find the keycard on the higher levels and then can go back down opening what you missed or just straight up go face blue. there's also a convenient healing spot in one of the higher floors so you dont even need to leave the building to heal if you get hurt.

most of the rockets are in "optional" areas as well so complaining about too many grunts makes no sense. you face them when you want to collect items or just gain xp. the number of rockets you're FORCED to face before taking giovanni is actually quite small

If you want to go down, you go up. If you want to go up, you go down. That's how the rotating tiles work. I've been holding to that knowledge for more than 20 years.

(Also, to navigate Sabrina's gym, always go to the directly opposite teleporter from the one you came in. If you came in from the bottom right teleporter, go to the top right one.)

The absence of dungeons like this in later Pokemon games is one of the biggest things keeping me from caring deeply about the modern games.

Solid said:

It won't work unless you've captured a Fighting-Type Pokemon, though

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Luckily for everyone playing Let's Go, the Karate King will just hand you Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan without you having to fight any of his students.

Joey Ravn said:

(Also, to navigate Sabrina's gym, always go to the directly opposite teleporter from the one you came in. If you came in from the bottom right teleporter, go to the top right one.)

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You can just keep heading to the teleporter directly left or right the one you spawned and you will eventually reach sabrina (and the entrance, if you do it reversed) anyway.

A dungeon with a slightly complex layout is now bad design?

Unfortunately dungeons have been further and further simplified starting with the fifth generation so I'm sure it'll be a shell of its former self in LGPE regardless of what I want.

This is going to be SOOOOOOOO dumbed down. I don't even want to think about it

808s & Villainy said:

This is going to be SOOOOOOOO dumbed down. I don't even want to think about it

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three warp pads on the first floor: one leads to giovanni, one leads to a room full of items and one leads to -gasp- an empty room with a rocket battle! but before you can step on it your friendly rival appears and tell you where the right warp pad is, also healing you and giving you a lvl50 lapras

No teleportation puzzle in Pokémon has been good.

The team plasma frigate was a way better villain hideout in bw2.

i liked it when i was a kiddo and still liked it when i replayed the game later in my life

Dr. Feel Good said:

Koga is tough? Psychic was so over powered in gen 1 and his entire team was vulnerable to it. Sabrina was really the only threat in gen 1. That Alakazam was a monster.

I played it enough though that I memorized the tiles so it wasn't all that bad.

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Koga can be tough if you don't have a psychic type, plus in the original gen 1 he was broken as he would always spam sleep power over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Metallix87 said:

I always did Koga before anything in Saffron City. Everything I've seen since has also suggested you're supposed to visit Saffron after Koga.

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Nope, Koga is the fifth Gym leader and you're suppose to take him on before Sabrina, who's the sixth Gym Leader. Which is why I now take on Koga first before taking on Sabrina and her bogus psychic powers.

This push for "Press A to Pokémon Master" game design in Go Pikachu / Eevee is making me want to buy the old GB games on Game Boy. Red Version, my Raticate with Bubblebeam, good times.

Glio said:

No teleportation puzzle in Pokémon has been good.

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yeah the thing i hate most about puzzles is how they require you to think at least a little

why cant puzzles just solve themselves for us?

yuoke said:

The team plasma frigate was a way better villain hideout in bw2.

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silph is not the rocket hideout though

Mr-Joker said:

Koga can be tough if you don't have a psychic type, plus in the original gen 1 he was broken as he would always spam sleep power over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.



Nope, Koga is the fifth Gym leader and you're suppose to take him on before Sabrina, who's the sixth Gym Leader. Which is why I now take on Koga first before taking on Sabrina and her bogus psychic powers.

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koga and sabrina are actually even levelled though, there is no real set order given by the game

different from gen II where people usually face jasmine before pryce and his levels are way lover than her clearly indicating he should be faced before her

Starlatine said:

yeah the thing i hate most about puzzles is how they require you to think at least a little

why cant puzzles just solve themselves for us?



silph is not the rocket hideout though




koga and sabrina are actually even levelled though, there is no real set order given by the game

different from gen II where people usually face jasmine before pryce and his levels are way lover than her clearly indicating he should be faced before her

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Think? The teleportation puzzles are completely trial and error. There is no underlying logic, it is simply '' Ah, it is not this, it is the other ''.

There are no clues, there is nothing to think about.

Glio said:

Think? The teleportation puzzles are completely trial and error. There is no underlying logic, it is simply '' Ah, it is not this, it is the other ''.

There are no clues, there is nothing to think about.

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of course there is a logic. every pad transports you to another pad, and that pad transports you back. you're not randomly transported to any of the pads in the building when you use any pad. you also need to take into consideration the way you're facing when you teleport in order to get the keycard, which you need to obtain to progress in the building

its a very simple puzzle but still one. contrast it with the "puzzles" in Suun & Moon/ XY where there was only one solution that barely pretended you actually did something. oh no you need to push rocks inside the temple of trials to move on! but there is literally only one path where you can push the single rock blocking your progress, what a mind melter that one is

it's good because i played it when i was a kid and coincidentally everything was better back then than it is now

That's a REALLY good question. Holy shit, nice one OP. As a kid, I guess I was just picking at random until something worked out. I eventually I memorized that I just needed to go to the 3rd floor. It's only fine to me because I know it, I'd get annoyed doing Silph in another game today. With that said, Sabrina's gym is good design.

is this a puzzle

Silph Co is a legit dungeon. I just replayed this a couple months ago and it was definitely a challenge to get my bearings and check everything out. Really enjoyed it, though.

Silph Co. to this day remains one of my most hated dungeons. Terribly designed and just annoying. If I could skip that part of the game I would gladly do so.

If they changed it into a more interesting dungeon I'd be happy with that.

But then again, there was a lot of stuff in there that was fun to find. The earthquake TM, I think or maybe that was Victory Road. Self destruct was another one.

And then you got freaking Lapras for saving everyone. The music was great.

Rival battle.
Giovanni.

I fucks with Silph Co.

Gen 1, top 3 game.

It's confusing as hell.

They should keep it.

It's one of my least favorite parts of the game. Wouldn't mind at all if they streamlined it.

Having to work out the teleporter patterns and the challenge of moving through a lot of rockets was what made it rewarding and memorable in the end. If it was streamlined you probably wouldn't remember anything about it years later.

WrenchNinja said:

Luckily for everyone playing Let's Go, the Karate King will just hand you Hitmonlee and Hitmonchan without you having to fight any of his students.

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King implies a competitive spirit. That might be a little rough for younger and less experienced users to handle.
That's why we've redesigned him into the Karate Pal, leader of the Friendship Dojo

WrenchNinja said:

is this a puzzle

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nah this is

Neutering memorable areas was part of why GSC Kanto was awful. Games need stress points.

It's super easy if you know what you're doing. I imagine LGPE will significantly neuter it anyway.

WrenchNinja said:

is this a puzzle

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I still don't understand why they bothered to introduce the Pokéride feature when they barely bothered to use it. They could have easily been removed and the game would still flow as normal.

Lady Bow said:

nah this is

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Bad example, that section acts a mini tutorial to teach the players how the ice puzzle work as it gets a bit more complex the further you go in, with one rewarding the player with the final HM.

Sciz said:

Neutering memorable areas was part of why GSC Kanto was awful. Games need stress points.

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Jesus Christ, it was a Victory Lap. GSC Kanto slander will not be tolerated.

One thing's for sure

They're going to ruin the music