• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Lol. I'm sure all the AfD fucks who abuse Ozil on Facebook value our democratic values a ton.
The AfD idiots obviously welcomed the opportunity to spew their bs into the mainstream, no doubt.

However, plenty of progressives over here were simply appalled by Özils photo op and how he stood by it even after the first wave of criticism surfaced.
 

amnesties

Member
Nov 17, 2017
835
Same. Im really surprised racism apologists are allowed on era. I thought this place was supposed to be progressive but I guess not when you're muslim.

exactly this. some of the responses in here are quite terrible. but honestly, after that henry cavil thread i really can't be surprised
 

Seventh

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
283
We are especially riled up by this because most German-Turks support Erdogan (a much higher percentage than in Turkey even) all while enjoying the freedom of our social and liberal democracy. For many Germans this simply feels like betrayal of our democratic values.


Just because they're immigrants, doesn't mean they should negate their freewill.

They're not your property, they're people, with their own lives and minds.

Like saying Blacks previously enslaved in the diaspora should be happy because whites aren't treating them like cattle anymore.

How high are you about yourself?
 

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,819
Canada
Same. Im really surprised racism apologists are allowed on era. I thought this place was supposed to be progressive but I guess not when you're muslim.

Welcome to life as a Muslim in the West. It's always been like this.
I highly recommend using the report function (can be found to the far right of each post).

Mods can't be everywhere, so it helps to notify them of offensive posts, especially of those with a repeated history of such behaviour.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
I'll probably get banned if I said what I think after reading through this thread so I will refrain. Ironic considering I didn't think what's being displayed in this thread was allowed here.

What I will say is that it's clear a lot of you have no fucking idea what it's like being treated like a foreigner/outsider growing up in the very country you were born in simply because your skin isn't the correct shade or you practice a religion that isn't traditional in that country.

Well done for proving his point. Good job guys.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Just because they're immigrants, doesn't mean they should negate their freewill.

They're not your property, they're people, with their own lives and minds.

Like saying Blacks previously enslaved in the diaspora should be happy because whites aren't treating them like cattle anymore.

How high are you about yourself?
What kind of stupid comparison is that? No one is negating their free will or free speech. These people choose to live in our liberal society and yet support dictatorship.

They are obviously free to do that (we are not Turkey) but their free will doesn't shield them from criticism.
 

behOemoth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,628
the amount of Erdogan apologist in thread is outstanding
can you quote even three?
What kind of stupid comparison is that? These people choose to live in our liberal society and yet support dictatorship.

They are obviously free to do that (we are not Turkey) but their free will doesn't shield them from criticism.
Özil didn't chose that his Mom and Dad made love in liberal Germany and stayed there for the next 9 months.
 

tiebreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,153
I'm not sure I agree about the photo. Erdogan has been a desaster for Turkish democracy, and the argument that he's just a footballer and it's not about politics is pretty weak when Erdogan is imprisoning journalists and installing an authoritarian system.

That said, it's clear that most of Özil's critics never really cared about Turkish politics. After Germany's poor performance at the World cup they showed their true face. How Özil was treated was absolutely disgusting and racist. In Brazil they cheered for him but when Germany loses he's the scapegoat.

For example, this image was posted by an AfD politician on Twitter (Caption reads 'Are you satisfied, my president?', implying he wanted Germany to lose)

images


I'm ashamed of my country for bullying a great player and World Cup winner out of our team.

Well, it's afd...

I don't symphatize with Özil because he buddies buddies with Edogan. But I do symphatize with people of immigration background or immigrants in general.
 

Seventh

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
283
What kind of stupid comparison is that? These people choose to live in our liberal society and yet support dictatorship.

They are obviously free to do that (we are not Turkey) but their free will doesn't shield them from criticism.


Our? Who do you think you are?

I didn't create the Earth.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Tbh honest I live in a nation that actively discriminates against the poor and disabled. Which the majority of the nation supports.

Dictatorship and democracy don't seem all that different right now in the world.

All are evil.
This is just downright moronic.

Our? Who do you think you are?

I didn't create the Earth.
German. I'm speaking about German-Turks living in Germany while actively supporting a dictator. Clear?
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
The AfD idiots obviously welcomed the opportunity to spew their bs into the mainstream, no doubt.

However, and this is not disingenious, plenty of progressive people over here were simply appalled by Özils photo op.
I wasn't a fan either. And yet, what Ozil wrote was true in spite of his questionable relation to Erdogan. He spelt out the immigrant experience in Germany with an eery accuracy and I'm happy it's getting a somewhat positive reception.
It was correct to criticize Ozil and Gundogan but the criticism online eventually turned to hatred (very quickly as far as I can tell). It felt like racists unloaded their hatred for Turkish people onto him and I very much doubt many of these hopeless fucks care about democratic values. Grindel and Bierhoff throwing one of their most accomplished players under the bus and practically singling him out for the miserable World Cup performance of the German team was pathetic. They emboldened racists and exposed Ozil to racial hatred yet again, while avoiding to take on own responsibility. Imagine being an immigrant or a 2nd gen in Germany and seeing a guy who contributed more to the country than 99.9% of the population ever will, being treated like dogshit and his heritage being a very likely catalyst for it.
 
Dec 2, 2017
1,544
I'll probably get banned if I said what I think after reading through this thread so I will refrain. Ironic considering I didn't think what's being displayed in this thread was allowed here.

What I will say is that it's clear a lot of you have no fucking idea what it's like being treated like a foreigner/outsider growing up in the very country you were born in simply because your skin isn't the correct shade or you practice a religion that isn't traditional in that country.

Well done for proving his point. Good job guys.

This is on point.

From my personal experience many Germans and French( I have citizenship of both countries and I am a minority in both) are masters at deflecting once the conversation turns to racism, islamophobia, or anti-semitism. I am always told it is a thing of the past and we are just overreacting.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,204
I'll probably get banned if I said what I think after reading through this thread so I will refrain. Ironic considering I didn't think what's being displayed in this thread was allowed here.

What I will say is that it's clear a lot of you have no fucking idea what it's like being treated like a foreigner/outsider growing up in the very country you were born in simply because your skin isn't the correct shade or you practice a religion that isn't traditional in that country.

Well done for proving his point. Good job guys.
100% agreed.
 

kitress

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
330
Tbh honest I live in a nation that actively discriminates against the poor and disabled. Which the majority of the nation supports.

Dictatorship and democracy don't seem all that different right now in the world.

All are evil.

This is a profoundly stupid statement. Have you ever lived in or traveled to a country ruled by a dictator?
 

Seventh

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
283
User banned (permanent): Inflammatory rhetoric towards other members, extensive history of similar infractions
This is just downright moronic.


German. I'm speaking about German-Turks living in Germany while actively supporting a dictator. Clear?


They can support who they want, for good and bad.

You're the dictator, since you seem to think it is your right to decide who they like and not.

If it bothers you so much, pin a yellow star on them.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Very clever. Why did you remove "criticism" though?

They can support who they want, for good and bad.

You're the dictator, since you seem to think it is your right to decide who they like and not.

If it bothers you so much, pin a yellow star on them.
Whatever the point was you were trying to make, with that post you just disqualified yourself from the discussion.

And again just for you: they CAN support whoever they want. That doesn't mean others can't be critical about it.
 
Last edited:

orochi91

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,819
Canada
I'll probably get banned if I said what I think after reading through this thread so I will refrain. Ironic considering I didn't think what's being displayed in this thread was allowed here.

What I will say is that it's clear a lot of you have no fucking idea what it's like being treated like a foreigner/outsider growing up in the very country you were born in simply because your skin isn't the correct shade or you practice a religion that isn't traditional in that country.

Well done for proving his point. Good job guys.
+1
 

Seventh

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
283
This is a profoundly stupid statement. Have you ever lived in or traveled to a country ruled by a dictator?


Live in a nation ruled by the super rich. Who at will decide can decide to bomb Syria and Libya and Iraq, all for our security of course, without a mandate from the people.

Which nations have started more wars around the world these past 50 years? Dictatorships or democracies?
 

Deleted member 2809

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
25,478
Just because they're immigrants, doesn't mean they should negate their freewill.

They're not your property, they're people, with their own lives and minds.

Like saying Blacks previously enslaved in the diaspora should be happy because whites aren't treating them like cattle anymore.

How high are you about yourself?
What happened to free speech != freedom of consequences
This post is so dumb
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
I'll probably get banned if I said what I think after reading through this thread so I will refrain. Ironic considering I didn't think what's being displayed in this thread was allowed here.

What I will say is that it's clear a lot of you have no fucking idea what it's like being treated like a foreigner/outsider growing up in the very country you were born in simply because your skin isn't the correct shade or you practice a religion that isn't traditional in that country.

Well done for proving his point. Good job guys.

Real talk.
 

Seventh

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
283
Very clever. Why did you remove "criticism" though?

Whatever the point was you were trying to make, with that post you just disqualified yourself from the discussion.


Sure it does, ignorance off your own history is bliss.

Hence why seems to be repeating itself in the minds of the people.

Enjoy, when it consumes you.
 

Stardestroyer

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,819
This is a profoundly stupid statement. Have you ever lived in or traveled to a country ruled by a dictator?
I think the point is Democracies haven't been doing any better at protecting the lives and happiness of its minority population more so than dictators have been. Dictators are horrible you can look at Russia, North Korea for that, but it doesn't mean democracy are better either just because they are less horrible. After all Erdogan was the product of a democracy. Or the issue in Burma.

To some minority groups the differences between a dictator is the difference between manslaughter and homecide. To the victims the outcome is the same, they are still dead.

America is on paper design to protect all its citizens equally and yet here are with its history of slavery, the constant stripping of the rights of minorities and the killings of blacks by police.
 

Bedlam

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,536
Sure it does, ignorance off your own history is bliss.

Hence why seems to be repeating itself in the minds of the people.

Enjoy, when it consumes you.
We are being critical of support for a dictator and you are calling me a dictator. Just insane.

As I wrote above: Özil can support whoever he wants. He is in no danger of being jailed or anything. That doesn't shield him from criticism, however.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,435
São Paulo, Brazil
Do not apply labels to or personally attack the users that you disagree with. This topic calls for reasonable and calm discussion, not accusations and recriminations. Posts that ignore this from now on will be dealt with as harshly as necessary to keep the peace.
 

TokyoJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,044
As a son of Turkish immigrants, born and live my entire life in Germany, I 100% understand and support his decision.

The media and the German people (not all but many of them) behaved absolutely disgusting towards him in the last couple month. Many just don't want Turkish people to play in the German national team and the erdogan pic was the big chance for them to jump on him.

I supported the German national team since I was a little kid but I will not anymore. They can fuck of and I hope no kids with immigration background choose to play for them in the future

I wish özil the best in the future

Wrong motorcycle.

You are German and not Turkish, German by birth and the racists cannot take that away from you, but I'm also not happy with certain Turkish parents instilling nationalism in their kids while the kids are born in Germany or another EU country and have nothing to do with Turkey. That's how I see it anywhere.
 

Biestmann

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,413
I don't agree with Özil's decision as an individual, but he shouldn't have been put on blast for his decisions. When you play the World Cup in Russia of all places, then we don't need to pretend political integrity is paramount in football.
 

Trafalgar Law

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,683
Re goes back to the French and their black players

This still happens often which is why people wanting to completely divorce them from their african heritage annoyed me
And some treating being african as an insult
a heritage that alot of them are proud of, you know it doesn't have to be binary , both can be celebrated
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
Wrong motorcycle.

You are German and not Turkish, German by birth and the racists cannot take that away from you, but I'm also not happy with certain Turkish parents instilling nationalism in their kids while the kids are born in Germany or another EU country and have nothing to do with Turkey. That's how I see it anywhere.

That's not up to you and you can't control it. It's part and parcel of global mobility.

So you're trying to tell me if you moved overseas and had kids you wouldn't teach them about their heritage, where they come from and to acknowledge/respect all of those things?
 

LabRat

Member
Mar 16, 2018
4,234
I don`t know any other country that is so addicted and triggered by Erdogan and his politics than Germany. It has become so bad that you get the impression the whole country is more focused about politics in Turkey.

germany has a huge population of turks living here. 70% of them being okay and supporting a dictator who funds/supports a terrorist organisation, throws judges, journalists and politicians into prisons, abolishes the free press, oppresses and kills minorities (kurds) and wants to turn a country into a islamist theocracy is scary to me. so yes we need to talk about it and we need to draw a clear line. just how we need to draw a clear line and tell everyone who says özil is not a german or can't play for germany is being a racist and how the racist abuse he's receiving from the media, the dfb and so on is disgusting.
 
Last edited:

Boss

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
951
For me, I think Ozil's excuses for having the picture with the dictator of Turkey fall flat and they're showing his ignorance at the highest level. Saying a picture with a politican has no political intentions is ignorant, that picture will be used to say you endorse him. When you're as famous as Ozil is, and you're such a role model for young German and Turkish people, and for young Arsenal fans, you know how every word you say, picture you take, will have an impact. Saying that taking a picture was about "respecting the office of my family's country" and not taking it would be "disrespecting the roots of my ancestors" just continues the ignorance. The reason why sports stars in America today who oppose the racism and inequality that Donald Trump condones, endorses and partakes in himself, don't pose pictures with him, isn't because they don't respect the office of the Presidency. It's because they do respect the office of the Presidency, and know how much power and influence the President holds, and someone who doesn't fight for the same type of justice and equality we want doesn't deserve to hold that power. Taking pictures with Donald Trump will legitimize him, it would do a lot of damage, and I criticize any sports star who poses with Donald Trump today, him and the republican policies are not what anyone should be endorsing. Saying that you're a footballer and not a politician doesn't exclude you, and the fact he says himself that he doesn't hold Erdogan accountable for his actions in a conversation with him, and just speaks about football, only speaks to that ignorance. Being a footballer doesn't mean you need to play nice when your president calls you for a picture. The message he should be sending out is that it doesn't matter who you are, or what you do, or what office or position someone holds, if someone doesn't deserve respect, it shouldn't be given to them. It's not disrespectful to your ancestors or to your country to not stand in line with a dictator for a photo, that's one of the largest forms of respect.

That being said, my problem with Ozil is that he posed for a picture with a dictator and is using his own ignorance as an excuse. I don't, and nobody should be using where his family came from, or what religion he follows, as something to attack him with. Islamophobia is real, xenophobia is real, not just in America but in Germany and many countries in Europe. The type of attacks that these fascist, racist politicians and people use against Ozil have no place in our society, and the racial abuse he's been subjected to is disgusting. Criticize someone for what they do, what they say, what they believe in and support, not for what they are or where they came from.

And because there's a lot of whataboutism in this topic. Yes, I think all countries shouldn't have participated in the World Cup and legitimized Putin and his dogshit regime. I think the World Cup and nationalism that it brings out in general is bad. I am not nationalistic at all.
 

sanstesy

Banned
Nov 16, 2017
2,471
No one is a fan of the DFB, the world football mafia that is FIFA or similar organizations. Why should anyone be? There is no inspiration here other than sheer money-making. They are a soulless company with no person attached to it to the average adult/kid.

Like everyone else my 7 yo cousin in the UK isn't a fan of the football organization FIFA, he is a fan of the German team in huge part because of Özil (and as of recently, Salah with Liverpool/Egypt of course). That's who they look up to, these are their idols. Why? Because they are some of the most accomplished immigrated muslim athletes in recent history and as a result a huge role model for any young muslim kid here in Europe wanting it to make big.

What does one of the most accomplished immigrated muslim athletes do? Proudly taking the side of the dictator from his homecountry in front of everyone who looks up to him through social media. What the fuck are you doing?
 
Last edited: