You have too much time on your hands to make random fart noises and trying to pass it off as a game's soundtrack.
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The Yoshi's Island sequels are so uninspired and derivative
- Thread starter Jonneh
- Start date
You have too much time on your hands to make random fart noises and trying to pass it off as a game's soundtrack.
Antdude did a video covering the Island series (not story) and the only thing you need to know about why sequels suck is the dev.
Artoon/Arzest are such bad developers who have no idea why the SNES original was good. Not even the team at Nintendo who designed the new levels for the GBA port understand it.
Their best game was Blinx which is kinda hilarious.
Artoon/Arzest are such bad developers who have no idea why the SNES original was good. Not even the team at Nintendo who designed the new levels for the GBA port understand it.
Their best game was Blinx which is kinda hilarious.
It's not mine. But I wish I made it, it perfectly represents the quality of the game.
The breakdown at the end is fire. No idea what y'all are complaining about
I'll defend the DS one. Yes, derivative, yes lacks some of the magic of the original, but the game is generally well-designed with good levels and fun exploration.
Sounds more like your opinion was heavily colored by the expectation of it being a direct sequel to Super Mario World, causing u to never give the game a proper chance. I used to feel the same as well. I had the exact same expectations and felt disappointed. But as time went by I started to appreciate the game as great in its own right.
OT: I think the sequels to it were so disappointing because the novel ideas the original brougth to the table were basically it, and they were never able to recapture that in subsequent sequels.
IMHO that is true for most of Nintendo's franchises that have been outsourced to external developers. Mostly because I think the internal Nintendo devs felt they extracted everything they thought they could get from the core concepts of these games, and felt they had nothing to add to them anymore worthwhile a sequel.
And that the fact they get outsourced is more a response from Nintendo of any outcry for new installments and them giving into that.
While I consider Wooly World a much better game than some of the spin-offs, I would actually state that that game comes off as somewhat derivative as well. It was enough as an avid Nintendo fan that I still somewhat felt some additional fatigue with the Wii U and 3DS generation of Nintendo just reiterating and remaking the same couple of games.
You're comparing Arzest with EAD, literally the best level designing team on the planet. It's never going to approach the quality of that first game.
Wooly World is at least decent, but still pales in comparison in my humble opinion.
Wooly World is at least decent, but still pales in comparison in my humble opinion.
Yoshi's Island 1 will still be a good game, it just overlaps a ton with Yoshi's Island DS in terms of overall design, while having better presentation and slightly less gameplay variety/challenge.
To be fair Arzest is basically key people from peak era Sega CS. They include staff who worked on games like Flicky, Spellcaster, Fatal Labyrinth, Shadow Dancer, Sonic 1/CD/Jam, Phantasy Star I/II/IV, Ristar, Virtua Racing DLX, Star Wars Arcade, Chaotix, Rad Mobile, Clockwork Knight 1-2, Astal, Panzer Dragoon 1/Saga, Virtua Fighter 2/4, Virtual On, Dragon Force, Sakura Taisen 1-2, NiGHTS, House of the Dead, Manx TT, Burning Rangers, Magic Knight Rayearth, Sonic Adventure, Skies of Arcadia and Space Channel 5 1/2 for example.
There's also some vets from 90s Square, Konami, Namco, SNK and Genki there too.
Yeah. I got Yoshi's New Island for free thanks to the the Club Nintendo redeemed points and stuff and I didn't even finish it. Painfully average, boring AND annoying with that awful soundtrack. I know they were trying to fit an aesthetic with those type of sounds but they failed miserably at it.
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I don't think what you're saying is really new. Much like Yoshi's New™ Island for the Nintendo 3DS™
I really hope they never let Arzest touch the series again. They've done enough damage. Nintendo outsourcing that Pikmin 3DS game to them just last year though isn't exactly making me hopeful.
At least for right now Yoshi is in good hands again. I haven't played Woolly World yet but I've played both Wario Land and Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii and I have a ton of faith in Good-Feel as a result. Kirby in particular is maybe one of my favorite games of all time. I'm definitely going in on the cardboard Yoshi game day 1 when it comes out.
At least for right now Yoshi is in good hands again. I haven't played Woolly World yet but I've played both Wario Land and Kirby's Epic Yarn on the Wii and I have a ton of faith in Good-Feel as a result. Kirby in particular is maybe one of my favorite games of all time. I'm definitely going in on the cardboard Yoshi game day 1 when it comes out.
While i still think it's a beautiful imaginative game, i agree that it's overrated. I too was a bit disappointed playing it after SMW.
Woolly World is the closest thing Yoshi's Island has to a genuinely great follow up, but it still is many shades behind the original. But a considerable step in the right direction compared to DS and New.
I'm more forgiving of DS, it came out after a large gap of time where people had been asking for a game more directly like island, it tried to add to the formula, dipped its toes into some extra environments (probably just the wildlands/canyon admittedly)/enemies/level design concepts and surprisingly could be balls hard at times.
Still a lacking title but not nearly as blatantly half hearted as New Island which also has horrible and seemingly deliberate lag on preparing egg throws and thus feels sluggish as well as derivative.
Still a lacking title but not nearly as blatantly half hearted as New Island which also has horrible and seemingly deliberate lag on preparing egg throws and thus feels sluggish as well as derivative.
Yeah, Island DS was quite the disappointment, and I didn't even give New Island a chance because of how lazy it looked and sounded.
Woolly World was solid, but still a bit too derivative of Yoshi's Island.
What I really want to see is a 3D Yoshi platformer. Waaaay back when we were wondering what Retro's big Wii U game was (DKC:TF) I thought maybe they could be making that. Since around that time Nintendo kept doing weird fruit gags in the Directs.
Woolly World was solid, but still a bit too derivative of Yoshi's Island.
What I really want to see is a 3D Yoshi platformer. Waaaay back when we were wondering what Retro's big Wii U game was (DKC:TF) I thought maybe they could be making that. Since around that time Nintendo kept doing weird fruit gags in the Directs.
Yoshi's Island has this creative magic to it. Yoshi's Story kind of has it too, although obviously it's not quite as good. The other games are just sort of boring and same-y if I'm being honest.
Even a game like Woolly World... I had fun going through co-op with my SO but I still remember going through and feeling like something was missing from the level design. Like it was just a bunch of platforms to traverse rather than a world where every platform had context and purpose like in a game such as Tropical Freeze.
On a side note, I actually had the same problem with Kirby Star Allies this year in that the levels just felt completely bland and like a bunch of boxes and platforms rather than having some semblance of context to tie things together. Kirby 64 has still done the 'Tropical Freeze Thing' best for Kirbt Games imo. That game made you feel like you were moving through a real piece of a planet in each level. Do that again please, Nintendo.
Even a game like Woolly World... I had fun going through co-op with my SO but I still remember going through and feeling like something was missing from the level design. Like it was just a bunch of platforms to traverse rather than a world where every platform had context and purpose like in a game such as Tropical Freeze.
On a side note, I actually had the same problem with Kirby Star Allies this year in that the levels just felt completely bland and like a bunch of boxes and platforms rather than having some semblance of context to tie things together. Kirby 64 has still done the 'Tropical Freeze Thing' best for Kirbt Games imo. That game made you feel like you were moving through a real piece of a planet in each level. Do that again please, Nintendo.
Things that turned me off regarding the Yoshi games after the OG Yoshi's Island:
- Lackluster Baby music.
- Lackluster "new" areas to explore
- Lame visual gimmicks - Original had a crayon/chalk look, but didn't make that a key point of the design/world
- Yoshi being depicted as a baby-like character, especially with ANNOYING voice and sounds (I HATE how Yoshi sounds). In Yoshi's Island (original), Yoshi was the adult, Mario was the baby!!
Yoshi Island was a solid game (hell, I enjoy it MORE than SMW), the gameplay was great, the look was imaginative and the music was up to par with most SMB games. Yoshi's Story and onward was the teetering off into babyland toddler crap!
I mean, fuck me, the original Yoshi's Island music was sooooooo good!
Underground Theme
Castle/Fortress Theme
Athletic
Overworld
Big Boss
Musically, I hold it up to it's peers of that era. No baby shit, just good music!
- Lackluster Baby music.
- Lackluster "new" areas to explore
- Lame visual gimmicks - Original had a crayon/chalk look, but didn't make that a key point of the design/world
- Yoshi being depicted as a baby-like character, especially with ANNOYING voice and sounds (I HATE how Yoshi sounds). In Yoshi's Island (original), Yoshi was the adult, Mario was the baby!!
Yoshi Island was a solid game (hell, I enjoy it MORE than SMW), the gameplay was great, the look was imaginative and the music was up to par with most SMB games. Yoshi's Story and onward was the teetering off into babyland toddler crap!
I mean, fuck me, the original Yoshi's Island music was sooooooo good!
Underground Theme
Castle/Fortress Theme
Athletic
Overworld
Big Boss
Musically, I hold it up to it's peers of that era. No baby shit, just good music!
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The games themselves are kinda meh, but I feel like everyone who hates New's soundtrack has only heard that one song. It has some good pieces in there.
Ski-Lift Leap
Special Course
The entire soundtrack is a bit slow, but it definitely isn't bad.
Ski-Lift Leap
Special Course
The entire soundtrack is a bit slow, but it definitely isn't bad.
The thing that disappoints me the most is the lack of worldbuilding. If the level designs are going to be a little weak/bland or the gameplay a bit slow, then at least give me a reason to care about the setting and characters.
Oh, look! Baby Bowser and Kamek are up to no good again! zzz -.-
Oh, look! Baby Bowser and Kamek are up to no good again! zzz -.-
This is why I consider 2D platforrmers lesser games. The genre was mastered in the 90s; now, Nintendo use 2D platformers as a means of making some easy cash — they have never tried to push the boat out or show ambition with these games, nor have they treated one of their 2D titles as a flagship game.
Tropical Freeze was no better than the original DKC's, before anyone tries that bollocks.
Tropical Freeze was no better than the original DKC's, before anyone tries that bollocks.
I legitimately believe find Yoshi's Woolie World to be the most appealing Yoshi game from an audio and visual standpoint, and in general I just think it's the funnest Yoshi game. I really hope it gets ported to Switch, but it's looking like that's not happening what with them focusing on the new UE4 game instead, which I'm sure will be great, but Woolie's World just oozed charm, and it was the first game my daughter and I beat all the way through together, so it's probably going to be always be one of the most important games I've ever played on a personal level just for that. I hear the 3DS port was really great, so I'd love to see that version make its way to Switch, here's hoping Nintendo considers it.
Any successor to Yoshi's Island, the single greatest 2D platformer of all time, was going to fall short regardless of its actual quality.
Honestly, yeah. It's no Yoshi's Island SNES but it's still fine on its own merits.
Honestly, yeah. It's no Yoshi's Island SNES but it's still fine on its own merits.
I know the OP was mostly talking about the sequels explicitly named "Island", but—as someone deeply attached to Yoshi's Island—I honestly think Woolly World chases and arguably equals it. I was gobsmacked by how good it was, as nothing about Kirby's Epic Yarn suggested to me that Good-Feel had this kind of game in them. Some players may even prefer its granular health bar to the Baby Mario system of YI, though I just think of them as two different paradigms that the stages are designed around. Likewise for the collectible benchmarks for 100% (i.e. whether you need to grab everything in one go). YWW is very much the DKC Returns of a series that had become known for repeatedly failing to recapture and surpass the storybook magic of the original, and it's why I think the delay of Yoshi for Switch is something to embrace, as we may come out of it amply rewarded.
Rock-solid top three. Touch & Go was fantastic for the endless arcade game it was, even though the cost of entry seemed steep at the time and would be an even tougher sell now that this sort of design has migrated to the race-to-the-bottom mobile market. It was way ahead of its time and one of the first true first-party originals to show off what the DS could do, all the way down to the microphone.
I'm sure I've said this before in some other platformer thread where you fielded this argument, but I am so glad you are not in charge of anything. The abandonment of 2D in the name of "progress" was the worst thing that ever happened to console games and set game design back by a decade.
Rock-solid top three. Touch & Go was fantastic for the endless arcade game it was, even though the cost of entry seemed steep at the time and would be an even tougher sell now that this sort of design has migrated to the race-to-the-bottom mobile market. It was way ahead of its time and one of the first true first-party originals to show off what the DS could do, all the way down to the microphone.
I'm sure I've said this before in some other platformer thread where you fielded this argument, but I am so glad you are not in charge of anything. The abandonment of 2D in the name of "progress" was the worst thing that ever happened to console games and set game design back by a decade.
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As others have said, Wooly World was at least good if you consider that part of the series. Could have used a bit more originality but still had a decent amount unique to itself.
Yoshi's Island DS is the only other Yoshi game I've bothered beating aside from the original and WW. I think when it came out it had been so long since Yoshi's Island (and Yoshi's Story was such a disappointment for me) that I didn't mind it being a such a rehash. I'm also of the mindset that the babies sort of helped differentiate it. Not like it's a game I am itching to go back to though
Yoshi's Island DS is the only other Yoshi game I've bothered beating aside from the original and WW. I think when it came out it had been so long since Yoshi's Island (and Yoshi's Story was such a disappointment for me) that I didn't mind it being a such a rehash. I'm also of the mindset that the babies sort of helped differentiate it. Not like it's a game I am itching to go back to though
Tropical Freeze was much better than the original Trilogy in terms of level design and contextual world building. Heck, Celeste from this year is up there with the very best games ever made. There are still tremendous 2D games out there surpassing many of the efforts from the 90's.
That's what I wanted to say, and you said it so much better.
Celeste is not a Nintendo game. Nintendo themselves have not since developed a 2D platformer with the intention of superseding Super Mario World 1 & 2; their talented developers are reserved for games such as Odyssey, Breath of the Wild, ARMS and Splatoon.
Tropical Freeze was no better than the Rareware games, on par at best. 2D platformers are lesser games, Retro should have stuck with Sci Fi adventure games.
You said "This is why I consider 2D platformers lesser games."
I'll play Celeste; however, based on what people said about TF compared to how it actually is. I'm expdcting it to be no better than the 2D paltflrmers of the 90s
Way to hijack a Yoshi thread and make it about your gripes with Retro doing Donkey Kong 10 years ago.
Yoshi's Story was beautiful because of its lateral thinking in terms of level design. A combination of exploration and score-attack. It really almost felt like something Sonic Team at their peak would have come up with, but wrapped in a cutesy package that belied what was underneath.
It was short because you have to think of it like a Starfox game. Although you can save between levels in the Story mode, it's really meant to be played in a single sitting, and then played again and again getting different combos to unlock new stages for the Trial mode or go for the highest score.
Yoshi's Island had a ridiculous number of different enemies in the game (like over ~120), and most of them were brand new creations. So you'd see around 2-4 completely new enemies per level.
The bosses were screen-filling mode-7 awesomeness, where you had to beat them all in interesting ways. From running around the moon pounding pillars, or throwing eggs to indent the body of a slug until you can reach its heart. It's mind boggling how boring Mario 'bop em on the head 3-times' boss fights are in comparison.
The game completely captivated me as a kid. I rented it so many times. "Wanna rent a new game?"
"Nah, I want to rent Yoshi's Island again!"
Nintendo hasn't felt that creative to me ever since.
(yes, I consider Yoshi's Island the GOAT)
The bosses were screen-filling mode-7 awesomeness, where you had to beat them all in interesting ways. From running around the moon pounding pillars, or throwing eggs to indent the body of a slug until you can reach its heart. It's mind boggling how boring Mario 'bop em on the head 3-times' boss fights are in comparison.
The game completely captivated me as a kid. I rented it so many times. "Wanna rent a new game?"
"Nah, I want to rent Yoshi's Island again!"
Nintendo hasn't felt that creative to me ever since.
(yes, I consider Yoshi's Island the GOAT)