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Vonnegut

Banned
May 27, 2018
1,082
Sexual assualt and bad twitter jokes are absolutely not the same thing

No, they're not. I agree. However, I remember reading multiple threads on Reddit from people claiming that what happened to Franken was a hit job by the right in order to deflect from a scandal that was plaguing the right wing at the time. And maybe it was, but people were arguing vehemently that Franken shouldn't have resigned and that the Democratic party was wrong to pressure him to do so. And I'm seeing a similar sentiment from people in this thread, who are claiming that Disney folded to the whims of the alt-right. It does not matter to me who brought these tweets to light. I didn't even know it was Mike Cernovich (sp?) who spearheaded this thing until recently. And knowing that didn't make me feel like Disney made a bad decision. I still think Disney made a good decision, just as they made a good decision in firing Roseanne.
 

broncobuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,139
Why would they be knowledgable. A directing gig can be given purely on knowing a person or getting recommended. A lot of places don't thoroughly screen candidates. It's strange to say Disney must have known because of his reputation or Troma films.

Companies have gotten more social media savvy, and he must've been hired in 2011? Don't know if they did it back then.

fwiw the 2012 petition to have him removed from GOTG was over Gunn's homophobic jokes/remarks. Unclear if Disney was ever aware of all that but he apologized at the time. Regardless, I don't believe the petition covered these rape, pedophile, etc jokes.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Holy fuck...just like that huh?
If I was in the entertainment industry I would delete my Twitter now and never return. People really dredging celebrity time feeds right now? Just for gotcha moments from different time periods. They going to find a lot of shit because the world was a much different place then. I wouldn't doubt the people doing the dredging were just as bad back then (if not worse) but they are not celebrities.


On the flip side, you a stupid motherfucker if you use Twitter. You see this shit happening all the time and you continue to use that shit? Dumb as fuck man. You cant be calling people out on Twitter unless you got the squeakiest of clean records and the only way that could happen if you were born yesterday. Average folk have said some dumb shit we ain't proud of. To say you never did is unbelievable. Also to think fans actually love you and got your back? Even dumber.

House of Mouse had to take the white gloves off and eject dude off the most popular series marvel got basically. Wouldn't be Friday with out some shit popping off.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
People can change for a myriad of reasons, but what's important is that they change. This incident can be looked at as a reason not to change, which is the point I'm trying to make. Especially on the younger and more impressionable that Gamergate and the Alt Right work so hard to recruit and brainwash.

I think the desire to change should come from a sincere place and not be viewed a way to improve your situation by switching teams.

Not all people who act shitty are shitty to the core. Sometimes you just need a little help to be better. Looking at this attack on someone who has tried to change since and be better can easily discourage those people from trying to be better as well.

Everybody needs a catalyst to change, sure. It might be witnessing a horrible act, or encountering a person you thought you hated but turned out to be good, for example. It could be anything. I don't see how Gunn's situation here would cancel out any of that. If it would, I would think that person was not genuine at all in the first place. I'm personally not looking to entertain non-genuine opportunists who are just looking to flee a sinking ship or whatever.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Cool. Well there goes the business he runs. His wife looks after the kids, so there's no income for them now. Wonder how they'll get by?

There goes my job too. It'll be interesting to see how I go with my home loan payments with no income. Probably have to sell my place and move back in with my parents.

Because of a handful of tasteless words. No actual actions, just dumb words.

Does that truly seem right to you?
By your actual logic, he could yell anything offensive thing, call it a joke, and you'd be okay with it because he has a family and you need money. Do you not see how that's fucked up?
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
This absolutely sucks. Totally not needed.

But I get why Disney bounced. $$$. I just wish we didn't have misplaced ill intentioned crusades in the first place.

Anyway, Gunn should be well off. He'll hopefully learn from this and move on.
 

Syder

The Moyes are Back in Town
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
12,543
He was a Troma writer his tweets are 100% the type of shit that ends up in Troma films.
in that context, the tweets seem less like random, edgy jokes and more like the style of humour he's actually into.

Seems like Disney really didn't think this hire through.

Testing the waters? No but I don't think any comedian tests the waters when they put out the joke. Either the joke was good and the use it again or it was bad and they get rid of it.
A joke being good or not and using it again if it is good is what I mean by 'testing the waters', but I don't think that is what those tweets were.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
He also apologized before he was fired, both in 2012 and yesterday, and neither apology saved him. Apparently, what he should have done was the right-wing playbook: delete the tweets, ramble about the deep state and a conspiracy against him, something about false allegations and feminism, and deny any wrongdoing. Then he'd still have a job.

His apology from 2012 appears to have been for a different set of crappy posts.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,201
Companies have gotten more social media savvy, and he must've been hired in 2011? Don't know if they did it back then.

fwiw the 2012 petition to have him removed from GOTG was over Gunn's homophobic jokes/remarks. Unclear if Disney was ever aware of all that but he apologized at the time. Regardless, I don't believe the petition covered these rape, pedophile, etc jokes.

lol are people seriously acting like you could make pedo and raping sleeping people jokes from 2009 - 2012 and not get fired because it was so different?
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
The jokes themselves were very distasteful and disgusting, but Gunn himself is a changed man. The fact that he opposes Trump and this lead to him getting fired is what is really grinding alot of our gears.
 

Shauni

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,728
Can you name somebody on the other side who's been fired for crass jokes they made 10 years ago when they've seemingly grown since then that's been celebrated by the left?

This sounds a lot like saying this is a matter of purity testing, when nobody's provided evidence it isn't just mass reporting from the alt-right (which is a tactic they're known for)

Honestly, Gun getting fired isn't the only consequence of this. It's how people will quickly blame it on different sections of the left or draw up false equivalences just because they have a hunch.

Yeah, I kind of wanted to make a post like this too. I get being disappointed Gunn got fired, but in the end, it makes sense why Disney did it when these tweets got drug up again considering. The fact that, at the drop of a hat, this supposed left-leaning forum is ready to howl about the 'progressive left' and all their puritt tests sets off such an alarm for me. I feel like the irony is lost on most that why they're railing against 'purity tests' as divisive while doing it themselves in a different way.
 

SageShinigami

Member
Oct 27, 2017
30,474
The end result of "receipt" culture. You're accountable for some shit you said 10 years ago that was supposed to be ephemeral, but in the digital age now nothing is. And I mean yeah, if you say some wild shit while you have a job and get caught that's one thing. But those tweets predate Guardian 1's release by half a decade. So the door we're opening here is that you can lose your job at any point for some stuff you said from several years before you worked there. That makes me uncomfortable.

I disliked the Guardians' films but its sucky this guy basically lost his job for voicing dissent against a puppet of a President that some fucking losers on Reddit worship.
 

mugurumakensei

Elizabeth, I’m coming to join you!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,328
I am just extending your plea to its logical conclusion.

If we forgive some people for their past behavior and give them a chance, do we forgive ALL people for their past behavior and give them a chance, regardless of their political worldview?

I am looking for a baseline standard that can be universally applied - like a federal law.

Time plays a factor. If these tweets happened last week or even in the past year, that would definitely be a legit reason to fire him.

Severity and intent matter. Someone raping someone 40 years ago that was never punished should definitely eventually be punished. Hateful speech targeted at specific actual groups (f word, n word, and so on) deserve punishment always. Calling someone a p word or making dark jokes gets the side eye but unless there's ill intent, it can be forgiven.

Finally, context matters. If you were doing edgy pr-ish stunts that would have been appropriate for a prior company and time, it's elgible for scrutinization during the hiring phase if you're worried about image. Past that, the hiring is in an implicit forgiveness or acceptance of past work.
 

RupertM

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
1,482
His disgraceful tweets were there for 10 years. He apologized for his past jokes 6 years ago. His jokes were part of his early movie making career. Disney knew about all of this.

Only when he attacked Trump and the alt-right in general and they started a defamation campaign did he get fired. So yes. Of course it was because of that.
So basically Disney does not credit for this... for doing the right thing? Disney is essentially protecting only their brand and corporate interests and don't actually care about his vile tweets?
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,865
There is a whole subplot about a dad's sexual obsession with his daughter in Tromeo and Juliet.

You should watch it. One of the funnier Shakespeare flicks out there.

It is and certainly one of the higher brow Troma flicks.

Its funny that very few got a chuckle out of Lloyd Kaufman's cameo in GoTG. I couldn't stop laughing.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,424
Phoenix, AZ
There's an occasional pedo type joke as a good half of us are kid free types and there's lots of good natured razzing between us and the parents. Usually it's mostly reasons to not have kids type jokes, but occasionally some darker ones. Probably nothing as out there as these tweets. Tamer stuff like (spoilered for the easily offended)
What did the dad say to the pedophile at the beach? Get out of my son!
Things like that get a big laugh out of those with darker sense of humor and a groan chuckle from others.

I'm glad we finally dropped the pretense y'all, and have fully admitted the position of "the jokes are actually funny!". I mean, I knew the conservation was going to end up this place given the excuses already being made.

But I'm the one dying on a hill here.
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310
A joke being good or not and using it again if it is good is what I mean by 'testing the waters', but I don't think that is what those tweets were.

Well stand up would get rid of bad jokes because its their routine... but like how are you as a viewer able to tell via twitter whether or not the joke was testing the waters? They published it so they must have thought it was worthy of being seen. Thats what I mean when I say there is no testing in the twittersphere... Once you submit IT is your routine.
 

Ponn

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,171
Cool. Well there goes the business he runs. His wife looks after the kids, so there's no income for them now. Wonder how they'll get by?

There goes my job too. It'll be interesting to see how I go with my home loan payments with no income. Probably have to sell my place and move back in with my parents.

Because of a handful of tasteless words. No actual actions, just dumb words.

Does that truly seem right to you?

So pedophile jokes are ok because we can't have people fired? I'm assuming if pedophile jokes are ok then racist and gay jokes are fine too right? Here's a crazy thought, maybe those jokes aren't appropriate and don't need to be told if your job is that important. Maybe, perhaps? At least think on it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,146
The idea he should've deleted the tweets is strange considering we've seen countless examples of things being on the internet forever via arcive.org and other means.

Y'all would've been mad if he deleted them and claimed he was hiding his past.
 

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,880
I mean, the end game of this whole discussion is that it's not very wise to make public social media posts about pedophilia and rape. Regardless of when you posted them.
 

Psychotext

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,703
I'm assuming there are probably businesses out there now that will scrub this shit for you?

I imagine a shitload of millennials are going to struggle with this in a big way... so there's certainly money to be made here! Hell, I think I'd have done this myself the second Disney got anywhere near what I was doing.
 

Neece

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,201
I'm glad we finally dropped the pretense y'all, and have fully admitted the position of "the jokes are actually funny!". I mean, I knew the conservation was going to end up this place given the excuses already being made.

But I'm the one dying on a hill here.

It's crazy. Very eye opening thread for resetera. For me at least.
 

Gaia Lanzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,672
It just feels like people are only against this because some alt right dude is the one who started it. That seems wrong to me.
The same alt-right dude is also known to have said and tweeted disgusting shit as well. It's hypocrisy, and you just know by default alt-right shitstains are a disgusting, terrible bunch in themselves. They probably say the most vile shit out there, but are willing to point out the splinter on another persons eye when they got a plank sticking out of their own.
 

ryseing

Bought courtside tickets just to read a book.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,546
For lovers
I'm cool with people being able to change over a decade but people need to cool it with "2009 was a different time" nonsense. I get that some of you are young but 2009 is not that different than now.

Didn't The Hangover come out in 2009? You know, the top grossing comedy of the year where most of the male cast calls each other f**gots?

2009 was absolutely a different time come on. People had no idea what the fuck woke was.
 

Valiant

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,310
So pedophile jokes are ok because we can't have people fired? I'm assuming if pedophile jokes are ok then racist and gay jokes are fine too right? Here's a crazy thought, maybe those jokes aren't appropriate and don't need to be told if your job is that important. Maybe, perhaps? At least think on it.

He didnt say any of that while working at Disney.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
My final take on this:

If there's no incentive to ever change your ideas or views, or apologize, then there is no incentive for our enemies to ever become our allies. And guess what...our enemies outnumber us. We, the marginalized, are outnumbered. White people, men, straight people, cis people, completely outnumber us. The only way they will not destroy us is if we occasionally forgive them and allow them onto our side to become allies in our fight. Every single white person, every single man, every single straight or cis person on the planet Earth has made, at some point, crude, offensive, or overtly bigoted comments. It is up to us to decide if the person is repentant enough to be forgiven and welcomed into our conflict. If we destroy, scorched Earth-style, every single person who could potentially assist us, because of something they said a long time ago when it was socially acceptable (and yes, make no mistake, stupid/offensive jokes about rape or pedophilia were completely socially acceptable on the internet in 2009 and to some extent, still are), then we will have no allies.

Is it better to go down in flames and die while maintaining 100% moral purity, or is it better to make peace with your enemies from time to time so that they may help you achieve victory? It's the question every revolutionary group has been asked, and different groups have reacted differently. But the winning groups all chose the same answer.

I've got a few things to say about this

1. This whole forgiveness thing usually only comes out when a white male does something wrong. Hell as soon as people hear about it for the first time, they downplay the seriousness of the incident, start talking about how no one is perfect and we've all done something wrong, then turn to how somehow everyone "deserves" forgiveness and a second chance

Think about that.

2. If by enemies you mean conservative voters and members of the alt-right. 60 million voted for Trump. Over 100 million eligible people did not vote at all in 2016. THOSE are the people that need targeting. Extend an olive branch to them instead of reaching across the aisle to people who would spit in your hand before they shake it.

3. Its not about purity tests, some people are beyond redemption. It should not be on us to make them allies by giving them incentives. If someone wants to become an ally, then the onus is on them to change and prove it. People are also in their rights to not consider them an ally even after that. That should not matter. To give an example if you are a former homophobe who changes his ways and tries to be an ally. You advocate for gay rights, you march you do the whole works. However one day you run into a gay couple you harassed one day and try to apologize. They don't accept it and say they want nothing to do with you. If you walk away from that reaction, shrug and say that you're done with all this advocating and voting Trump in 2020. You were never an ally to begin with.

Being an ally means doing the right thing, regardless of how people perceive you. If you change their minds, fine, if you never do, then you keep on doing the right thing.

4. What do you mean destroy, scorched earth style? That is complete hyperbole. Gunn got fired from Disney and by the looks of this thread still has a lot of people on his side. If he wants to continue being an ally and fighting the good fight, no one is stopping him. The same goes for any one who wants to fight for what is right. A "former" racist might not be welcomed open arms to a BLM meeting, but they don't have to welcome him. He can donate money, use his status to talk about racism with his family and friends. Stop asking the oppressed to welcome their (former) oppressors with open arms no matter what said oppressor has done in the name of winning this war.
 

Deleted member 9486

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
4,867
Then why are you depressed about not being able to tell your pedo jokes at work? Go ahead and keep doing it. You just probably shouldn't tweet them and then expect to be hired by a family friendly company .

I'm not depressed and it was a colleague that told the joke, I merely laughed. I'm probably the most reserved of the group.

I just think all this outrage over some old jokes long since apologized for is absurd, as is his being fired when people like the shitbag at Pixar kept their job so long. But it is what it is with outrage culture and especially this site. I'm done here. Even being liberal I just can't take the constant bitterness, anger and negativity on here. I'll continue being an ally and donating to LBGTQ, environmental and homelessness charities, volunteering, voting, calling my reps and so on as I care greatly about such causes and making an actual difference. I just can't be a part of this negativity anymore. I can make a difference with being miserable all the time like so many on here and need to get away for my own mental health. Reading all this negativity just makes me want to drink.

Cheers and keep up the fight, all! Just try to stop letting it make so many of you miserable so much of the time. Life is short. Enjoying it whole fighting all the bullshit!
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Yeah, I kind of wanted to make a post like this too. I get being disappointed Gunn got fired, but in the end, it makes sense why Disney did it when these tweets got drug up again considering. The fact that, at the drop of a hat, this supposed left-leaning forum is ready to howl about the 'progressive left' and all their puritt tests sets off such an alarm for me. I feel like the irony is lost on most that why they're railing against 'purity tests' as divisive while doing it themselves in a different way.

Lol at Era being progressive.
 

Sei

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,712
LA
lol are people seriously acting like you could make pedo and raping sleeping people jokes from 2009 - 2012 and not get fired because it was so different?

He was not working for Disney then, and was writing very dark humor comedy at the time.

It's like saying any comedian that does dark humor, can't get any other job in the future because of what they said before, even if they apologized and don't do it any more.
 

Jom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
Purity tests will doom us all. Gunn is an ally. Allies aren't perfect, we are all flawed and say dumb shit. Context is key here, Gunn was fired over things he already apoligized for after a campaign ran by a guy that literally came up with Pizzagate. That shouldn't be how we handle things.
Dude, it's just a job. If he's an ally, he'll still be one despite not directing any more GOTG movies. If he stops being one because he's salty about repercussions from his own actions, then he probably wasn't really much of an ally to begin with.

What an ally would do at this point is take what he did, learn from it (from what he and a lot of people say, it seems he had already changed somewhat), and also teach other people to stop being shitty people.
 

broncobuster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,139
lol are people seriously acting like you could make pedo and raping sleeping people jokes from 2009 - 2012 and not get fired because it was so different?

No? How are you getting that? Point is this is the first time they've had a magnifying lens over his old disgusting tweets and blogs. The petition topic of 2012 focused on his homophobic jokes.

When they came to light in 2012, they did not kick him out, I suppose because only LGBT groups and women complained.

This, basically.