Honestly the only people that should find this homophonic is homophobic people because they think being gay is a negative
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REUTERS: New York Times Under Fire For 'Homophobic' Cartoon Of Trump And Putin
- Thread starter Redhead On Moped
- Start date
That's not the punchline - once again, don't let your values be weaponized against you. The joke is absolute adoration and submission to somebody hostile (somebody who absolutely hates you, in this case). It's not "haha, gay".
Those are the only two people dissed here. The cartoon has nothing to do with any other person on the planet.
Those are the only two people dissed here. The cartoon has nothing to do with any other person on the planet.
I'm kind of sick of the assertion that political cartoons showing any form of same-sex relations inherently represent homosexuality or gay people in a derogatory manner. Or that it's somehow commentary about gay people in general.
ah! got it now ty! :) basically huelen wrongly assuming kirblar is straight
It is homophobic because it uses homosexuality and the assumed male on male submission of it as the joke, as the tool of humiliation. And I am not talking about this video, but about the many many jokes out there, like the blowjob thing.
Do you think our sexuality should be used as part of a humiliation "joke"? Do you think that it wouldn't be sexist to have cartoons of Trump fucking Theresa May because of what happened during Trump's visit?
Liberals need to self crit tbh.
My general test is if you inserted a hetero-normative couple would it change the message or tone? It doesn't seem like it does.
I guess it's easier to feel this way because we know neither is identified homosexual in real life so it gets mixed in as an aspect of the cartoon's "not-normal" feel?
I guess it's easier to feel this way because we know neither is identified homosexual in real life so it gets mixed in as an aspect of the cartoon's "not-normal" feel?
I kinda feel like if you can't see this for what it is within 0.68 seconds then you are likely the type of voter to get easily swayed every news cycle. Like, no ability to view events within context.
And that's why this tactic is so effective. Cause now who's focused on Trump regarding this conversation? It's all about people (republicans) that via their policies and inaction have made clear they absolutely detest gay folk but want to carry the banner for political correctness when it suits their agenda? Pffffftttttt.
This cartoon is obviously anti-Trump and not anti-Gay. To not concede that to me is ridiculous.
Would the punchline be any different if it depicted Trump as a baby and Putin as his father instead?
Got it. I was speaking in more generalities, as in, when most people think of vanilla oral sex, they think of someone giving and someone receiving. This is the general metaphor the cartoon is working off of (performing oral is submissive, and Trump was submissive to Putin. Like I said, it's lazy). Of course there's a whole spectrum of sexual experiences and this is not the rule for all relationships, but really most metaphors break down if you overanalyze them.
OP
OP
I was not implying anything about their orientation at all. I do apologize if it seemed that way. Again, as I've stated prior, my point is that queer people don't have to feel this is homophobic as that is valid, but queer people seeing this as inappropriate and homophobic is also valid. Implying that the latter is a far-right action is not something I agree with, and that is why I was asking if they felt that was the case.
So yes, I am sorry for not wording myself in a clear enough fashion. I am valid, you are valid, and I know now you aren't queersplaining or borderline queersplaining either. Sadly, I've seen too much of it, even here, and it's time that we stop putting ourselves down, at least that is how I feel. We can all do better, so let's all do better.
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On one hand, the right is yelling about libs being the real homophones because of some crass cartoon making fun of dear leader. On the other
this is true
this is true
Queersplaining, via UrbanDictionary. ;)
It's not the butt of the joke. The kissing part is like the kissing stuff in Arrested Development S4. It's deliberately gross, unsexy and unromantic. The point is to analogize Trump to a lovestruck teenager and how gross that relationship is to the rest of us seeing it play out on Monday.
Yep. Lots of ways to make fun of political leaders without slighting anyone else. Here are some comics.
These don't put anyone but Trump and Putin down.
That last one puts down cat lovers/owners.
How many jokes were made about Obama and Merkel's puppy dog eyes? We have whole SNL skits about it. And what? Difference is they were decent people so it was more gentle, but the content is exactly the same.
I don't think anyone here is mistaking this thread for what it is. The particulars of the cartoon can still warrant a discussion while realizing that it was posted by a Trump supporter who intends to sow discord.
I'm pretty dang sure it's not homophobic in intent. The idea is that Trump worships Putin to the point of being in love with him. It's not bad because it's gay, it's bad because Russia/Putin are hostile to the US to the point of interfering in our elections, while Trump worships the ground he walks on.
Now, I'm sure it could be taken as homophobic by some of those who have had shitty gay jokes thrown at them their whole life. How to react to jokes (or any media) that are not intentionally demeaning, but when viewed in a wider context can be seen as demeaning is a more interesting discussion for sure.
Now, I'm sure it could be taken as homophobic by some of those who have had shitty gay jokes thrown at them their whole life. How to react to jokes (or any media) that are not intentionally demeaning, but when viewed in a wider context can be seen as demeaning is a more interesting discussion for sure.
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Maybe once the lgbt community is completely culterally normalized and just considered another regular aspect of society like any other it will be a less sensitive subject.
It's offensive because the two men represented have, as far as we know (and we know a lot), represented themselves as exclusively heterosexual.
Portraying them as homosexual as a put down is portraying homosexuality as a negative. It's the whole joke. There are plenty of ways to portray Trump as slavishly devoted to Putin without going there. Implying that homosexuality is the only way to send that message is akin to the white girls who felt they HAD to don blackface to properly do a Crazy Eyes costume. It's not only wrong, it's offensive, narrowminded and so damn typical. I mean, you're BARELY a rung above fart joke. But "lol" I guess.
Ehh, I dunno. The message isn't really "this is bad because it involves two men" but rather "this is bad because the President has obviously been compromised".
If the comic involved a male and a female leader getting romantic, that wouldn't be heterophobic or anything. The point would just be that their relationship is suspiciously/disturbingly way too close.
If the comic involved a male and a female leader getting romantic, that wouldn't be heterophobic or anything. The point would just be that their relationship is suspiciously/disturbingly way too close.
Imagine if Trump was the female, how do the jokes about a female trump sucking Putin's penis would go over? There is a reason why the joke is Trump sucking Putin penises and not the other way.
Except that it's a trusted source for news and has been responsible for breaking some of the most important stories in American history.
This is the issue. He's not a slavish lackey or a pet or puppet. He's overcome with adoration for him to the point that he's acting as though he's in love. It all stems from his unusual obsession with Putin himself.
Homosexuality is not the punchline. Putin and Trump's relationship is. It's basically saying that literally can't get any closer. They are about as intimate as they can be. No, it's not the only way the message could have been sent but this way is not attempting to be offensive either.
At the very least, it's low hanging fruit and not very creative to poke fun at an obviously odd political pairing that seems bizarrely intimate where Trump has trust for Putin that Putin didn't seem to earn, especially in terms of how Russia has been acting towards the U.S. There is obviously the aspect of framing a couple straight males as a gay couple that is used as an insult and a way to emasculate the men. It might be a bit of a stretch to say the full intent is that, but it certainly isn't supposed to be painting their close in any favorable way.
I get why the optics of this being the go-to joke about their relationship would rub people the wrong way, but at the same time, in the context of political humor, I get why this bizarre pairing is often depicted in such a way since there is no conceivable reason that Trump should have such a good relationship with Russia/Putin of all countries and really terrible relationships (or at the very least unstable and antagonistic relationships) with all of our closest allies. The best way to make sense of it is, short of knowing Putin has dirt on Trump, is that Trump is unusually infatuated with Putin to the point where he is putting his faith in Putin above his own country.
I get why the optics of this being the go-to joke about their relationship would rub people the wrong way, but at the same time, in the context of political humor, I get why this bizarre pairing is often depicted in such a way since there is no conceivable reason that Trump should have such a good relationship with Russia/Putin of all countries and really terrible relationships (or at the very least unstable and antagonistic relationships) with all of our closest allies. The best way to make sense of it is, short of knowing Putin has dirt on Trump, is that Trump is unusually infatuated with Putin to the point where he is putting his faith in Putin above his own country.
It's not homophobic but Republicans are going to use this as an opportunity to pretend that they care about homophobia.
I disagree.
If we're to take the joke at face value, and say that the humor is in their "romance" for each other, that still isn't accurate, because the "romance" is completely one-sided. Putin shows absolutely no affection towards Trump on the world stage like what would be implied by a "romance". He treats him like a lackey. Like a hungry dog. That dynamic alone gives away the intention of this joke as being nothing more than "Gay LOL."
The joke isn't that Trump is bad because he's in love with another man. The joke is that Trump is bad because the man he happens to be in bed with is Putin, the president of Russia, enemy of the United States. The joke would still work if Putin were a woman. I don't see anything homophobic about it.
I originally interpreted it not as "lol they are so gay" but rather "Trump's infatuation with Putin is so extreme that it borders on being sexual", although I can see why people would see it as the first way and be upset about it. If the intention was the former then people are right to be upset.
Edit: I also agree that it is low hanging fruit, whether or not it is homophobic.
Edit: I also agree that it is low hanging fruit, whether or not it is homophobic.
That analogy would land if the cartoon went out of its way to denote them with stereotypical "gay" behavior and depictions that commonly marginalize gay people, rather than it just being someone cartoonishly infatuated with someone else. That's not a comment on if it's not trite or overdone as a joke.
This is how I read it as well. I have no doubt the right are disingenuous in their outrage, but it is kinda a lame and dumb cartoon that's problematic and the NYT can and should do better.
My problem is that the cartoon depicts them as mutually infatuated with each other. Which, if you pay attention to the dynamic between Trump and Putin, isn't accurate at all.
My problem is that the cartoon depicts them as mutually infatuated with each other. Which, if you pay attention to the dynamic between Trump and Putin, isn't accurate at all.
My problem is that the cartoon depicts them as mutually infatuated with each other. Which, if you pay attention to the dynamic between Trump and Putin, isn't accurate at all.
Not really homophobic, and the majority of people getting bent out of shape about it are trolls and right wing scumbags.
That triple post, though. Y'all scared me when I saw my notifications.
I thought that was supposed to be Trump's fantasies as he sees Putin on TV.
How the fuck are people not seeing this? The cartoon depicts Trump fantasizing about making out with a shirtless Putin while tweeking his nipples and riding on a unicorn through a rainbow field. THE JOKE IS ABOUT TRUMP BEING GAY FOR PUTIN.
The joke characterizes Trump's subservience to Putin as a homosexual urge coded as an attack on his masculinity. That's what's offensive. Equating gay to being immaculated. As well as using homosexuality as a shock factor. It's fine if you thought it was funny but at least understand that it's offensive for those reasons.
The joke characterizes Trump's subservience to Putin as a homosexual urge coded as an attack on his masculinity. That's what's offensive. Equating gay to being immaculated. As well as using homosexuality as a shock factor. It's fine if you thought it was funny but at least understand that it's offensive for those reasons.
Royalan is correct in that it should be displayed as more of an unrequited love than a mutual romance. The correct depiction would be something like Trump with hearts in his eyes and lust in his heart with Putin essentially smirking and snubbing him as he doesn't really care beyond what's in it for him.
Where have you been? From today:
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/17/...ackage-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
A great summary:
The tone policing from some is getting fucking absurd. There's absolutely nothing homophobic about this.
Me neither. They're making fun that President Trump is in love with President Putin not that's he's to be made fun of because he likes men. I fail to see the problem other than this being a textbook example of political correctness going too far and I HATE that term how it's being hijacked by the alt right but this right here is just that.
This stupid "outrage" is nothing but a distraction to cause division between opponents of Trump and we're falling right into the alt rights pocket
No, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying the joke of the cartoon is based on a common assumption regarding the giver and receiver during oral sex. I agree with you that this is not the case for all instances of oral sex (as you mentioned, this doesn't apply with 69 or a sub receiving oral), and that these examples poke holes in the metaphor that the cartoon is working off of - however that's common for most metaphors really.
OP
OP
You do make a valid point. While of course queer people feeling this is inappropriate or unacceptable is absolutely valid, those that have no stake in this, that don't care about queerphobia, or queer-haters, could also use this as a platform against criticism of these 2 political leaders. That is not good, and leaders should absolutely be questioned, criticized, and yes, made fun of and ridiculed as well. At the same time, we cannot and must not let that fear be used as a way to step on the valid points of any marginalized and/or minority group, such as queer people who might validly feel this is not appropriate.
I don't know how many times I have to say it, but here goes.
1. I didn't vote for the President.
2. I don't support or endorse the president or any other current politician.
3. I don't love the President.
4. I don't hate the President.
5. I am an independent.
6. I am a queer person.
7. I absolutely believe that no leader should be untouchable from legitimate criticism, ridicule, satire, opinion, etc. These are men, not gods and should never be untouchable.
8. I believe we can make fun of leaders while at the same time not putting minority groups down.
If you have any questions, you are more than welcome to PM me and have a decent conversation, but please don't spread misinformation about me or my political beliefs.
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The problem is here.
Just think about how casually you made this statement, when in reality there are plenty of more accurate (and equally comical) ways to describe Trump's behavior towards Putin.