Games for Which There is No "Definitive" Version

kubev · Jul 17, 2018

I've been replaying Castlevania: Symphony of the Night (SotN) after having unlocked the version in Castlevania: The Dracula X Chronicles (DXC) for PSP, and I'd forgotten how bad it is in some respects. This got me to thinking about the different versions of SotN and how there's no one "definitive" version of the game. Each one has a little something to offer that the other versions don't, and each one has its own shortcomings.

The PlayStation (1) version performs beautifully and as intended, and it's the only version with all visual effects intact. The Xbox 360 version arguably performs better, making it more suitable for speed-running, but the improved performance eliminates what I believe was intentional slowdown after boss battles; unfortunately, the Xbox 360 version lacks the castle FMVs to cut down on file size. The Saturn version has the most exclusive content, but said content doesn't match the quality of the original content, and the performance is TERRIBLE. (Also, unfortunately, the Saturn version's the only one that wasn't localized for other regions.) The DXC version has its own exclusive content, but its implementation feels really half-assed; this version also sounds pretty awful.

Are there any other games that you can think of for which there's no "definitive" or "best" version, due to differences in graphical quality, performance, content or other factors? Please avoid just mentioning games or posting box art without some sort of elaboration.

Juke Joint Jezebel · Jul 17, 2018

Captain Toad: Treasure Trackers. Wii U version had 4 unique stages. Switch/3DS versions took them out and replaced them with four Mario Odyssey themed stages.

Tagyhag · Jul 17, 2018

While I disagree with this, I have seen the argument that RE4 has no definitive edition due to the Wii edition.

Normally I'd consider the new PC port of RE4 to be the best, ESPECIALLY with the texture mod, but quite a lot of people have said how they'd never play it in any way other than the Wiimote aiming.

I enjoyed the Wiimote aiming but I think it made the game way too easy, that said, I think enough people have that opinion that no version could majorly be considered "Definitive".

Strangelove_77 · Jul 17, 2018

What sounds bad about the version in DXC? The voices actors are different but all the music and sound effects sound the same as in the PS1 version.
Plus you got Maria as a better playable character than the one on Saturn and arguably a better translation as well.

Knight613 · Jul 17, 2018

Final Fantasy Tactics comes to mind. Original had rough translation. The PSP version had some performance issues when casting spells (though granted I think that could be fixed if you had CFW installed). Then the mobile version...

brinstar · Jul 17, 2018

Persona 3 and Dragon Quest VIII are usually the popular mentions when this topic comes up.

Persona 3 Portable allows you to control your party members and has a playable female MC but the layout of the game is simplified compared to the PS2 version and I think the FES version of the PS2 original has its own extra content.

Dragon Quest VIII 3DS adds a ton of stuff like visible enemy encounters, new stories and dungeons and party members but the graphics aren't as nice as the PS2 original and (in the US version's case) is missing the orchestrated soundtrack.

KingWillance · Jul 17, 2018

Persona 3 really ought to have a version with the Portable and FES content. Hopefully a remaster with all of it isn't out of the question

Jessie · Jul 17, 2018

Final Fantasy VI. Do you prefer better music and color shading, or a better translation? Do you prefer emulation or playing super old consoles, or playing on your phone/PC with horrible patchwork graphics?

Deleted member 23212 · Jul 17, 2018

Soulcalibur II. The HD version is still missing Link.

bunkitz · Jul 17, 2018

Persona 3. It's got two additional versions, one for the PSP known as Persona 3 Portable, and another for the PS2 called "Persona 3 FES." The latter adds a whole new campaign set after the events of the original, while the former adds the option to play as a female protagonist, among other things. There is sadly no version of the game that includes both.

Just waiting for that inevitable HD remake to include and optimize all these additions.

ghibli99 · Jul 17, 2018

I didn't know the 360 version of SOTN removed the FMVs. That's actually a good thing though since they're so terrible compared to the quality of the actual game. KCET rocked at 2D at that time, but their cinematic team sucked (Gradius Gaiden's opening FMV was similarly awful IIRC).

Deleted member 42484 · Jul 17, 2018

Juke Joint Jezebel said:
Captain Toad: Treasure Trackers. Wii U version had 4 unique stages. Switch/3DS versions took them out and replaced them with four Mario Odyssey themed stages.

The Wii U stages were just straight rips from 3D World where Toad slowly walks to the end of the level. The Switch version has unique levels.

I think I'd say Donkey Kong Country Returns doesn't have a definitive edition. The Wii version is better looking and 60fps, but the 3DS has more control options and extra levels.

Robin · Jul 17, 2018

Persona 3 and Final Fantasy VI have been listed already but are great examples. Kingdom Hearts 2 comes to mind as well, as there are a lot of criticisms of the HD Remasters and Final Mix in general. Chrono Trigger as well, although the DS version is thoroughly the best version, it also introduces it's own issues into the mix.

Denman said:
The Wii U stages were just straight rips from 3D World where Toad slowly walks to the end of the level. The Switch version has unique levels.

I think I'd say Donkey Kong Country Returns doesn't have a definitive edition. The Wii version is better looking and 60fps, but the 3DS has more control options and extra levels.

Yep, this too!

Hydes · Jul 17, 2018

Super Mario 64.

It improved the graphics in the DS version, but added a run button instead of just tilting the analog stick more or less to go faster or slower (like the original N64 version).
Not only that, but Super Mario Galaxy 2's throwback galaxy showed how awesome a definitive edition can look.

BigTnaples · Jul 17, 2018

Silent Hill 2 from what I hear.

GhostTrick · Jul 17, 2018

MGS3.
MGS3D has a new and better control scheme (Crouch walking, 3rd person aiming while moving, think MGS4 gameplay) but worse visuals and performance than MGS3 HD.

Robin · Jul 17, 2018

Hydes said:
Super Mario 64.

It improved the graphics in the DS version, but added a run button instead of just tilting the analog stick more or less to go faster or slower (like the original N64 version).
Not only that, but Super Mario Galaxy 2's throwback galaxy showed how awesome a definitive edition can look.

I'd argue that none of the DS version's improvements are actually good, making the original the definitive. There's new content, but it grinds the game down to a halt and effectively introduces the same kind of elements that people blast DK64 for.

kubev · Jul 17, 2018

Strangelove77 said:
What sounds bad about the version in DXC? The voices actors are different but all the music and sound effects sound the same as in the PS1 version.
Plus you got Maria as a better playable character than the one on Saturn and arguably a better translation as well.

The voice acting is a matter of opinion, and I actually like bits from each version's voice acting. Assuming that the DXC version uses the same sound effect, I have to assume that there's some sort of filtering applied or just some general emulation issue with the audio that pitches things incorrectly. There are some sound effects that are barely audible because they don't seem to play properly. Both versions of Maria have a little something to offer. I prefer Saturn Maria, as she's just more versatile, but I do respect the fact that DXC Maria's truer to the original character. The main issue with DXC Maria is that fighting Galamoth as her isn't so much difficult as it is tedious; she's clearly not balanced properly for that battle. Fighting Maria in the DXC version is an absolute joke; you can defeat her before you even go into the boss room. It's like they didn't test the exclusive content in the slightest.

ghibli99 said:
I didn't know the 360 version of SOTN removed the FMVs. That's actually a good thing though since they're so terrible compared to the quality of the actual game. KCET rocked at 2D at that time, but their cinematic team sucked (Gradius Gaiden's opening FMV was similarly awful IIRC).

I agree to a point, but it really bummed me out that they couldn't manage to come up with new FMVs for DXC. We're talking maybe 30-40 seconds of FMV, if that.

LewieP · Jul 17, 2018

Outrun 2.

There is no content complete version, with some elements being only in the original release, they added more stuff to 2006: Coast to Coast, and then Online Arcade had a bunch of stuff missing.

It's a toss up between Online Arcade and the PC version of 2006 which has the best graphics, since the PC version is generally better, but the HUD is stretched when played in widescreen, where Online Arcade is good but lower resolution.

It really needs a definitive release, even if it had to replace the Ferrari cars with generic sports cars.

Deleted member 14377 · Jul 17, 2018

Jessie said:
Final Fantasy VI. Do you prefer better music and color shading, or a better translation? Do you prefer emulation or playing super old consoles, or playing on your phone/PC with horrible patchwork graphics?

Baffles me. A game that is so widely regarded as one of the best as well as the swan song of a generation and it still hasn't gotten some proper remaster/remake treatment.

No matter what you play, you sacrifice something.

Deleted member 437 · Jul 17, 2018

Chrono Trigger.

I'm sorry, playing on that 2 inch screen is dogshit.

SNES is probably still the best, even though its missing cutscenes and the extra dungeons and extra story.

Blade Wolf · Jul 17, 2018

RESIDENT EVIL 4

Rudolph · Jul 17, 2018

I really want Definitive editions of DQ8 and Persona 3 and I would gladly pay +20-40$ above msrp.

darkside · Jul 17, 2018

Jessie said:
Final Fantasy VI. Do you prefer better music and color shading, or a better translation? Do you prefer emulation or playing super old consoles, or playing on your phone/PC with horrible patchwork graphics?

Yeah. Honestly I feel like this is the case with most of the pre 7 FF. There are no real definitive versions.

Robin · Jul 17, 2018

GhostTrick said:
MGS3.
MGS3D has a new and better control scheme (Crouch walking, 3rd person aiming while moving, think MGS4 gameplay) but worse visuals and performance than MGS3 HD.

I've never agreed with this, tbh. Subsistence controls just fine and I wouldn't consider the alterations in 3D to be improvements. If anything, I think the strongest argument for MGS3 not having a definitive would be between Subsitance and Snake Eater, with the concern being that Subsistance's new camera features actively makes the game too easy, in the same way that Twin Snakes effectively destroys the challenge of MGS1, although to a much lesser degree.

Deleted member 35077 · Jul 17, 2018

Gen one pokemon game. Original has the best variation of the music, and the most freedom. The GBA remake adds in seven new islands to explore; these islands containing new puzzles, trainers, and addition of Johto and Hoenn pokemon. The Let's Go remake takes a more simpler approach with none of these features returning, and outright removing any mention of most of the future pokemon. It also has co-op, trainer customization, and motion controls, but it sadly also doesn't have Gary/Blue as your rival.

GhostTrick · Jul 17, 2018

Mikey Jr. said:
Chrono Trigger.

I'm sorry, playing on that 2 inch screen is dogshit.

SNES is probably still the best, even though its missing cutscenes and the extra dungeons and extra story.

The Steam versions corrects that. And yes it's fixed now (+ it has widescreen support and a high quality soundtrack).

Trigonometrize · Jul 17, 2018

The game where I can't get through more than 10 hours because every time I pick up the alternative version from last time I miss the stuff from the previous version too much to continue. It's agony.

Persona 3

Dinoegg_96 · Jul 17, 2018

Persona 3.

In vanilla Persona 3 you only controlled the MC during battles (you couldn't directly control your teammates, you had tou use commands like "focus on attack" and such). The same goes for Persona 3 FES, which is P3+ some sort of epilogue (called "The Answer"). And then there's Persona 3 Portable, where you had full control over your teammates + Female MC, but it lacked 3D environments (the social part was basically made in a point & click manner, but the dungeons were kept the same), the animated cutscenes and it didn't include The Answer. There were some more changes in gameplay, but I can't comment on that since I've only played P3P.

TheXbox · Jul 17, 2018

Halo: CE.

Framerate on the OG version is terrible, the Anniversary version is capped at 30 FPS, and the MCC, Anniversary, and PC editions all have missing lighting features + other effects. The hit detection is also really goofy on the MCC version -- not sure if that's true for PC and Anniversary as well.

I don't think the OG version is backwards compatible on the XBO yet, but when/if it is - assuming it runs properly - that will be the definitive version. None of the later versions of CE have perfectly captured the original game's aesthetic.

Edit: Multiplayer is even more tricky. I think the PC version is the way to go, especially with the mod support, but good luck finding people to play with you. (And forget about splitscreen.)

GrantDaNasty · Jul 17, 2018

Mentioned already but Persona 3.

the PSP re-release (P3P) added the female MC option and made party members directly controllable, but as a result of technical limitations, they removed the exploration aspect outside of dungeons and reduced it to a series of menu selections. Also, The Answer (the epilogue chapter included in FES) is no longer present, which kinda leaves the PSP version without a clear ending to the MC's fate.

Deleted member 34873 · Jul 17, 2018

Denman said:
The Wii U stages were just straight rips from 3D World where Toad slowly walks to the end of the level. The Switch version has unique levels.

I think I'd say Donkey Kong Country Returns doesn't have a definitive edition. The Wii version is better looking and 60fps, but the 3DS has more control options and extra levels.

Doesn't DCKR have 60FPS on the N3DS tho?

LewieP · Jul 17, 2018

Mikey Jr. said:
Chrono Trigger.

I'm sorry, playing on that 2 inch screen is dogshit.

SNES is probably still the best, even though its missing cutscenes and the extra dungeons and extra story.

I agree SNES is best. The extra content added for the DS version sucks (at least it's entirely optional), some of the battle animations aren't accurately reproduced in any other version, and I prefer the original translation.

foolishoptimist · Jul 17, 2018

I don't feel there's any definitive version of Resident Evil 4.

Having played it on the Wii in horribly low-res graphics but far superior control scheme, I cannot enjoy any of the HD remasters due to the inferior OG control scheme.

If I hadn't played the Wii version or RE5 with the Moves, I'd probably love all the remasters, but I know I'm being shortchanged by Capcom.

kubev · Jul 18, 2018

LewieP said:
I agree SNES is best. The extra content added for the DS version sucks (at least it's entirely optional), some of the battle animations aren't accurately reproduced in any other version, and I prefer the original translation.

Is the extra content from the DS version in the version on Steam? Also, regarding the FMV in the DS version, I always found it odd that certain things that happened within the game engine also happened in the FMV; it felt as though you were watching the same thing twice a lot of the time. Has any version of the game ever addressed this and eliminated the redundancy? If the same thing happens within the game engine AND within the FMV, then I'd rather just see the FMV.

SirNinja · Jul 18, 2018

Final Fantasy IV and VI immediately spring to mind.

FF4 seemingly has a different bonus dungeon in every version of itself. Then there's whether or not the final party is locked at Cecil/Kain/Rosa/Rydia/Edge or whether you can swap in the other party members that joined throughout the story. Then the DS/mobile/PC version added the Augment system and voiced cutscenes but lost quite a bit of the bonus content.

Meanwhile it's pretty disgraceful that, in 2018, the best way to play Final Fantasy VI is the emulated GBA version with several large fan patches. The SNES version contains several significant bugs, and the PC version is a minimum-effort mobile port with ugly sprites and a rare-but-nasty tendency to corrupt saves.

Deleted member 42484 · Jul 18, 2018

cwistofu said:
Doesn't DCKR have 60FPS on the N3DS tho?

I don't think so. Still looks a little choppy on mine. The IQ is also terrible. I much prefer the Wii version as I can tolerate the motion controls, but it's a game that definitely needs a remaster.

rawhide · Jul 18, 2018

Oheao said:
Soulcalibur II. The HD version is still missing Link.

It's also based on the PAL version of the game which has weird quirks and balance changes that don't match the competitive standard.

GrantDaNasty · Jul 18, 2018

kubev said:
Is the extra content from the DS version in the version on Steam? Also, regarding the FMV in the DS version, I always found it odd that certain things that happened within the game engine also happened in the FMV; it felt as though you were watching the same thing twice a lot of the time. Has any version of the game ever addressed this and eliminated the redundancy? If the same thing happens within the game engine AND within the FMV, then I'd rather just see the FMV.

I believe all re-releases since the DS version include the additional content.

Also, I think the problem with those FMV cutscenes is they were originally from when the PS1 port was done, a similar thing was done with FF IV and maybe even V and VI where they added FMV that tried to visualise key moments from the plot...but again, meaning you saw it twice (the original 2D form and then displayed as a poorly rendered 3D FMV in the case of the FF re-releases).

Deleted member 23212 · Jul 18, 2018

rawhide said:
It's also based on the PAL version of the game which has weird quirks and balance changes that don't match the competitive standard.

OK, I definitely wasn't aware of that either!

AuthenticM · Jul 18, 2018

Came here to post SotN lol

affeinvasion · Jul 18, 2018

What's wrong with the gba version of final fantasy vi? It's the only version I've played and it's one of my favorite games of all time.

Fat4all · Jul 18, 2018

i would say Resident Evil 2, but luckily the GAME.COM version exists

kubev · Jul 18, 2018

SirNinja said:
Final Fantasy IV and VI immediately spring to mind.

FF4 seemingly has a different bonus dungeon in every version of itself. Then there's whether or not the final party is locked at Cecil/Kain/Rosa/Rydia/Edge or whether you can swap in the other party members that joined throughout the story. Then the DS/mobile/PC version added the Augment system and voiced cutscenes but lost quite a bit of the bonus content.

Meanwhile it's pretty disgraceful that, in 2018, the best way to play Final Fantasy VI is the emulated GBA version with several large fan patches. The SNES version contains several significant bugs, and the PC version is a minimum-effort mobile port with ugly sprites and a rare-but-nasty tendency to corrupt saves.

The only version of FFIV that I managed to finish was the PSP version. Honestly, I'd take that version's difficulty with the graphics of the PC version (albeit with better menus that weren't really glitchy). I like the low-poly look for FFIV for some reason.

azeke · Jul 18, 2018

GhostTrick said:
MGS3.
MGS3D has a new and better control scheme (Crouch walking, 3rd person aiming while moving, think MGS4 gameplay) but worse visuals and performance than MGS3 HD.

I think that control options allowing you to do customizeable 2-way and 3-way switching on weapon and item buttons are a bigger deal than even ability to crouch walk, because this feature significantly reduces menu time.

From similar controls standpoint i will argue that 360 port of MGS HD Collection is better because it removes analog button stuff.

CannonFodder52 · Jul 18, 2018

I think this is an unpopular opinion, but Yakuza 1 / Kiwami.

I really enjoy Kiwami, but it feels under-cooked, rushed and very rough around the edges. The Majima Everywhere stuff is great but it feels like tacked on fanservice for series vets, as apposed to content that I'd want someone to experience in the first title in the series. I'm pretty sure all of Kiwami's boss movesets are ripped out of bosses from later titles, and the "Kiwami" moves aren't really well liked by anyone. I do enjoy the additions like the continuation of the Pocket Circuit Racing story from Yakuza 0 and I'd say the narrative is also benefited by the new Nishiki scenes as well.

The original release of Yakuza 1 is pretty flawed. The combat especially compares poorly to the later entries, although it's still perfectly workable. It also suffers from long loads before street fights and other PS2 related conceits. Yakuza (PS2) is a product of it's time and it's kinda flawed, but it stands as a complete, compact and fully realized game. Kiwami feels like an expansion pack to Yakuza 0 that just uses the framework of Yakuza 1, it just doesn't feel like the quality refined product that I wish it did. So I'd consider both titles pretty great, but neither as the definitive entry.

molnizzle · Jul 18, 2018

FFVI is truly baffling.

On the other hand, Square would probably fuck it up.

GrantDaNasty · Jul 18, 2018

affeinvasion said:
What's wrong with the gba version of final fantasy vi? It's the only version I've played and it's one of my favorite games of all time.

It has the contrast blasted all the way up to accommodate the OG GBA, which tarnishes a lot of the original sprite-work (some sprites were re-drawn where it was felt necessary), also the music and sound effects are much lower in quality.

There were also changes to the original localization, which I feel is either a good or bad thing depending on which fans you ask.

For what it's worth, the GBA port does add new extra bosses and dungeons, a bestiary, character portraits are now available for all characters including temporary ones and 4 new espers were added as well.

Nintendo · Jul 18, 2018

GTA IV. Consoles version is outdated and the PC port sucks.

DHR54 · Jul 18, 2018

Final Fantasy VI.
This games controversial mobile port comes close as it includes all previous extras and tranlation fixes but people are too hung up on the art, thus no definitive version.

Final Fantasy VIII.
Pc version looses analog support in favour of higher res back grounds and Midi music. The music can be partially remedied with mods last I checked but the ps1 version with its shitty resolution sounds better and feels better with 360 degree movement.

Super Mario World.
The GBA revision added a host of fixes that never got seen on any future ports, the tiny screen and GBA sound holds it back to me. Playing vanilla is not a huge loss but it feels weird missing the GBA additions.

SotN.
Just kidding the English PS1 version of this game is perfect. Needs none of the changes seen in other editions. Buy it on ps3..... oh... okay there is the flaw...

Bonus!

Metal Gear Solid and Silent Hill.
Much in the same way that that SotN need to be ported forward these games do to. Totally not port begging, I'm just saying the lack of an official ps1 player other than PS3 is disappointing.

Games for Which There is No "Definitive" Version

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Brave Little Spark

Restless Insomniac

Restless Insomniac

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Restless Insomniac

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Prophet of Truth

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One Winged Slayer

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Son Altesse Sérénissime

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot

Prophet of Regret

Oh well.