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Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Just started the latest podcast. Wanted to say that the beginning was really nice. I think that is probably the best way to handle situations like these. Not necessarily a discussion but just an expression of support.

Again, I think it is what everyone expects them to say because they are great people but there is still value in them saying it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
The Noctis vs Ninja Turtles discussion was so strange to me. All that discussion about how weird Noctis is in Tekken but the turtles in Injustice? Yeah, makes sense.
 

hank_tree

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,596
The Noctis vs Ninja Turtles discussion was so strange to me. All that discussion about how weird Noctis is in Tekken but the turtles in Injustice? Yeah, makes sense.

The Turtles are basically superheros.

Noctis is basically a super hero (magicking weapons out of thin air/ teleporting etc.) too in a way that most Tekken characters are not. He's definitely a weirder fit.
 

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,602
The Noctis vs Ninja Turtles discussion was so strange to me. All that discussion about how weird Noctis is in Tekken but the turtles in Injustice? Yeah, makes sense.
Well they're comic book characters in a comic book fighting game. That's why I think less raised an eyebrow

Same reason nobody was surprised to see Hellboy in I2
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,885
I saw someone make the case that Noctis would be better in a Soul Calibre game, and I tend to agree.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
The Turtles are basically superheros.

Noctis is basically a super hero (magicking weapons out of thin air/ teleporting etc.) too in a way that most Tekken characters are not. He's definitely a weirder fit.

Well they're comic book characters in a comic book fighting game. That's why I think less raised an eyebrow

Same reason nobody was surprised to see Hellboy in I2

Sure, I can see both of these view points. Still seems odd as a point of critique for one but not the other.
 

Lexad

"This guy are sick"
Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,064
Congrats to to EZA being on the jury! Is that new to have that jury? I don't remember that last year
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
Were the rumors there discussing debunked or not? All I remember is that there was something about PSX in there and we know that there's going to be no PSX showcase.

--

Omg that half time intro.
 
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ShadyK54

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,272
Texas
Were the rumors there discussing debunked or not? All I remember is that there was something about PSX in there and we know that there's going to be no PSX showcase.

--

Omg that half time intro.

In the thread, ZhugeEX said that some of the points are true, others points are not & just random rumors/made up guesses. So there's that.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,718
Generally, I agree with Huber, and err on the side of accepting that if people have taken offense to something, their feelings on the matter are valid.

With that said, in the context of the Last of Us trailer - I do think it's all a bit overblown.

I mean, the trailer is literally getting criticised for its depiction of violence against women. Am I wrong in thinking that nothing shown in the trailer really relates to the real life issue our society is currently struggling to deal with? It wasn't making light of or celebrating inflicting violence against women. It was simply showing an act of violence against a woman. Is that really something that we should be censoring? Would anyone have batted an eye if the trailer featured the exact same content, but with men instead of women? I...honestly don't think so. I also don't think anything we saw is at odds with what we already knew of the world of The Last of Us from the first game, so the idea that people are shocked by the tone and graphic nature is pretty surprising to me.

I think the anger you're referring to is born out of fear that companies and the like will take this reaction to heart, and refrain from tackling things like this in the future out of fear of potential backlash.

I didn't look away because it was a woman getting her arms broken with a hammer, I looked away because it was a surprisingly excessive amount of violence that caught me off guard. I think using that scene in the trailer will intimately be seen as a mistake because it's going to remove all tension from the game when I play it myself. I would have loved to have that scene be my first introduction to those people within the context of the game but as a trailer it just feels like violence for violence sake.
 

Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,096
Melbourne, Australia
I didn't look away because it was a woman getting her arms broken with a hammer, I looked away because it was a surprisingly excessive amount of violence that caught me off guard. I think using that scene in the trailer will intimately be seen as a mistake because it's going to remove all tension from the game when I play it myself. I would have loved to have that scene be my first introduction to those people within the context of the game but as a trailer it just feels like violence for violence sake.
That's a totally fair criticism, and I actually agree with you.

It's definitely being turned into a conversation about the depiction of violence against women though (with people criticising that violence of this nature against women specifically was even shown at all), and that's where it loses me. It's conflating a serious issue with something that's tangentially related at best.
 

hank_tree

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,596
That's a totally fair criticism, and I actually agree with you.

It's definitely being turned into a conversation about the depiction of violence against women though (with people criticising that violence of this nature against women specifically was even shown at all), and that's where it loses me. It's conflating a serious issue with something that's tangentially related at best.

If you are being genuine, then there's plenty out there about violence against women in media and the issues around that. You can start here:https://kotaku.com/the-problem-with-the-casual-cruelty-against-women-in-vi-1626659439
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
Holy shit those raps, haha. Honestly, I was extremely worried that this could be awful. Wasn't sure if I'd even dare to check it out. I will never ever doubt them again. If the people losing the bet were required to build a rocket ship, I'd expect them to do their next group stream from the moon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
29,709
Man I listened to frametrap before playing Battlefront 2 (I was boycotting it but my brother bought it anyway so I borrowed it)
While Huber's campaign points were exactly what I was expecting beforehand, I can't believe how "off" I feel he actually was about certain elements of the campaign.

Specifically the part he talks about shooting ships over and over and over,
The reason it seems like that is you are supposed to be covering bombers as they make 2-3 bombing runs.

Normally im right there with Huber on opinions and such.
 
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klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,718
Holy shit those raps, haha. Honestly, I was extremely worried that this could be awful. Wasn't sure if I'd even dare to check it out. I will never ever doubt them again. If the people losing the bet were required to build a rocket ship, I'd expect them to do their next group stream from the moon.
We are still waiting for bens titan costume. I was hoping we would finally get to see it for Halloween.
 

Wiggy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
262
Anyone remember the stakes of the resident evil Huber bosman bet brought up in the podcast ? We really need an official bet tracker on the site
 

Drey1082

Member
Oct 27, 2017
714
I finally got around to watching the raps.

Wow.

WOW.

All of them were fantastic!

Yeah, checked it out last night. All three were incredible. EZA betting special stuff is the absolute best.

I wish EZA was more mainstream so I could work "We're talking meat Boi!" into various conversations.
 
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Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
Hi EZA Community. This is my first post here.
I love these guys so much. Always waiting for their next videos.
These last few months when fighting illness, EZA vids were mainly the highlight of my day. I hope I can live long enough to meet them some day.
PS: The last Opinion Yell is the goat vid.
Hi there and welcome! Also a bit late but equally warm welcome to Otoshigami! Let's have some fun shall we.
Thanks, yeah sometimes I do wonder if people knocking a game are just reviewing the game they wish it was rather than the one that's in front of them. I've played enough Forzas and GTs to be ready for them to "go back to the drawing board" rather than just piling more stuff on top of things that haven't changed in a decade.
Yuup. I know nothing about this specific game, but I wonder the same thing very often in other instances. See it on forum discussions too. And it bothers me just as much then.
 
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Oct 28, 2017
1,956
english is not my first language and i can't get what kyle says in his rap after the "and i think it's true, but i'm getting ______"
what does he says?
 

issa

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,030
Riyadh, Saudi Arabia
Re: Last of Us trailer. I think the main issue is the gratuitous graphic violence without context. You are selling your game by having a girl get her arm crushed by a hammer on screen.
The recent allegations against Naughty Dog makes it even more tasteless.

I saw someone make the case that Noctis would be better in a Soul Calibre game, and I tend to agree.
His design is too modern for SoulCalibur. I think his outfit fits Tekken, his moves are on par with the more absurd rage arts (which I guess is a bit too much for regular attacks).
 

Deleted member 5086

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,571
I can't say I felt 'offended' by the recent trailer for TLOU2, but I did find it a bit unsettling. I think people raise a good point when they question whether such a graphic and violent trailer was in good taste during a conference/showcase. I'm sure those scenes will make sense in the game, with the necessary context. No one is doubting Naughty Dog's ability to make compelling characters and well told narratives within games. However, most of that context was missing here. And honestly if you're playing TLOU2, you're going into that game knowing what to expect. Not everyone who is watching their PGW conference wants to see that, though.
 

hank_tree

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,596
I can't say I felt 'offended' by the recent trailer for TLOU2, but I did find it a bit unsettling. I think people raise a good point when they question whether such a graphic and violent trailer was in good taste during a conference/showcase. I'm sure those scenes will make sense in the game, with the necessary context. No one is doubting Naughty Dog's ability to make compelling characters and well told narratives within games. However, most of that context was missing here. And honestly if you're playing TLOU2, you're going into that game knowing what to expect. Not everyone who is watching their PGW conference wants to see that, though.

Also, in the PGW stream, it wasn't totally clear what the game was until the very end of the trailer. Even some of the Allies thought it was Days Gone initially.
 

Negator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
541
So my payment had lapsed on Patreon and I updated the payment. It shows me in the $5 tier but the content on Patreon is locked. I tried updating the pledge again but still locked. Any idea whats happening?

It has been a few days now.
 

demu

AVALANCHE
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,727
Germany
Since we're talking about punished bets: Kyle still has to stream at least 20 minutes of Captain Toad: Treasure Tracker, because, and I quote the bet tracker from the EZA forum:
Bet: Huber bets that there will be some kind of Mini console collection similar to the Mini NES by the end of next year. Bosman bets that there will be none, that the Classic Mini NES was it.
 

ShadyK54

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,272
Texas
Man, that PSX 2016 trailer. As soon as the Firefly tag popped up, I lost my shit like Huber. Then Ellie's song & Joel walking into the house...that emotion.

So good. Can't wait until that game comes out.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
I actually don't quite understand the criticisms against The Last of Us 2 trailer in regards to context. It tells you so much about that world and that situation I'm not really sure what else the trailer is supposed to tell you in 2-3 minutes without delving into spoilers.

Likewise with the violence criticism. The Last of Us 1 was just as violent but now it seems to be an issue?

I understand what people are trying to say when they say that the trailer is trying to sell the game and that makes it problematic but I don't even think of that is applicable here. Because this isn't a trailer that was cut to show off a game like you see so many other trailers. It's not as if the trailer consisted of a variety of different segments to show off the brutality and sell you the game via violence the violence on display. The trailer very much seems to be a scene lifted out of the game in its entirety.

And I'd argue that was effective primarily because of how it contrasted with the tone and themes of the first trailer at PSX, to show off that there will be more to TLOU 2 then the tone and themes you saw in the first trailer.

To me it seems like people have an issue with the actual violence on display in a game truthfully showing you exactly what it is and will be. Because none of the criticisms really hold up all that well in relation to the trailer.
 

diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,329
I wonder if next week they will talk more about EA, Disney, Battlefront 2 and lootboxes because the issue seems to actually be getting some mainstream news coverage and gambling commissions in two countries are looking into the matter.
 

TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,602
The latest TTE episode was sooooo good. Each character getting a big moment in the culmination of a year and a half long campaign. Great stuff
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
Likewise with the violence criticism. The Last of Us 1 was just as violent but now it seems to be an issue?
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2012/jun/20/the-last-of-us-violence As the article mentions even legendary Warren Spector was criticizing video game violence at the time. Though his comments weren't directly Last of Us related but overall.
"This is the year where there were two things that stood out for me. One was: The ultraviolence has to stop. We have to stop loving it. I just don't believe in the effects argument at all, but I do believe that we are fetishizing violence, and now in some cases actually combining it with an adolescent approach to sexuality. I just think it's in bad taste. Ultimately I think it will cause us trouble." "I think we're just appealing to an adolescent mindset and calling it mature. It's time to stop."
So no, this is not just a 2017 thing. Last of Us was there to spark this discussion before too. Apparently you just didn't take part in it at the time.
 
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Phendrana

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,096
Melbourne, Australia
If you are being genuine, then there's plenty out there about violence against women in media and the issues around that. You can start here:https://kotaku.com/the-problem-with-the-casual-cruelty-against-women-in-vi-1626659439
Cheers. I absolutely agree with many of the points Anita brings up in the video, especially in regards to the difference between how violence against men and women is generally portrayed in games. The Hitman posters were particularly shocking. I'm also all for more games with female leads tackling these issues from a different perspective, or straying from those types of tropes altogether.

With that said...how can we really combat this? The scene from the Last of Us trailer does seem to be leaning into the trope of violence against women as a way of invoking a strong reaction in the player, but I honestly don't see how you could tell a story in the world of TLOU without falling into that? If the characters introduced in the trailer are ultimately irrelevant/underdeveloped and seemingly only exist for the sake of those types of scenes, then I'd agree that it's in poor taste. And I can accept that for that reason it's probably not a great idea for a trailer given we don't have that context yet.

So yeah...fair enough then lol. I can see why people have an issue with it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,246
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/gamesblog/2012/jun/20/the-last-of-us-violence As the article mentions even legendary Warren Spector was criticizing video game violence at the time. Though his comments weren't directly Last of Us related but overall.

So no, this is not just a 2017 thing. Last of Us was there to spark this discussion before too. Apparently you just didn't take part in it at the time.

I'm not really talking about violence as a whole but rather the relative nature of it versus the first game. It's not as if TLOU2 being super violent is a shocker to anyone. The first game dealt with some heavy and dark stuff as well and never really shied away from it.

So it's unsurprising that the sequel wouldn't shy away from it either and why it makes sense that the introduction of a new set of characters might feature that violence.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,896
Finland
I'm not really talking about violence as a whole but rather the relative nature of it versus the first game. It's not as if TLOU2 being super violent is a shocker to anyone. The first game dealt with some heavy and dark stuff as well and never really shied away from it.

So it's unsurprising that the sequel wouldn't shy away from it either and why it makes sense that the introduction of a new set of characters might feature that violence.
Yeah the first one was violent (hence the discussions at the time) and this seems to be also. Personally I didn't mind the violence, but the trailer did nothing good for me either. But I do acknowledge that it was really brutal. And I think that it's realism adds to why it's so unsettling to many. It wasn't over the top action scene with quick cuts or anything. And it wasn't a combat situation at first but torture. These are some of the reasons I could think of why it might made some people uncomfortable. Though violence should be uncomfortable. Even Spector said this and I agree. I don't need the point to be gore, but when violence happens it needs to be real. Because it's not cool in real life. And I've actually worried about how people perceive and accept violence in the real life, while browsing these/old forums even. As a teen in junior high I passed out at school when we had a lecture about violence and it's consequences. I don't know if it was just because of the graphic images shown on the auditorium screen about serious injuries from physical assaults, but I do believe that it was effective.
 
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TheDarkKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,602
Wow at this reversal by EA with Battlefront 2. Looks like we found the line. And I think back to Kyle's statement when he was on Frametrap that the noise on these things can actually be more powerful than your wallet.

Just doing cursory checks like at Amazons top selling games list, Battlefront 2 was #6 and other spots makes me think it was still selling well. But the backlash was so strong and crossing into mainstream news/public spaces they were forced to react.

So the next set of questions is what will the progression be like now and will EA put the micro transactions back in once the heat dies down

Edit: Looks like EA will put them back in later when people aren't as focused on the game
 
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diablogg

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,329
Yea the progression of BF2 still seems utterly grindy and wrecked, plus the sneaky will be reintroduced later comment is super scum. This is just a bit of damage control why they wait for everything to settle down.
 

DisturbedSwan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,815
Hampshire, UK.
The raps were incredible, as someone who also doesn't eat many vegetables (Brussels Sprouts are one of the only exceptions) Kyle's rap spoke to me the most.

Most vegetables are indeed bad.
 
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