Or maybe a tail end of a golden era but let's not open that can of worms ;-)
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LTTP: Final Fantasy IV - I feel like this game deserves more discussion than it gets....
- Thread starter Phendrift
- Start date
Yep this game easily slips into my top 5 FF games, I've bought so many different versions as well. The DS edition I enjoy for what it is and I liked that they mixed up the formula with Augments, voice work etc. I think the PSP version is probably the best package overall though. I think FFIV tells one of the most genuinely intriguing stories in the series without getting caught into the trap of over-complicating or making it convoluted. To me FFIV tells the political story (at least initially, the story has many layers) and paces itself better than almost any other game in the series. It weaves friendship, betrayal, love, coming of age, loss, brotherhood and many more themes so well. Plus, having a five character party is cool, as are in general the number of characters developed through the story. Unlike even FFVI with its dumped in characters who have little development (Umaro, Gau, Gogo are all throwaway for instance) each character here has a narrative purpose and there are many.
I'm not saying that it's equal to FFVII, but that it's a precursor to it. The volume may be different, but the approach is the same. It's closer to VII than anything before it.
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The cast and story are fantastic. I prefer the PSP version since the sprite work is gorgeous. If you played it on a Vita it looked nothing short of beautiful on that screen
Yeah, I think we are discussing different things. I do not argue against that the approach is the same. I just think it is too much cutscenes and dialogues in later FF games for my personal taste.
it's one of my least favourite final fantasy games
bottom 3
the story becomes really dumb (don't want to get into details so as to not spoil)
in terms of gameplay, i dislike how on-rails it is in terms of party composition and character progression. the game doesn't trust you to make decisions about what characters to use and what skills to learn, so the game just feels really limiting. also many of the game's dungeons tend to drag out too long. at least there are some decent bosses
bottom 3
the story becomes really dumb (don't want to get into details so as to not spoil)
in terms of gameplay, i dislike how on-rails it is in terms of party composition and character progression. the game doesn't trust you to make decisions about what characters to use and what skills to learn, so the game just feels really limiting. also many of the game's dungeons tend to drag out too long. at least there are some decent bosses
It's a good game still today. Back then, it was amazing and revelatory; it pushed the genre's boundaries. But the story is simpler and poorer than a lot of stories that came after. It's still good, don't mistake me. But it gets more praise than it should. Same thing for the gameplay. Everything about FFIV today is "simple", so the game really doesn't stand out that much. FFVI alone is better in every single way than it, and VI has aged way better. VI is still a marvelous game today.
Isn't FF4 the most ported/remade Final Fantasy game of all-time? There's some straightforward ports to the PS1, Wonderswan Color, and GBA. There's the 2D remake on PSP and the 3D remake on DS, mobile, and PC. It's also one of the few Final Fantasy games with a direct sequel, albeit the quality isn't great there. Plus, well, it's a Final Fantasy game that was released in the US early on in the SNES life so just by that, it's going to be better known than stuff that was Japanese-only at first (FF2-3 & 5). In any case, FF4 is hardly unknown or unappreciated, not by Final Fantasy standards and definitely not by RPG standards in general.
yeah, I forgot to say. FFIV did not lack any discussions lol.
It's an amazing game. I think it aged a bit poorly with relatively simplistic gameplay and a story that isn't that interesting upon multiple playthroughs. Still, the graphics were great for their time and the soundtrack is great to this day. Definitely a classic FF.
The PSP remake is the best version and includes The After Years, albeit that version of the game is easy as hell. As said above it's also been ported and remade so many times, I believe the most in the series.
I would consider it an extremely good game but it falls out of being in the tops for me (in the story department) because of my disdain for the
I would consider it an extremely good game but it falls out of being in the tops for me (in the story department) because of my disdain for the
amount of characters sacrificing themselves in the story with none of them mattering apart from Tellahs. I think that Palom and Porom's hit me the most because they were just kids and being frozen in stone for eternity is grim. But Cid's was the most ridiculous and really soured me. The backpedaling on these was unreal.
I think Final Fantasy IV is the best example of what people refer to or want from a Final Fantasy series. It's a straightforward but powerful story set in a straightforward but well-crafted world and while it is overshadowed by Final Fantasy VI, for good reasons, I think it's the second best "Old School" (not my words, Square Enix's) Final Fantasy title.
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FFIV was my first FF game and it was a life-changer back then (I imported it in 1993). It's my second favorite FF after FFVI, more or less tied with FFVII (they're very different games, obviously, which makes it hard to compare them).
Final Fantasy IV is, in a way, the ''A Link to the Past'' of the Final Fantasy Series in that it cemented the way/pattern the games are done from. But contrarily to A Link to the Past, which is often considered the best or at least in the Top 5 Zelda Games, Final Fantasy IV is mostly considered as the Beginning of the Golden Age of Square Enix. Which is not too shabby!
Personally, it's one of my Favorite, having a straightforward plot, cool characters, awesome music. And yes, as most people have pointed out, it has been re-released a million time. I suggest the DS Version (on Steam if you wish) that is probably the hardest version too (You will want to throw the game while screaming when you'll reach the Tower of Zot)
Personally, it's one of my Favorite, having a straightforward plot, cool characters, awesome music. And yes, as most people have pointed out, it has been re-released a million time. I suggest the DS Version (on Steam if you wish) that is probably the hardest version too (You will want to throw the game while screaming when you'll reach the Tower of Zot)
Projared just recently did a video about the game and just fair warning it does have spoilers for those who haven't finished it.
I still like FFIV a lot but hes right about a lot of issues the game has. Cecil has a great character arc in the beginning but after he becomes a Paladin he basically doesn't have any more development and that happens just a few hours into the game. Multiple characters 'sacrifice' themselves for some rather stupid reasons or things that really don't make a lot of sense if you put any real thought into thinking about what just happened, ect. Then you have all the removed content for the US release and it feels like we got completely jipped on various battle mechanics.
It's still really the grandfather of the story based FF games (FF1 didn't have much of a plot and we never got FF2 or FF3 on NES) and thats what really pulled me into the series but yeah its got a lot of problems.
It is, to date, my favorite Final Fantasy, and one of my favorite games ever. It's one of the best games ever made, and was almost single handedly responsible for helping shape my game genre, gameplay style, storytelling, and aesthetic preferences.
Yeah, this was completely terrible. It's the most important reason I don't consider it a good game.
Cid dies three times in the game, but "IT WAS FOR THE LOLZ". Those "Fake News !" deaths become quickly boring.
I always thought it was considered one of the best Final Fantasy games by fans of the series and in general so I disagree.
Before I got into the series, IV, VI and VII were the ones I heard about the most.
Before I got into the series, IV, VI and VII were the ones I heard about the most.
I only played a bit of the pc port of the DS remake but I couldn't get over the awful presentation. Ugly models, mediocre voice acting, terrible cutscene direction, leftover mobile UI, etc. I'll probably give FF4 another chance but it'll be either snes or psp version.
This will always hold a special place in my heart, even though I've seen some people express an intense and passionate dislike for the game. It was the first game I remember that ever made me feel anything for the characters. I was probably 13 when I played it on the SNES. Through the years I've also found that I typically enjoy melodrama for what it's worth.
I haven't played it in many years now. I ended up grabbing the complete collection on sale on PSP some years ago and have been meaning to play it and The After Years. One day maybe.
I haven't played it in many years now. I ended up grabbing the complete collection on sale on PSP some years ago and have been meaning to play it and The After Years. One day maybe.
This.
The SNES era is the true golden age of FF. That's when Chrono Trigger was made also.
Nah fam. Welcome to the true golden age: 4-6. The PS1 games are super aged, very rough around the edges and generally yucky overall. FF 4-6 are timeless classics that can be played 50 years from now and still be enjoyed. Everything after the PS1 games is too inconsistent to be called a golden age either. The SNES games were Square's creative peak in both story telling and gameplay design.
Final Fantasy IV, back when it was still known in the west as Final Fantasy 2, was the game that originally turned me into a fan of RPGs. So, it has a special place in my heart. I still really like its characters, and I still think it was a major turning point in RPG dungeon design.
However, the game is really flawed. Even with the addition of augments in the DS/Mobile version of the game, the character customization and depth to the gameplay is sadly very poor. The story of IV is a mess: it is full of odd plot holes and lurches from one melodramatic self sacrifice to another. I like the game, but it really would benefit from some story rewrites.
IV also suffers from not having a definitive version. The DS/Mobile version added augments and improved many of the boss fights, but it also wrecked some of the cutscenes and I don't like the 3D models as well as the original spritework. The PSP version has its own issues as well. It can be a touch frustrating.
However, the game is really flawed. Even with the addition of augments in the DS/Mobile version of the game, the character customization and depth to the gameplay is sadly very poor. The story of IV is a mess: it is full of odd plot holes and lurches from one melodramatic self sacrifice to another. I like the game, but it really would benefit from some story rewrites.
IV also suffers from not having a definitive version. The DS/Mobile version added augments and improved many of the boss fights, but it also wrecked some of the cutscenes and I don't like the 3D models as well as the original spritework. The PSP version has its own issues as well. It can be a touch frustrating.
I loved this game so much back when it came out. The plot is unbelievably cliché, but that didn't matter. It set the groundwork for '90s JRPGs.
Still one of the best soundtracks of the series. The boss battle music is 16-bit perfection.
Still one of the best soundtracks of the series. The boss battle music is 16-bit perfection.
This, except I think it's perfectly paced and don't have as much trouble with the story as some people seem to.
Yes, it's melodramatic and there are a lot of "haha, tricked yah!" moments with respect to the appearance and disappearance of characters, but so many Final Fantasies after this suffer from much, much worse. I know and understand the plot of Final Fantasy IV, I can follow the progression of its characters (however limited), and the political side of the narrative is restricted enough that it doesn't become a bloated mess with convoluted ins and outs that are as much deus-ex-machina as the life-and-death struggles of Final Fantasy IV's most notorious characters.
Even when I was a kid, I knew the plot was cliche, but that was alright because the graphics, music, and gameplay made up for it, and you ended up caring because at least the various motivations were familiar and fun.
That basically died away after VI.
It's in my backlog to try the sequel someday. I loved 4, why will I hate the sequel?
I love FF4 and I loved the DS remake. I thought the art transferred well and the voice acting was on point.
It's a simpler game, but I don't see that as a negative. I think it's easily a top 5 main FF game.
It's a simpler game, but I don't see that as a negative. I think it's easily a top 5 main FF game.
It's pretty drastically overshadowed by the high quality of FFV and FFVI (though both of those games excel at seriously different things) - but I think it's a great leap forward in basic ambition for the series.
FFIV also has a very specific vision for its game design that is pretty heavily obscured in the Easytype version - it's probably the only heavily attrition-oriented game in the series until FF11/FF12/FF13.
What I mean is -- FF5 is all about having the correct party setup for the task at hand (and finding overpowered job/ability/equipment combinations), FF6/7/8 are all about everyone being able to pump out tons of damage, tank tons of damage, and heal a lot, so you pick your parties based on personality (until you get into the finer points of minmaxing/party optimization, but everyone is 'good enough' at everything), FF9/FFX are all about doing the most efficient action per-turn.
FF4, on the other hand, is 100% about finding the correct balance with every single party, in terms of your basic damage output/tanking/healing loop; the game *constantly* changes the makeup of your party on you (it's very intentional that nearly every time you lose a mage you gain a tank/fighter and vice versa) and every single time you've got to basically rediscover how much damage output you can do and how much damage you can take. This is what the game's row system is designed around; it's why Cecil is the most flexible character in the game -- capable of healing, tanking, covering weak party members, and tons of damage output, he's effectively the fulcrum of every party as it finds its balance -- and it's what makes the design of your final party especially interesting (Kain is already a character for whom you can make effective arguments for keeping him in the front OR the back row - Edge (with his extremely low defense) is much the same, forcing you to really figure out how you're going to configure your party in the endgame).
I think the story's pretty dull and the basic character growth system is too, but the constant readjustment of your battle-strategy loop to match your party and the challenges at hand scratched an itch that I didn't get again until Final Fantasy 12's boss battles. This stuff comes out the most in FFIV DS, but it's absolutely built into the foundation of the original game.
FFIV also has a very specific vision for its game design that is pretty heavily obscured in the Easytype version - it's probably the only heavily attrition-oriented game in the series until FF11/FF12/FF13.
What I mean is -- FF5 is all about having the correct party setup for the task at hand (and finding overpowered job/ability/equipment combinations), FF6/7/8 are all about everyone being able to pump out tons of damage, tank tons of damage, and heal a lot, so you pick your parties based on personality (until you get into the finer points of minmaxing/party optimization, but everyone is 'good enough' at everything), FF9/FFX are all about doing the most efficient action per-turn.
FF4, on the other hand, is 100% about finding the correct balance with every single party, in terms of your basic damage output/tanking/healing loop; the game *constantly* changes the makeup of your party on you (it's very intentional that nearly every time you lose a mage you gain a tank/fighter and vice versa) and every single time you've got to basically rediscover how much damage output you can do and how much damage you can take. This is what the game's row system is designed around; it's why Cecil is the most flexible character in the game -- capable of healing, tanking, covering weak party members, and tons of damage output, he's effectively the fulcrum of every party as it finds its balance -- and it's what makes the design of your final party especially interesting (Kain is already a character for whom you can make effective arguments for keeping him in the front OR the back row - Edge (with his extremely low defense) is much the same, forcing you to really figure out how you're going to configure your party in the endgame).
I think the story's pretty dull and the basic character growth system is too, but the constant readjustment of your battle-strategy loop to match your party and the challenges at hand scratched an itch that I didn't get again until Final Fantasy 12's boss battles. This stuff comes out the most in FFIV DS, but it's absolutely built into the foundation of the original game.
FF4 remains one of my all time favorites. Unfortunately if I were to talk about just the FF games I did finish, that would be limited to just 4, 10, 13 and 15. Need to play the others in the series.
That said, FF4 was also my first FF game and remains as the one I hold the dearest in terms of story and gameplay. Also the boss themes were spectacular.
That said, FF4 was also my first FF game and remains as the one I hold the dearest in terms of story and gameplay. Also the boss themes were spectacular.
They went a bit overboard with the drama..
..but as far as 16-bit RPGs go, it's still regarded as a masterwork. Often FF4 is heralded as the best of the era.*
..but as far as 16-bit RPGs go, it's still regarded as a masterwork. Often FF4 is heralded as the best of the era.*
Bordering on thread whining but the amount of threads that can be boiled down to "Lots of imaginary people think this but I think that" really get my goat. They can just be phrased as "I think that." instead.
The general gaming audience doesn't care about them though.
They only care about the 3D era FF's.
It's a bad fan fiction at best, one of the worst RPGs you'll ever play at worst. The only salvageable thing could be some of the designs. Maybe.
Oh, thank you for making this thread. FFIV is by far my favourite in the series — just hearing that battle music bass line gets me all pumped to play this again, every time! I always preferred the tighter, narrative-driven stage-play style of FFIV; it really did feel like you were taking part in a little marionette show. So much sacrifice, harsh realizations, betrayal, and stunning comebacks — it was a Shonen Jump manga writ large.
I played it first to completion on the PS1 collection (thank goodness for that run button), and I have an SNES cart that I intend to play through as well. Just a joy of a game, and my favourite JRPG.
I played it first to completion on the PS1 collection (thank goodness for that run button), and I have an SNES cart that I intend to play through as well. Just a joy of a game, and my favourite JRPG.
Easily the second most overrated FF game, after FF5.
FF4 is a mess of a story steeped in tons of cliches. What the game DOES have going for it are the battles which actually have a ton of interesting gimmicks. Learning to have to bounce back spells off of Wall/Reflect to have them hit (and being taught this strategy by a boss battle) was super cool. As was the Dark Cecil fight, though it's partially lost on the gimped SNES version we got in the west (you have no frame of reference that the Dark Wave attack is hurting Dark Cecil and thus you can just let him kill himself. You have to be told in text by the game which is far less satisfying).
THAT SAID... Final Fantasy games are a lot like Zelda games. Everyone has their favorites, everyone has their least favorites, but at the end of the day (except FF13) they are all still good games in their own right.
(edit) The music being great goes without saying. Troia is still GOAT.
FF4 is a mess of a story steeped in tons of cliches. What the game DOES have going for it are the battles which actually have a ton of interesting gimmicks. Learning to have to bounce back spells off of Wall/Reflect to have them hit (and being taught this strategy by a boss battle) was super cool. As was the Dark Cecil fight, though it's partially lost on the gimped SNES version we got in the west (you have no frame of reference that the Dark Wave attack is hurting Dark Cecil and thus you can just let him kill himself. You have to be told in text by the game which is far less satisfying).
THAT SAID... Final Fantasy games are a lot like Zelda games. Everyone has their favorites, everyone has their least favorites, but at the end of the day (except FF13) they are all still good games in their own right.
(edit) The music being great goes without saying. Troia is still GOAT.
This thread made me want to give FF2 another chance.
Did you mean to type 7? Because regardless of how anyone feels about FF5, I don't know in what universe it'd qualify as overrated.
This is one of my personal favorites as well- this is the game that brought JRPGS forward in a big way in terms of storytelling. I also love the simplicity- no complex "systems" or party management- you have in your party whoever the plot dictates is with you and its constantly rotating- and every party member is a unique character "class" and useful in their own way (except Edward, by design of course :) Everyone lauds FF6 (which is a bigger, arguably "better" game)- but FF4 is the building block that everything was built on. And I will never forget the first time I went to the moon- this was epic, and blew my mind back in the day.