• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Osiris397

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,455
https://dispatches.cheatcc.com/3737

It's bizarre to me that some people that get paid to know these industries, customers etc. just pass over a lot of critical information in addressing certain topics.

It's pretty plain to see that from a userbase standpoint Vive/Rift is one audience, Mobile VR is another audience and PSVR is yet another audience. Once you actually identify and accept this fact it becomes pretty straight forward to realize that obstacles to entry on the PC side plus lack of VR gaming interest are what has waylaid PCVR. On top of that the Wild Wild West of an innumerable variety of PC configurations leaves developers coding to the lowest common denominator for a smallish interest group of power users that are generally game enthusiasts instead of actual gamers running beefy desktops and maybe even a few laptop users. This is a small group and it was a small group before the re-invigorated consumer VR craze materialized. To me there was an unrealistic expectation that a multi-billion industry for VR could be built using the PC as the foundation to begin with.

For people that like to game a little (as far as AAA games anyway) and are more enthusiasts all that expense and effort is too much to also get spotty quality game polish, overly simplistic design and short games.

Gaming is still definitely VRs killer category but only for the right audience...people on the same platform that game a lot, buying probably between 5-10 AAA games per year or more mostly with some enthusiasts around the periphery. Because there's only a very small group of those kinds of users in the PC space that are also interested in VR it's unlikely that VR on that platform will ever take off or atleast move sufficient numbers to support progressive development.

//Maybe when the baseline of graphics of laptops are around GTX 1080 ti level there may be a chance, but that's a long way off and the overall interest in VR on the PC would have to grow substantially.//

In the meantime PSVR will continue to grow on a steady diet of more polished PC ports and other titles mostly because of higher interest in VR, uniformity in hardware for developers, the relative simplicity in set-up/requirements and the comfort of the HMD. The nature of that audience over there is that it buys 3-15 AAA games annually and a significant chunk will see additional value in augmenting/enhancing the large investment of time and money into the kinds AAA games that they already have been buying for years with VR. Even 10 million of an 80 million+ userbase is realistic but the number could go a lot higher than that.

Obviously large third party development and mainstream game media coverage would help, but there's also something to be said for the slow, gradual but consistent growth that PSVR is getting from standout games like Resident Evil 7, Wipeout VR, Farpoint and Skyrim VR. It's better to be stable than to have huge explosive growth upfront only to run out of gas early and collapse. It seems like the PSVR releases are getting more numerous and the devs are getting more adept with their VR development techniques.

With Visceral gone and Deadspace essentially dead as a franchise The Persistence looks well ahead of the curve and may be the game that fills that void and then with VR innovates where Deadspace couldn't, but only time will tell.
 

ClarkusDarkus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,734
If VR does fail, Then i go with it. Flat TV gaming doesn't do it for me anymore much, I feel like iv'e seen it all before, Graphics are diminishing returns. PSVR has had a shocker so far this year though, They keep waiting for PC ports of games that take months after their release. They need more power big time for VR.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,729
Canada
CURRENT VR seems kinda dead/dying; I don't doubt the future tech can really improve the experience to be...less awkward?
But man, even articles or new game announcement barely generate heat. It just ain't there yet.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,587
VR makes almost everything better.

I recently bought a PSVR and have been playing Pinball FX2 and can't stop, and I don't even have any fascination with pinball.
It won't replace flat TV gaming for me, but it can coexist, why do people think one has to die and the other succeed? Doesn't make sense.
 
Feb 10, 2018
17,534
Its kinda chicken and egg problem with VR.
I dont wanna invest in VR because the games and experience and not worth the cost for me.
It needs to be cheaper and better, thats it,end of.
 

Ghost_Messiah

Member
Oct 27, 2017
637
Kind of feel like the OP wrote a better article than the writer at CheatCC did.

As for VR I was a sceptic but then tried it (Oculus Rift) at a friend's house and thought it was pretty awesome and mind-blowing. Robo Recall was the best game we played. That said even as a gamer I don't feel the urge to rush out and get it just yet and I think there's where most mainstream consumers are right now. Hope it does eventually do well and flourishes one day.
 

Tygre

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,194
Chesire, UK
It's not that slow of a death.

I'd say 2 years and change since it's rebirth makes this a positively speedy death. 3D TV's lasted 7 years or so, and everyone recognises what a colossal shitshow they were.
 

gcwy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,685
Houston, TX
It's dying a fast death, seems to me. Unless you want to count all the VR stuff in the 90s then yes, it's been dying a very slow death.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
No? There were never going to be 5 different competitors in the market that was never viable. The tech still works and it's still a focus from the major developers and platform holders. The tech isn't going away, it's not going to be abandoned, motion based VR gaming is here to stay. It's probably not going to be the new paradigm.
 

Frozenprince

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,158
As far as I know the Oculus is doing very well and overtook HTC anyway. The market just chose their product.
 

SP.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,668
The irony of Cheat CC asking if something is dying a slow death is really incredible.
 

Mzo

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,172
It's every week with this shit.

Why do some people have such a visceral reaction against VR? It's doing fine and will only get better. Even PSVR has some killer apps and is really fun to use. Nothing else gives you that crazy sense of immersion.
 

Juste

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
298
It's not that slow of a death.

I'd say 2 years and change since it's rebirth makes this a positively speedy death. 3D TV's lasted 7 years or so, and everyone recognises what a colossal shitshow they were.

3DTVs soft launched in 2010 and weren't even a talking point at the early 2013 console unveilings.
 

m0dus

Truant Pixel
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
1,034
So is the "VR is dying" thing becoming like the "Nintendo going 3rd party!" Thing?
 

Mechaplum

Enlightened
Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,920
JP
It's every week with this shit.

Why do some people have such a visceral reaction against VR? It's doing fine and will only get better. Even PSVR has some killer apps and is really fun to use. Nothing else gives you that crazy sense of immersion.

It's because they want the tech on their terms and FOMO with the current folks who actually enjoy them. It's almost like a background drone at this point.
 

dsk1210

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,405
Edinburgh UK
PC VR is not Vive/Rift, its Oculus and Open VR, there is multiple open ended VR headsets coming including the Pimax that will bring quite a jump in FOV and resolution if they can really pull it off.

It is too expensive to have it readily acceptable as a (high end) consumer product at this moment though.

The good thing about the PC side of it though is that all this old VR software should be usable no matter the improvements that come with time.

It's really a long term plan rather than instantaneous joy.
 

qrac

Member
Nov 13, 2017
759
VR has been around a long time, most recently in the form of PSVR/Google VR/etc. The massmarket still doesn't care about VR.

I'm waiting for someone to make VR fit into a pair of closed glasses (wirelessly). Maybe 15 years away?
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
Remember when PC gaming was dying?
Remember when Nintendo was going 3rd party?

At least wait until there are signs of failure. If Oculus goes out of business instead of investing more, if Valve drops out of VR support instead of focusing almost entirely on it, if there is no VR support on PS5, then make the thread.

Until then we'll be enjoying VR on our respective platforms.
 
OP
OP
Osiris397

Osiris397

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,455
...At least wait until there are signs of failure...

In the PC space this is happening now. HTC is laying off a lot of Vive employees:
https://www.engadget.com/.../htc-will-lay-off-1-500-employees-in-search-of-profit/

Facebook did slash funding for Oculus development, aren't paying for any exclusive Oculus IP anymore, they've cut all public showcases at every major gaming event and they've seemingly retreated and redirected most first party funding to Oculus Go...basically an all-in one cheaper mobile phone like device that's primarily for 360 video. John Carmack gave a thorough and interesting talk about all of this at the last Oculus Connect.

Even Sony reduced VR development announcements at this past E3, but they did have 2 floors of PSVR demo stations with a truckload of finished and in-development games.
 

low-G

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,144
In the PC space this is happening now. HTC is laying off a lot of Vive employees:
https://www.engadget.com/.../htc-will-lay-off-1-500-employees-in-search-of-profit/

Facebook did slash funding for Oculus development, aren't paying for any exclusive Oculus IP anymore, they've cut all public showcases at every major gaming event and they've seemingly retreated and redirected most first party funding to Oculus Go...basically an all-in one cheaper mobile phone like device that's primarily for 360 video. John Carmack gave a thorough and interesting talk about all of this at the last Oculus Connect.

Even Sony reduced VR development announcements at this past E3, but they did have 2 floors of PSVR demo stations with a truckload of finished and in-development games.

HTC has their own problems and could go bankrupt or be sold off at any moment. Vive shouldn't be an indication of anything. AFAIK, the Vive division is the only one not yet affected by their other disasters.

What's the source of the FB thing? because I haven't heard anything about that. In fact I've heard exclusively the opposite - Oculus getting more exclusive titles (specific developers and large millions announced). There were a bunch of details about announced exclusives at E3, too.

FB just built a $88 Million Oculus hub this year.
 

Lucifersam597

Permanently banned for usage of an alt-account.
Member
Jun 28, 2018
314
This gens VR is kinect without all the initial sales of kinect. It can't even be considered a fad since it wasn't popular enough to be one.
 
Oct 27, 2017
683
Not dying at all, it's just that the specs aren't there yet. OPs analysis is on point.
VR will probably not break into mainstream for another ten years or so, but if Sony supports it decently on PS5 I think we'll see it take a much more prominent role within the industry. By the time we get PS6 (or whatever happens with console generations) I think it will have matured enough to make a break.
 

Deleted member 1003

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,638
VR is so much more than gaming these days. The company I work for creates prothetics and orthotics and is always looking at new technologies to help patients improve or increase their mobility, including VR. So if it does fail, I could fail from a gaming perspective but still thrive in the commercial space.
 
Last edited:

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,965
a Socialist Utopia
I can't say whether it's dying or not, I can only say that I'm personally not buying into the current options. I don't have a lot of hands-on time with VR, but I did spend several hours with a high-end Occulus Rift setup running on two 1080 Ti GPUs. I tried Google Earth VR, the Valve VR demos, Lone Echo, Superhot and a few other things. Everything ran absolutely great (no shit, on that setup) and it was a great experience overall, the visual immersion is fantastic.

I can just see myself getting bored with it after a week in terms of experiences, on top of that there's the obstacle of these things not being great to wear. For every session it was a relief to take the headset off. Then there's the disconnect without haptic feedback when holding things. I quickly started getting annoyed with the shortcomings more than getting thrilled by the experiences.

All these things are being worked on and pioneering is needed to make progress. With miniaturization, haptic gloves and other improvements things will get much better. I'll keep an eye on things, but I'm not spending anything on VR currently. The technology could also whimper and die off (again). I don't think it's "safe" at this point. Maybe the challenges/economics will make it die for now - until someone tries again in 20 years time.
 
OP
OP
Osiris397

Osiris397

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,455
As far as I know the Oculus is doing very well and overtook HTC anyway. The market just chose their product.

Well...that's true and not true. Rift overtook Vive in playtime on steam by around 2%. It was around this time that Oculus ads were running everywhere online, so it's very possible that it was primarily about user morale rising with that small an increase.

Vive sales tanked, so Rift may have overtaken them in overall sales numbers, but I kind of doubt it since last soft numbers were that Rift had sold 400,000 units and Vive sold 700,000 units. If Rift had almost doubled it's sales in under 6 months, that alone would have been news and there hasn't been any kind of news like that at any point during the year.
 

Aprikurt

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 29, 2017
18,806
It needs another gen in the oven. It's not ready, and I say that after spending an hour or so with Skyrim VR.
 

CoLD FiRE

Banned
Nov 11, 2017
369
Right now, PC is the best platform for VR. You have many options when it comes to VR HMDs, the most robust VR content and of course the freedom associated with the PC platform.

My brother just bought a WMR Samsung Odyssey and he brought it over to my place to test it. I've tried a few games and "experiences" on it, and so far most of those experiences felt like glorified tech demos. That's not to say VR is dying or whatever, it's just really early and not exactly ready for mass adoption.

VR just needs more games like VR Kanojo and fewer ones like the VR mode in Rise of the Tomb Raider!
 

ByWatterson

▲ Legend ▲
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,302
Still appears to be a solution in search of a problem. Not sure how it breaks through.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
The OP is confusing to read?

I really don't know what they're arguing other than that the article they posted is bad (I think).
 

Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
Just wait until a game like Skyrim, built from the ground up to support VR, comes out on something accessible like PSVR. Shit's got a few more years before it's gonna hit the fan. Give it time.
 

Remo Williams

Self-requested ban
Banned
Jan 13, 2018
4,769
The hopes of VR as mainstream or "the future of gaming" are dead and buried, there's nothing slow or ongoing about that. But VR has found its niche which will continue to fluctuate in size and importance. I think that things will get better for VR, and they'll get much better for AR, but they'll also continue getting better for traditional flat surface gaming.
 

Zukuu

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,809
We're still in the first consumer gen. It's like saying "is 8k dying a slow death?" Give it a gen or two.
 

Box

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,629
Lancashire
I think it will be fine long term. it's such a logical step for gaming.
I honestly thought we'd be swimming in HMDs at this point though, and that 1300 quid Pro Vive stinks.
 

Xx 720

Member
Nov 3, 2017
3,920
Similar to the VCR in the 1980s, the killer app for vr is porn. Not saying it's a good or positive thing but I think eventually an affordable vr experience with access to high quality vr porn is what will bring it to the masses.
 

Radishhead

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,568
I don't know anybody with VR, so I'm going to say it isn't actually "alive" yet. There's still hope once it finally drops in price.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,097
In the era of instant gratification not immediately exploding into the new industry standard equals death, apparently.

Just wait until a game like Skyrim, built from the ground up to support VR, comes out on something accessible like PSVR. Shit's got a few more years before it's gonna hit the fan. Give it time.

I mean, Skyrim is already pretty cool in VR, but I get what you mean.
 
Last edited:

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Just wait until a game like Skyrim, built from the ground up to support VR, comes out on something accessible like PSVR. Shit's got a few more years before it's gonna hit the fan. Give it time.

I mean the problem is what incentive is there to make a project that huge for something when they could make more money making it available for traditional consoles.

I mean I get it's a Catch 22 because without software there's no incentive to buy hardware. But I don't know away around it.