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Khamsinvera

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,580
MOD EDIT: As a reminder, the policy points outlined in this thread apply here as well.

Full article: https://kotaku.com/in-the-wake-of-a...flow_Kotaku_Twitter&utm_source=Kotaku_Twitter

This is interesting. At most companies, your conduct outside of work can potentially affect your employment. However, this seems to be now extending into your "online" life / persona.

Although the article states "harassment", a lot of it has to do with social media.

Should companies be allowed to regulate or have a say in what their employees can or can't do on their private social media accounts?
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Good grief, that's the worst possible takeaway. Of course companies should be able to, but they should have the good sense to do it for the right reasons. If they fuck it up, there's backlash.
 

Zok310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,628
Too much control for an employer, let the site/community mods do their job.
Even if i was a saint i dont want my employer peering into my online life, i mean where do we draw the line?
Do they get to come in our home and bug our house/apartments.
Maybe if you use a company computer or device to harass people then i might say ok, but in my home on my personal device is a bit of a stretch.
 

Falconbox

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,600
Buffalo, NY
Should companies be allowed to regulate or have a say in what their employees can or can't do on their private social media accounts?

IMO, yes.

It's pretty clear nowadays that what you say and do on social media is not treated as private and does affect your job.

We see the same thing happen to people of all races, genders, and political affiliations. Make your company look bad, and you'll face consequences.

One of the first things they told us in business school was to make our social media profiles private or non-identifying. My Facebook is set to friends only and doesn't have my last name, and my Twitter uses my PSN/XBL gamertag.

Obviously gaming is a bit more social and public than being an accountant, so I understand not wanting to make it that private. But in that case, you need to be careful with what you put out there.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
Another developer, who chose to remain anonymous, faced an especially coordinated attack, albeit an incompetently-handled one: The company this developer freelances for, she told Kotaku in a DM, received a "a three-digit number's" worth of letters complaining that it was morally wrong to hire "a transgender," that the quality of the studio's games had gone down since she and another woman were hired, and that her Twitter account set "a bad example for the letter-writer's children, who supposedly play this game."

"This is what these people think they can do to us now."
For a brief period of time, the developer said, her CEO was ready to tell her boss to fire her. Then, another employee realized something was amiss with the letters. "Fifty or so of them glitched out with a lot of variables exposed, including %FEMALENAME," said the developer. This made it clear that the letters were simply form letters with blank spaces for the name of any woman that the mob wanted to attack.

Gaming is such a fucked up place.

Because note here the CEO was ready to fire her if the bots had been real people upset that they were employing a trans woman.
 

AliasGreed

Member
Oct 31, 2017
298
This is common knowledge, you work at any big company and you fuck up in social media you also fuck up at your job. I don't get the controversy.

Your online life persona is social media.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
Too much control for an employer, let the site/community mods do their job.
Even if i was a saint i dont want my employer peering into my online life, i mean where do we draw the line?
Do they get to come in our home and bug our house/apartments.
Maybe if you use a company computer or device to harass people then i might say ok, but in my home on my personal device is a bit of a stretch.
I think it's pretty fair if your house has a big sign with your name, place of employment, and a big ol' racist slur on the outside.
 

JustJavi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,116
New Zealand
There are a couple of pages in my contract about our behaviour in social networks when we wear the name of the brand and disciplinary actions the company can take if what we say online can affect the business.
 

Razor Mom

Member
Jan 2, 2018
2,546
United Kingdom
This is common knowledge, you work at any big company and you fuck up in social media you also fuck up at your job. I don't get the controversy.

Your online life persona is social media.
My thoughts exactly. There is no controversy. If you use your social networks to discuss company information, hell, even run official AMAs, then damn right your fuckups are going to affect your professional situation.
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Should companies be allowed to regulate or have a say in what their employees can or can't do on their private social media accounts?

As long as their employer is mentioned by name on that social media platform, yes. The firing needs to be handled well however, and I do not think a company should give in under the pressure of their customers.
 
Nov 23, 2017
4,302
To all who say your boss should be able to control what you say online, what if its a political opinion? What if you are pro union and they dont like that?
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
I mean obviously the answer is yes but that's not a blanket yes.... there's a difference between Price and say someone being racist or bigoted...
 
Nov 4, 2017
2,203
Your employers now fire you for not just a messy social media incident, but anything in real life too outside work that could even potentially be a PR liability.

This is pushed on the left and the right. Every day in Off Topic there is a racist exposed at a pool saying stupid shit that winds up getting fired after it explodes on social media.

None of this is going away. And it's not just social media. It's anything. If someone doesn't like what you do in your life, the new trend is to immediately contact their employer and get them fired.
 

Grexeno

Sorry for your ineptitude
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,760
Do whatever you want, just don't do it online in Social Media.
oeH8FAM.gif
 

daybreak

Member
Feb 28, 2018
2,415
Most industries are not as closely entwined in social media/online presence as the gaming industry is. I'm still firmly of the belief that it's appropriate for a game development company to have expectations of all of their employees when it comes to online decorum, and, in a management position, would hope that my employees are professional enough to understand that even untold.

Regardless of industry, though...if you're repping the company in your bio/about section on social media, it's common sense that you're representing the company, even if you're not meaning to.

In this case, ArenaNet made some poor decisions and handled the situation in a very poor way. Their now ex-employee made some poor decisions and handled a situation in a very poor way. The general internet public has continued to make poor decisions and handle everything in a poor way - although that's to be expected.

Negative marks all around.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
Appalachia
Upon reading the OP my knee-jerk reaction was "yeah, I think companies should be free to treat employees as they see fit for certain things they post on social media".

Then I read the article. This is one of those realms where I think companies need to stop babying their customers and start standing up for their employees. It's fucking stupid that people think their role as a consumer, and the privileges they assume are granted from that, take precedence over basic respect. And this goes beyond gaming, or the kinds of campaigns the fucks in the article arrange.

If you're an entitled asshat, employees of the company you're being an entitled asshat toward should absolutely be allowed to call you out.
 

the_wart

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,261
Gaming is such a fucked up place.

Because note here the CEO was ready to fire her if the bots had been real people upset that they were employing a trans woman.


Yeah I did a double take, I felt like I had to have missed a paragraph in the middle or something. Super fucked up.

There's no way around the fact that on social media, if you publicly identify yourself with your profession and employer, then you are acting as a representative of your employer and things you say can and will impact your employment status. Like, I don't think anyone here would object to a developer being fired for going on a profane racist rant. So, given that this is the case, refusing to lay out clear guidelines and expectations just creates needless ambiguity.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,177
Greater Vancouver
Nope, theres are reason, all my social media accounts are anonymous and resetera is basically the only "social place" i post on because I love videogames and again I'm completely anonymous.
That's nice. That doesn't work for people whose careers demand they have an online presence, or where it's a significant tool in getting work.

And that's not even considering, y'know, people have the fucking right to discuss their own identity without being harassed for it.
 

xolsec

Member
Feb 18, 2018
1,685
User Banned (1 Week): History of trolling + accumulated infractions
I remember when you had to deal with the consequences of your actions, the good old days.
 

Deleted member 4021

Oct 25, 2017
1,707
Ah, but I was told in the other thread repeatedly that this firing was a super-normal event and there was no reason to bring up the hate mob that fought for it. If only all these game devs had resetera posters there to tell them to not worry, they don't have to change a thing and their employees are just overreacting.
 

Bricktop

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,847
Why are these gaming companies so far behind the curve when it comes to social media? The lack of common sense in the gaming industry is really astounding. My company has had social media training for quite a few years and has yearly training of every employee.

The only controversial thing about this whole situation is how employees who deal with customers on social media can be so ignorant to the ramifications of what they say to those customers.
 

Eila

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,941
I don't see why video games would be any different from every other industry, where you can get fired if you say something inappropiate online and it's found out it was you, no matter off the clock or what have you.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
That poor dev though, she basically found out that her boss is totally fine firing her if real gamers come along and say hey trans women are bad influence on children.

Imagine finding out that your CEO is like well if our gamers don't liek trans people... fire the trans woman.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,177
Greater Vancouver
Look what Im trying to say is, if you work at a big company, you need to protect yourself and don't do anything in social media that would affect your employment. Each individual person should know what those things are.
Well considering people are getting complaints sent in literally with placeholder markers for a woman's name to be inserted, apparently just being a woman or being trans is a thing people "shouldn't do" online.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,300
I don't understand why this is being treated as an unprecedented thing. People get fired all the time for the stuff they say on social media. How many times has there been a story of someone saying something racist or sexist on Twitter and getting axed for it? Too many to count. I don't know why the games industry should be exempt from this paradigm.
 

cmChimera

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,449
I'm sorry, but the OP is missing the point. Female developers are being attacked. And simply standing up for themselves causing them to be fired shouldn't be a thing.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,316
I only read what the Original Poster wrote in hes post and not the article. I answered the question of the original poster.

If thats what the article is about and its what actually happened, then no im not ok.

Brah you directly replied to me when i directly asked about the quote I directly posted in this thread.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
Another developer, who chose to remain anonymous, faced an especially coordinated attack, albeit an incompetently-handled one: The company this developer freelances for, she told Kotaku in a DM, received a "a three-digit number's" worth of letters complaining that it was morally wrong to hire "a transgender," that the quality of the studio's games had gone down since she and another woman were hired, and that her Twitter account set "a bad example for the letter-writer's children, who supposedly play this game."

For a brief period of time, the developer said, her CEO was ready to tell her boss to fire her. Then, another employee realized something was amiss with the letters. "Fifty or so of them glitched out with a lot of variables exposed, including %FEMALENAME," said the developer. This made it clear that the letters were simply form letters with blank spaces for the name of any woman that the mob wanted to attack.

A deeper look at the names and emails associated with the letters went to Facebook bot profiles and people whose profiles indicated associations with Gamergate or 4chan.

"This is 100% a response to the ArenaNet thing," the developer said. "Last Saturday there was a post on 4chan in the game's general discussion thread that said something like 'Reddit proved we can get bitches fired, isn't there a female that posts here? Let's get her fired, it'll be awesome, we have the power to do it.'"

it is never about "civility"
 

Min

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,068
These are organized harassment campaigns in an industry where workers are unable to organize themselves. Yeah, I think this is crossing a line.

But I blame the industry just as much as the harassers. The video game industry has created this epidemic. It's pandered to their 'consumer base' through years of marketing, telling their base that they are special, and neglect of community policing in the hopes of ever soaring profit margins. Video games are not about the art or the artists who create these interactive worlds; they're about base desires -- glut, lust, greed, pride, etc. -- at the heart of a capitalist system that is only there to target and appease a market into profit that investors can take to the bank. Workers are disposable, and I would hope many in the industry begin to question or search for a more reliable source of income.

In the interim, I hope companies have a sit down and review their online decorum policies and make it clear to employees. Apparently, ArenaNet had no internet decorum policy which makes the firing even more unjust. It's unethical and breaching upon personal freedoms to prohibit employees from having a social media, especially in a tech industry where business deals can be brought to fruition through DMs, and I don't see having a personal/professional media account solving anything, unless the personal account is walled -- which prohibits the user from engaging in some of the service's features.
 

Professor Beef

Official ResetEra™ Chao Puncher
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,499
The Digital World
Should companies be allowed to regulate or have a say in what their employees can or can't do on their private social media accounts?
Yes, mostly. When I worked at Nintendo they made their social media policy clear in that, while we are allowed to say what we want on Twitter/Facebook/etc, we also need to be mindful that we do not make the company look bad. A rule like that is so easy to follow that I'm consistently shocked at how many people tend to break it (in general, not at Nintendo).
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Full article: https://kotaku.com/in-the-wake-of-a...flow_Kotaku_Twitter&utm_source=Kotaku_Twitter

This is interesting. At most companies, your conduct outside of work can potentially affect your employment. However, this seems to be now extending into your "online" life / persona.

Although the article states "harassment", a lot of it has to do with social media.

Should companies be allowed to regulate or have a say in what their employees can or can't do on their private social media accounts?

Yes. Like Dennis said in the main thread you could have an employee spouting insane Nazi nonsense on twitter, damaging your company's reputation.