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Oct 30, 2017
4,190
Pretty comprehensive write up by Wired.

https://www.wired.com/story/mueller-indictment-dnc-hack-russia-fancy-bear/

While the new charges add tremendous detail to the public knowledge of Russia's unprecedented attack on the election, Mueller's indictment also leaves us with big, unanswered questions—and creates new questions, including three big ones:

What about Cozy Bear? The new indictment only covers the GRU hackers known as Fancy Bear. However, numerous public reports have pointed to involvement by the FSB, the Russian state intelligence service and successor to the KGB, and a hacking group there known as Cozy Bear. Reporting over the last year has hinted that Dutch intelligence provided detailed information to the US about the role and efforts in the 2016 election—up to and including individual photographs of intelligence officers at work in connection with the attacks. The Wall Street Journal reported last November that at least six individual Russian government hackers had been identified; it's unclear whether Mueller's indictment covers those six, but given the prevailing information that both the FSB and GRU were involved in the attacks, are there more charges pending about other FSB intelligence officers?

What about Roger Stone, George Papadopoulos, or any other Americans? One of the oddest storylines of the year-long Mueller probe has been Trump aide Roger Stone's did-he-or-didn't-he communications with the pseudonymous Guccifer 2.0 and WikiLeaks. Rosenstein made clear in his remarks, "The conspirators corresponded with several Americans through the internet. There is no allegation in the indictment that the Americans knew they were communicating with Russian intelligence officers." But that phrasing seems carefully chosen—and mirrors his comments in the indictment of the Internet Research Agency about the limits of that indictment. It doesn't rule out that future indictments might focus on the criminal behavior of Americans corresponding with the GRU or the IRA—nor would Americans necessarily have to know they were communicating with Russian intelligence officers to be guilty of various crimes.

What's the role of WikiLeaks? Rosenstein pointedly noted that the individuals charged Friday "transferred stolen documents to another organization, not named in the indictment, and discussed timing the release of the documents in an attempt to enhance the impact on the election." That organization almost certainly was the website WikiLeaks, or at least a cut-out that handed the documents to WikiLeaks, since that website ultimately published them. Then-CIA Director Mike Pompeo last year referred to WikiLeaks as "non-state hostile intelligence service," saying the Julian Assange-founded website "walks like a hostile intelligence service and talks like a hostile intelligence service" and is "often abetted by state actors like Russia." Pompeo also said that the Russian state TV channel RT, which was similarly deeply involved in many of the state-backed election propaganda efforts in 2016, has "actively collaborated" with WikiLeaks. Were his words omens that the controversial site itself would be the subject of a future indictment?
 

Lurkyseas

Banned
Dec 31, 2017
2,160
I dont want to make definitive statements until we see what comes from the investigation.

He could be freaking out because hes incapable of not taking things personally and/or maybe he did shady financial shit.

Regardless, based just on the public stuff him and his family have shown incredibly poor judgement at every turn.

You just explained one of the crooked things that he did.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,392
Good. Send a message to Russia & Putin that this will not be tolerated.



Innocent people don't always freak out or try to stop an investigation if they didn't do anything wrong.

Trump also knew about these indictments on Monday, and still made his usual witch hunt tweets anyway and complained about the lack of Hillary/Podesta/DNC collusion investigations. Doesn't sound like someone all that interested in protecting the integrity of our elections or getting to the bottom of this either.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,392
Greenwald and Wohl really showing their asses on Twitter today. You really, really have to let the mask slip for "let's pardon the Russian hackers to own the libs" or "people taking the DoJ at face value against Russian hackers even with 29 pages of receipts are being unreasonable" to be your first reaction to this news.

I'm still holding out hope that Glenn is just being willfully obtuse because he was used, horribly, for most of the past two years, not that he was in the know and trying to cover it up like Oakeshott in the UK.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,851
Greenwald just believes in the "deep state" and anything that comes out of the intelligence community is BS, fake etc.

They could show him all the (classified) Intelligence and he'd still think it's fake.
 

jelly

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
33,841
It's quite weird looking back on Wikileaks. Where they always a Russian puppet outfit? Didn't Cumberbatch do a film about Assangw, oh dear.
 

SegFault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
It's quite weird looking back on Wikileaks. Where they always a Russian puppet outfit? Didn't Cumberbatch do a film about Assangw, oh dear.

i dont believe so. They were certainly pretty against America (tbh given what they had and released... yea) but around the time Assange ended up in the Ecuadorian embassy is when it really went super anti-american and into russian hands and Assange lost his mind, or showed his true colors, whichever you prefer to think of it as.
 

Kernel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,851
i dont believe so. They were certainly pretty against America (tbh given what they had and released... yea) but around the time Assange ended up in the Ecuadorian embassy is when it really went super anti-american and into russian hands and Assange lost his mind, or showed his true colors, whichever you prefer to think of it as.

WikiLeaks seemed "legit" until the US made visa and MC block giving donations to them after Manning.

Assange is broke, gets money from Russia and suddenly has a show on RT etc.
 
Sorry but it's not very hard to draw that conclusion. You'd be the only pro WL anti Trump person I've ran into on the net.
Nah, man. The "Russia sympathizer" meme comes from the Sunken Place (the old forum). But no one on here would ever say I'm a Trump supporter. Of all the mean things I've been called over the years from the old place to here, this is the one thing that hurt my feelings lol
 

SegFault

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,939
WikiLeaks seemed "legit" until the US made visa and MC block giving donations to them after Manning.

Assange is broke, gets money from Russia and suddenly has a show on RT etc.

ah yea i forgot about the payment blocking. seems like a good time as any for Russia to have stepped up here then.
 

Azerach

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,196
Nah, man. The "Russia sympathizer" meme comes from the Sunken Place (the old forum). But no one on here would ever say I'm a Trump supporter. Of all the mean things I've been called over the years from the old place to here, this is the one thing that hurt my feelings lol
You are just a passionate patriot whose interests align with russians.
 

Beer Monkey

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,308
On or about June 22, 2016, Organization 1 sent a private message to Guccifer 2.0 to "end any new material [stolen from the DNC] here for us to review and it will have a much higher impact than what you are doing." On or about July 6, 2016, Organization 1 added, "if you have anything hillary related we want it in the next tweo [sic] days preferable [sic] because the DNC [Democratic National Convention] is approaching and she will solidify bernie supporters behind her after." The Conspirators responded, "ok . . . i see." Organization 1 explained, "we think trump has only a 25% chance of winning against hillary . . . so conflict between bernie and hillary is interesting."

After failed attempts to transfer the stolen documents starting in late June 2016, on or about July 14, 2016, the Conspirators, posing as Guccifer 2.0, sent Organization 1 an email with an attachment titled "wk dnc link1.txt.gpg."

Cough.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
This is crazy and the lengths Republicans are going to to consolidate their power and try to stop the investigation are crazy.

Today's news should be good news but it isn't because I don't think we've seen the lengths they will go to yet to defend their party or personal complicitness. They won't take this lying down, time is running out until the 2018 elections, and they've polarized half the country to be distrusting of everyone but their benevolent authoritarians.

 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
He isn't but he is a Russia/Wikileaks stan, which is the same level of fucking stupid. It's taking the whole anti-america thing to a whole 'nother level.

Are you implying being anti American is fucking stupid?

The way I see it, Wikileaks, Assange and the rest of the whistleblowers have been coopted by the GRU to serve Russian agenda. Fine by me really, as someone who comes from a region that has suffered terribly from American meddling and invasion.

Trump, a moronic idiot and an incompetent buffoon installed as a head of state is a taste of America's own medicine served by Russia, for decades of meddling and interfering in internal affairs of foreign nations leading to civil wars, Henry Kissinger must be in awe at what the Russians have managed to do.
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833
Somewhere
Are you implying being anti American is fucking stupid?

The way I see it, Wikileaks, Assange and the rest of the whistleblowers have been coopted by the GRU to serve Russian agenda. Fine by me really, as someone who comes from a region that has suffered terribly from American meddling and invasion.

Trump, a moronic idiot and an incompetent buffoon installed as a head of state is a taste of America's own medicine served by Russia, for decades of meddling and interfering in internal affairs of foreign nations leading to civil wars, Henry Kissinger must be in awe at what the Russians have managed to do.

Don't fucking start rooting for the Russians... yikes.
 

UltimateHigh

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,500
Are you implying being anti American is fucking stupid?

The way I see it, Wikileaks, Assange and the rest of the whistleblowers have been coopted by the GRU to serve Russian agenda. Fine by me really, as someone who comes from a region that has suffered terribly from American meddling and invasion.

Trump, a moronic idiot and an incompetent buffoon installed as a head of state is a taste of America's own medicine served by Russia, for decades of meddling and interfering in internal affairs of foreign nations leading to civil wars, Henry Kissinger must be in awe at what the Russians have managed to do.

I'm implying there's insane levels to this nonsense, levels in which both you and FreedomFighter are currently occupying.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,018
MSNBC played a clip of Trump saying Wikileaks and it was incredible. Hope they post that online soon.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
Don't fucking start rooting for the Russians... yikes.

Not rooting, don't care for either nations. This if you're not with us then you're against us shtick is getting tiring.

Coming from the middle east, a region suffering from the interference of both nations, let them have at each others throats.

I will however revel in the irony that someone turned the tables on the Americans, don't care who it is.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Nov 14, 2017
18,392
Are you implying being anti American is fucking stupid?

The way I see it, Wikileaks, Assange and the rest of the whistleblowers have been coopted by the GRU to serve Russian agenda. Fine by me really, as someone who comes from a region that has suffered terribly from American meddling and invasion.

Trump, a moronic idiot and an incompetent buffoon installed as a head of state is a taste of America's own medicine served by Russia, for decades of meddling and interfering in internal affairs of foreign nations leading to civil wars, Henry Kissinger must be in awe at what the Russians have managed to do.

There is a level of difference between openly and genuinely hating/ wishing to subvert America, and willfully supporting/lying about that subversion.

You want to tell America to fuck off? Fine. Hope Russia sends us into a downward spiral? You do you.

American citizens don't get to do that.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
Are you implying being anti American is fucking stupid?

The way I see it, Wikileaks, Assange and the rest of the whistleblowers have been coopted by the GRU to serve Russian agenda. Fine by me really, as someone who comes from a region that has suffered terribly from American meddling and invasion.

Trump, a moronic idiot and an incompetent buffoon installed as a head of state is a taste of America's own medicine served by Russia, for decades of meddling and interfering in internal affairs of foreign nations leading to civil wars, Henry Kissinger must be in awe at what the Russians have managed to do.

Yes I'm sure wherever you're located is better with a sociopathic moron as president of the United States. And the thousands of brown people who have been separated from their children fleeing persecution and death certainly thank you for posts like these.

You don't have a high horse when you act like an unempathetic clown.
 

nasirum

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,833
Somewhere
Not rooting, don't care for either nations. This if you're not with us then you're against us shtick is getting tiring.

Coming from the middle east, a region suffering from the interference of both nations, let them have at each others throats.

I will however revel in the irony that someone turned the tables on the Americans, don't care who it is.

Well then you can kindly get bent because I live here and I care. Guess I shouldn't care what's happening in your neck of the woods then?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
It's quite weird looking back on Wikileaks. Where they always a Russian puppet outfit? Didn't Cumberbatch do a film about Assangw, oh dear.
There was a good rundown (might've been on twitter) of its history some point in the last year or two. It appears it was started in good faith in the first year or two, but then many of the cofounders left and Assange eventually was left alone in control of it, and it eventually transitioned into straight up being a Russian propaganda arm.

Wikileaks' history of not redacting the Manning cables to avoid outing sources all the way to not redacting SSN/CC numbers in the DNC leaks and such is the reason I was never ok with them from the start even though they were ostensibly "liberal" in the Bush years. They've never cared about collateral damage and we now know why that was. The whole "open access info for everything" thing was also mindblowingly stupid and naive as an precept to follow in the modern world.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
Are you implying being anti American is fucking stupid?

The way I see it, Wikileaks, Assange and the rest of the whistleblowers have been coopted by the GRU to serve Russian agenda. Fine by me really, as someone who comes from a region that has suffered terribly from American meddling and invasion.

Trump, a moronic idiot and an incompetent buffoon installed as a head of state is a taste of America's own medicine served by Russia, for decades of meddling and interfering in internal affairs of foreign nations leading to civil wars, Henry Kissinger must be in awe at what the Russians have managed to do.

As someone who also hates US Foreign policy to the core and is somewhat enjoying the sweet irony of someone finally meddling in their affairs, don't forget that there are plenty of people just like everywhere else under tyrannical regimes facing incredibly hard times as a result of this. Fuck the US government but if you think Russia has anything better in store for the world if/when they take the reins as the leading world power I don't know what to tell you. Maybe let's have another approach to dismantling global US terrorism without also empowering even worse tyrants in the process? Just my take on it.
 

Muad'dib

Banned
Jun 7, 2018
1,253
User warned: inflammatory tone and rhetoric
Yes I'm sure wherever you're located is better with a sociopathic moron as president of the United States. And the thousands of brown people who have been separated from their children fleeing persecution and death certainly thank you for posts like these.

You don't have a high horse when you act like an unempathetic clown.

You think after years of occupation, wars and embargoes from Americans both repubs and democrats, WE BROWN people give a shit what the Russians do to you or vice versa? Nope, we just chillin'.

Well then you can kindly get bent because I live here and I care. Guess I shouldn't care what's happening in your neck of the woods then?

Nah I won't. The arrogance of American exceptionalism on display here, for years you get to have your opinions on US foreign politics, in the middle east and everywhere, now I can't have an opinion? Nope.
 

OrdinaryPrime

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,042
You think after years of occupation, wars and embargoes from Americans both repubs and democrats, WE BROWN people give a shit what the Russians do to you or vice versa? Nope, we just chillin'.

Nero, you don't even seem to care about other brown people.

Nah I won't. The arrogance of American exceptionalism on display here, for years you get to have your opinions on US foreign politics, in the middle east and everywhere, now I can't have an opinion? Nope.

Your opinion is basically Nelson from the Simpsons laughing as the world burns. None of this is good for whatever country you live in.