How exactly do you know ArenaNet's behavior was "absolutely influenced" by the mob?
The tweet alone, in a vacuum, is enough reason for her to be let go.
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The controversial ArenaNet firings of Guild Wars 2 writers (READ OP)
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How exactly do you know ArenaNet's behavior was "absolutely influenced" by the mob?
The tweet alone, in a vacuum, is enough reason for her to be let go.
Another ?
The hate mob against her has been around since long before her outburst that got her fired. ArenaNet has known about that for a while. ArenaNet's talk is cheap, their actions speak for themselves.
It's really quite simple: the speed and public-facing nature of the firing.
She'd been targeted by a hate mob for a long time prior to her outburst -> she has an outburst -> a campaign to get her fired starts IMMEDIATELY -> she gets fired literally as quickly as ArenaNet can possibly fire her -> a guy colleague also gets fired for involving himself in the discussion...
...and you think the hate mob didn't influence ArenaNet's decision in any way? ZERO influence?
Ok guy.
She wasn't the only one fired. This thread isn't only about her firing, but the larger event surrounding it too.
Okay. Their statement isn't about this thread though? They specifically state her/their firing was the catalyst for this statement, which doesn't make sense to me, because their statement is about harassment and the firing was about her being an asshole to one of her companies customers.
This is simply untrue. I feel like you still haven't read the thread on Twitter... She mentioned nothing about branching dialogue in her detailed explanation of how they approach dialogue. It all seemed to be under the assumption that only one dialogue choice could ever be available, which may be true when it comes to Guild Wars 2, but that was not explained at all. This is within the context of declaring that making player characters compelling is probably an impossible feat (despite many RPGs using branching dialogue and other ideas in attempt to solve just that).
That's you just straight making shit up, you know?
She could have been describing anything with that statement and you decide to interpret it as "branching dialogue" options. Very charitable interpretation to fit your narrative of Deroir being a Bad Guy.
User Banned (1 Day) - Hostility
Who the fuck are you to make such bold declarations? Get out of here with this noise.
How about we actually care about the circumstances of individual situations instead of looking at everything in some black and white grand crusade where the lines are clearly divided in the sand between Good and Bad.
This "you're either with us or against us" shit from some of you is getting insane.
You have no idea of Price, or Fries's history with the company, and any previous infractions or documentation or warning that may have been cited against them. For legal and privacy law reasons alone legal teams of companies aren't in the habit of airing what happens with their employees generally speaking.
You are not a member of Arena Net, their PR team, management team, nor legal team. You are going based off of your own gut reaction and feelings to something and the stories that have been published thus far which I personally do not feel are entirely accurate.
Ask yourself this. The only people speaking out right now is Price, and the various articles covering this.
If a wrongful termination suit were brought forth, in a court of law, which would bear the weight of Scrutiny?
Newspaper articles and one individuals words that only paints their side of the incident, which by default due to emotions alone for most people would not be objective?
Or Legal documents that were signed that says as part of the terms of your employment you agree to x contract, x harassment policy, and x social media policy that bears the signature of said individuals that states they agree to those employment terms?
No. They didn't.
She got fired because she made an unwarranted, aggressive, accusatory, assholish tweet to one of her employers customers on her Twitter which explicitly states her employment and during a discussion about her job.
There is absolutely nothing controversial about the situation at all. I'd go as far to say that it's a pretty uninteresting piece of news if not for the massive spin a bunch of people have been trying to put on it.
It fits with the wider discussion around company policies like better/more transparent rules around social media. Is Fries getting fired just as clear cut in your mind? If no, then you can see why this is relevant to this topic. If yes, then we'll have to disagree.
Fries is a little trickier. It was nowhere near as malicious but his ridiculous "mansplaining" accusations were every bit as unfounded and childish, so if ArenaNet feels they don't want him representing the company then it is what it is.
He comes out looking better because he didn't double down on the shit. I'm sure he'll land on his feet.
That is a willful misreading of the entire situation but hey, if you want to believe the entire thing is manufactured then you can go ahead, just don't be surprised when people disagree.
To be fair the other stance of making assumptions and ignoring evidence just to hang this on Gamer Gate is just as guilty of willful misreading. People are seeing what they want to see in this situation. Whatever fits the narrative they want to see is what happened. I think this thread should probably be closed. The same people have been talking in circles for a long time. Nothing productive is coming from this.
User Banned (Permanent): Trolling + Pushing false narratives, account still in the junior phase.
This site is biased as hell. People in here free to insinuate Deroir is an alt-right, sexist, mansplainer. And painting Price as the victim. Thoroughly disappointing.
Not really. It's looking at the facts that we have to work with.
Unlike a bunch of people who are trying to fill in a bunch of blanks that don't exist with some grand conspiracies.
I don't think you're going to find any disagreement to this on Era.
Eh, Price is a victim. She probably wouldn't have been fired without external pressure, no matter how much ArenaNet try to deny it.
The only thing she's a victim of in this specific incident is herself.
Can you at least understand why some people would like companies to have a more transparent social media policy if the tweets Fries made alone were enough to fire him on the day?
Well, that's last part isn't really true now is it? I mean, the hate groups ARE using this as ground to stand on and are currently extra active in trying to get women in trouble. That is fact.
People can believe Price (that ANet caved to the mob) or ANet (who says the mob had nothing to do with it and it was just because of her attitude/what she said) but that doesn't matter much in the aftermath - which has made the hate mob think they are in charge.
You're full of shit. It's very easy to read the actual words with timestamps to follow this conversation. You put in zero effort and instead decided to make some crazy declarations based on a situation imagined in your head.
Fires? Yeah maybe it would have helped and benefited a bit. Still doesn't have to do with harassment, more so conduct. It's still bordering on common sense for me.
What grand conspiracy? You're the one pretending that the organized hate mob that already existed prior to this had ZERO influence on Arenanet's decision.
Why intentionally ignore those facts?
Sure, but this thread isn't about the controversial fallout from the situation. It's about the "controversial" firings, which is pretty disingenuous.
Not pretending. Just looking at what happened.
Sometimes there's no more to a situation than what's in plain site. What's in plain site is an employee being an asshole and dismissive to a consumer for no good reason. That's a perfectly valid explanation for a firing. Her doubling down on the situation just serves as further evidence that they made the right call and that regardless of a hate mob she isn't the type of person you want to call your employee.
You know, the most amazing thing about this 'controversy' is that it could have been so simply avoided if she had just responded nicely to a fan and partner of the game. I hope her meltdown was worth losing not only her job but getting another longtime partner of the company dismissed. Did she deserve such a harsh punishment? Hell no. Should be not be a raging bitch for no fucking reason? Yes.
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there is a narrative spreading that the alt-right only found out about her comments after the announcement of her being fired, and as such cannot have participated in any harassment against her
according to this narrative, the outrage against her was only building in the guild wars communities on reddit and official forums. the alt-right didn't get involved until after she was fired
this is false
below is a screenshots from /pol/ when they first started discussing the tweet. look at the time stamps. keep in mind that the time stamps are for my time zone which is 6 hours ahead of EST
the alt-right was aware of this controversy already on july 4, US time, over 18 hours before she was fired. as such, i have no doubt that they helped stoke the fires in the guild war communities and contributed to the campaigns demanding her being fired
according to this narrative, the outrage against her was only building in the guild wars communities on reddit and official forums. the alt-right didn't get involved until after she was fired
this is false
below is a screenshots from /pol/ when they first started discussing the tweet. look at the time stamps. keep in mind that the time stamps are for my time zone which is 6 hours ahead of EST
the alt-right was aware of this controversy already on july 4, US time, over 18 hours before she was fired. as such, i have no doubt that they helped stoke the fires in the guild war communities and contributed to the campaigns demanding her being fired
/pol/ was aware of her comments, so of course she was being harassed. stop spreading false narratives
Wait - we can all agree that if she didn't act how she acted she would still be employed. Isn't it her fault then that she was fired? Her fault directly? So...how much blame to you place on her for her own actions? none?
Edit: and if the hate mob was already after her in the first place and she was still employed and hadn't been fired, isn't that more evidence that her actions caused her firing?
there is a narrative spreading that the alt-right only found out about her comments after the announcement of her being fired, and as such cannot have participated in any harassment against her
according to this narrative, the outrage against her was only building in the guild wars communities on reddit and official forums. the alt-right didn't get involved until after she was fired
this is false
below is a screenshots from /pol/ when they first started discussing the tweet. look at the time stamps. keep in mind that the time stamps are for my time zone which is 6 hours ahead of EST
the alt-right was aware of this controversy already on july 4, US time, over 18 hours before she was fired. as such, i have no doubt that they helped stoke the fires in the guild war communities and contributed to the campaigns demanding her being fired
/pol/ was aware of her comments, so of course she was being harassed. stop spreading false narratives
Her firing had nothing to do with her being harassed. She wasn't being harassed by the person she lashed out at that resulted in her termination.
That's not a false narrative.
Had her tweet been directed at someone who WAS harassing her, the harassment would be relevant to the case.
Well, then, detective, it should be simple to find plentiful evidence of Guild Wars 2 communities calling for her head within that 18 hour window.
She didn't even need to respond nicely. If she just kept it at her curt "my dude" tweet, I feel like it would have ended there. But she escalated it once to humiliate him, and then again to call him names.
She should've been reprimanded for sure, but firing her and the other guy was clearly due to pressure from the angry mob. I don't think that's up for discussion at this point.
You posted a picture of people on the internet being assholes, you did not post a picture of a hate group conspiring to get her fired. You are just as guilty of spreading a "false narrative". Until you have proof that they were conspiring to get her fired it's all based on assumptions. You can choose to assume, but don't be antagonistic to those who choose not to assume.
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do you seriously need a smoking gun of people going "let's organize a campaign"?
this is proof the alt-right knew of the tweets long before she was fired, i don't doubt for a second that they knew what to do next
there is a narrative spreading that the alt-right only found out about her comments after the announcement of her being fired, and as such cannot have participated in any harassment against her
according to this narrative, the outrage against her was only building in the guild wars communities on reddit and official forums. the alt-right didn't get involved until after she was fired
this is false
below is a screenshots from /pol/ when they first started discussing the tweet. look at the time stamps. keep in mind that the time stamps are for my time zone which is 6 hours ahead of EST
the alt-right was aware of this controversy already on july 4, US time, over 18 hours before she was fired. as such, i have no doubt that they helped stoke the fires in the guild war communities and contributed to the campaigns demanding her being fired
/pol/ was aware of her comments, so of course she was being harassed. stop spreading false narratives
Thank you.
The lengths people go to to absolve the hate mob of any involvement is pretty bizarre. A have mob that was VERIFIABLY involved in orchestrating the outrage.
The lengths people go to to pretend this was anything more than a simple case of an employee getting fired for being an asshole to a customer is far, far more bizarre.
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i thought those links were already well known
https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/dis...nanet-writers-think-about-their-playerbase/p1
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/8w3q4n/must_be_a_thrill_to_work_with_this_dev/
(those discussions started on the own before 4chan saw it. what i'm saying is that 4chan and allies helped stoke the fires there after they found out)
Yes, "clearly." I don't need the fucking dictionary definition, thank you.
I still think she was in the wrong, but two people were fired pretty much instantly when it should've been a warning or lesser disciplinary actions, at most. Something doesn't add up.
No, this was in response to another female dev at a different studio who was harassed shortly after Price was fired.
This is gamergate shit. They're going after any visible woman in gaming and filing complaints trying to get them fired.
Edit: Here's their tweet. This has nothing to do with Price's firing. This has to the with the hatemob trying to get other women devs fired at different companies.
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Yes. Believe it or not, you need evidence to make a claim.
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Not going to look at the Reddit thread because that site is a goddamn mess to navigate and understand posts chronologically, but that GW2 forum thread, at a cursory glance, looks largely like the discussion being had in this very thread with some very split opinions on the matter and no one really demanding her head or threatening to leave the game with her around. And a 3 page thread on a forum doesn't really strike me as a coordinate Gamer Gate mob attack.
Those are pretty damn common with the GG crowd...
Yes, there needs to be evidence. Otherwise you are just making wild assumptions and accusing people of spreading false narratives when you are doing the very same thing.
I mean that hasn't stopped people on this forum before -> see the Joe Rogan Alt Right thread going on right now
Where?
I have only seen claims that it was the community that got pissed first and then the hate mob flooded into the GW2 community places (reddit and official forums) to take credit and/or fuel the fire, or claim to be "concerned" customers (even tho their post history clearly showed otherwise).
This claim I find to be quite reasonable. The discussions even on (GW2) reddit were pretty matter of fact with community members saying this was not okay for them, before the hate mob flooded it after an hour or so and started twisting it into what it became ("she's a SJW woman and therefore bad (and he is a cuck)").
I mean, of course the hate mob found it immediately, they pretty much stalked her already.
I disagree based on some of the responses in here - lots of condemnation of Price with no recognition of the wider complex context in which this happened.
And regardless, I think it's still important to vocalize support even if it's in line with others views. Some people call it an echo chamber, but otherwise you get a silent majority problem.