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Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
Then why in the world wouldn't Nintendo tell a reviewer about that when explicitly asked?

If i knew what people at Nintendo think, i'd probably become the CBOAT of Nintendo ... aka dunno dude. ^^

It's possible that few people at Nintendo knew about it, because in the end, it's still a SQEX game and i could see that a majority of QA and communication with the label responsible for the guide was done by SQEX, with Nintendo maybe only paying the bill in the end. Who knows. Likely that we never get to know whatever reasons there are.
 

Seth_M

Editor Man
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
10
I have played 55 hours. There are areas that function as the normal dungeons, with the usual structure and layout, and when you get to where the "boss" would normally be in the other dungeons, there's
nothing at all.
I have only completed 2 of the 8 tales so far, and I'm on the final chapter for the other 6. It seems odd
one of the areas is Danger Level 58, but has no boss or item at the end, while others are far less high-danger. This leads me to believe yes, there is something more at the end. Will it tie the stories together? I would be surprised and after playing all the stories to their final chapters without overlap, it would be weird if suddenly they came together. It would also be exciting and cool but I feel like it's unlikely. I'm going to play more this weekend.
 
Feb 5, 2018
2,939
PLEASE. Playing coy in with fans? Fine. But reviewers? Why would you want them to miss out on something like that? Something that could potentially change the tone of a review (although I'm going to guess that it doesn't tie things together nearly as much as some people would seem to believe here. Just given the rest of the structure.)

Depends on the reviewer. Most people didn't mind the character interactions. Kotaku is just one reviewer out of many and games back in the 90's/2000's were also vastly misunderstood for these reasons because Publishers/Developers kept hidden content....hidden.


And if you really want to know:

Post-game side quests tie the story between the 8 characters better. And apparently the secret dungeon does tie all 8 stories together narratively and lore-wise. Someone needs to play it though and confirm that though.
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,943
Tbilisi, Georgia
Guys, I wouldn't hold it against the reviewers if they missed a big post-game thing that was deliberately well-hidden and made so one has to carefully piece it together to uncover.

This approach is bold and potentially has serious merit, but it's also likely to be missed by reviewers running on tight schedules.

So yeah, if it turns out that this supposed post-game content and the detective quest required to find it a big positive aspect of the game, the WoM (and maybe some late reviews) will set things straight, so stop worrying and don't hold it against reviewers.

If it doesn't exist or ain't much in any sense, then you will also end up looking bad (worse), so don't antagonize anyone over it.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
People with a dumb bone with pick with Kotaku will come in and feign ignorance just to take a quick shot. "Oh this guy I've never heard of, what was his name again? Jason Schreier? Maybe yeah maybe that was it. He sucks. I really hated I think it was in 2016 on June 2nd at 10:01 am that he made this comment, I can't remember -- " etc etc.

I really hope there's some kind of post game but as an outsider looking in, this looks a LOT like the MGS V thread. :(

I'm just amused that here it's consistently XBC2 they're angry over; seeing someone on Twitter angry over his Bravely Default review instead was almost refreshing.

(...as soon as they patched it, my mind immediately went to, if there was no postgame, people pulling a MGSV with waiting for it to be patched.)

PLEASE. Playing coy in with fans? Fine. But reviewers? Why would you want them to miss out on something like that? Something that could potentially change the tone of a review (although I'm going to guess that it doesn't tie things together nearly as much as some people would seem to believe here. Just given the rest of the structure.)

There's also that they literally could tell reviewers not to talk about it much beyond saying that it exists, but still tell them that it's important to see and how to see it.

I dunno why stealth was banned. He'd be right at home in this thread.

Was he banned over going at Jason offsite when he misunderstood some posts, or something else?
 
Last edited:
Feb 5, 2018
2,939
I have played 55 hours. There are areas that function as the normal dungeons, with the usual structure and layout, and when you get to where the "boss" would normally be in the other dungeons, there's
nothing at all.
I have only completed 2 of the 8 tales so far, and I'm on the final chapter for the other 6. It seems odd
one of the areas is Danger Level 58, but has no boss or item at the end, while others are far less high-danger. This leads me to believe yes, there is something more at the end. Will it tie the stories together? I would be surprised and after playing all the stories to their final chapters without overlap, it would be weird if suddenly they came together. It would also be exciting and cool but I feel like it's unlikely. I'm going to play more this weekend.


Keep us updated! This sounds exciting.
 

scare_crow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,309
Depends on the reviewer. Most people didn't mind the character interactions. Kotaku is just one reviewer out of many and games back in the 90's/2000's were also vastly misunderstood for these reasons because Publishers/Developers kept hidden content....hidden.


And if you really want to know:

Post-game side quests tie the story between the 8 characters better. And apparently the secret dungeon does tie all 8 stories together narratively and lore-wise. Someone needs to play it though and confirm that though.

I don't remember that at all. What games do you have in mind?
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,083
I have played 55 hours. There are areas that function as the normal dungeons, with the usual structure and layout, and when you get to where the "boss" would normally be in the other dungeons, there's
nothing at all.
I have only completed 2 of the 8 tales so far, and I'm on the final chapter for the other 6. It seems odd
one of the areas is Danger Level 58, but has no boss or item at the end, while others are far less high-danger. This leads me to believe yes, there is something more at the end. Will it tie the stories together? I would be surprised and after playing all the stories to their final chapters without overlap, it would be weird if suddenly they came together. It would also be exciting and cool but I feel like it's unlikely. I'm going to play more this weekend.
Those are side quest dungeons. The bosses only appear when you're doing that particular side quest.
 

Vire

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
I'm not being facetious at all, the lack of the overaching story is a positive to me. It feels like an innovation or brings uniqueness to the genre, I don't think I can stand one more "a bunch of rag tag young individuals band together to defeat the great evil of the land using the power of friendship" storylines.

If the game focuses on smaller more personal stories, that is definitely more interesting to me. If the quality of those stories isn't good, that's another issue entirely.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Even just knowing the name of the hidden OST tracks is enough to figure out a bunch of stuff purely based on plot details revealed in the Prologue Demo. Saying it doesn't tie stuff together or doesn't count as overarching is going to require massive contortions.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,494
If i knew what people at Nintendo think, i'd probably become the CBOAT of Nintendo ... aka dunno dude. ^^

It's possible that few people at Nintendo knew about it, because in the end, it's still a SQEX game and i could see that a majority of QA and communication with the label responsible for the guide was done by SQEX, with Nintendo maybe only paying the bill in the end. Who knows. Likely that we never get to know whatever reasons there are.

They knew about it, to be clear. Based on Jason's disclaimer in his review they vaguely told him that side quests were involved, so they knew what was up; it was an intentional choice to not have reviewers know about it.

I'm guessing it was supposed to be a surprise when a few people figured it out and word of mouth spread, but that feels like a misreading of people's expectations/confusion over it existing beforehand, and how fast the internet works.

The real question is why are we reporting on some random guy's tweet in the first place?

It was posted in the preview thread, and so it was discussed.

...it was posted in the preview thread by the person who tweeted it, but...
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,161
Singapore
PLEASE. Playing coy in with fans? Fine. But reviewers? Why would you want them to miss out on something like that? Something that could potentially change the tone of a review (although I'm going to guess that it doesn't tie things together nearly as much as some people would seem to believe here. Just given the rest of the structure.)
There is no "rest of the structure". The game is exactly what it advertises itself to be - 8 playable characters, each with their own story in the world. There's optional stuff, including post-game content which people seem happy to spoil themselves on just to make some dumb gotcha rebuttal to reviews they don't agree with. The entire thing is stupid. Many RPGs have optional content and endgame/post-game content, they don't change what the game actually is.
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
I don't remember that at all. What games do you have in mind?

Best comparison that comes to mind is Demon's Crest, where Phalanx gets a second phase and the map get's updated with a (short) final dungeon and a "true" final boss if you manage to find all items and crests ... iirc. It's been real long since i played it.
 

DannyVice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
456
In what order should i do everything? Should i pick up all the eight characters and then do one and one storyline? Or will i outlevel stuff? I'm a bit confused :/
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,083
Even just knowing the name of the hidden OST tracks is enough to figure out a bunch of stuff purely based on plot details revealed in the Prologue Demo. Saying it doesn't tie stuff together is going to require massive contortions.
Has anyone -- anyone? -- said that there's nothing in this game that ties the lore together? There are side quests based on NPCs from each character's story, and there are lots of lore hints in each story that have been brought up many times in this thread already.

The only argument I've been making, which is the same one I've been making for a week now, is that this is a game about eight different standalone stories, each with their own beginnings, middles, and ends. Opinions will certainly vary on the quality of these stories, but one thing is not subjective: They're all entirely standalone. Each character has their own relationships, their own goals, and most importantly, their own emotional arc that concludes with their Chapter 4. Some of these arcs are better than others, but they all have emotional conclusions. That's what this game is. That's what the stories are.

As more info comes out about potential postgame content (which I'm currently in the process of trying to unlock as we speak -- if only I could find this damn Lapis Lazuli), we'll see exactly what else is in here, but that doesn't change the nature of the game. I'm not sure how to make this any clearer.
 

Seth_M

Editor Man
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
10
In what order should i do everything? Should i pick up all the eight characters and then do one and one storyline? Or will i outlevel stuff? I'm a bit confused :/
You will definitely outlevel yourself. If you complete each chapter with each character as you go, it's easier to keep everyone in balance.
 
Feb 5, 2018
2,939
I don't remember that at all. What games do you have in mind?

SaGa Frontier and its sequel. Sure, both can feel pretty disjointed at times (similar to criticisms made for this game), but many people (including reviewers) stopped playing the game part of the way through because of this. Underneath was a series of complex and enjoyable combat systems if you actually got used to the games and played all of the characters stories. SaGa Frontier 2 fixed this issue by only having 2 plotlines instead of 7, with an actual intertwined conclusion, but also misunderstood because it changed what people new about the SaGa games (making it more linear, etc).

Even FFT wasn't considered one of the best FF games until people started to understand the games mechanics more on a depth level.
 

Liliana

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,375
NYC
If i knew what people at Nintendo think, i'd probably become the CBOAT of Nintendo ... aka dunno dude. ^^

It's possible that few people at Nintendo knew about it, because in the end, it's still a SQEX game and i could see that a majority of QA and communication with the label responsible for the guide was done by SQEX, with Nintendo maybe only paying the bill in the end. Who knows. Likely that we never get to know whatever reasons there are.

FYI, CBOAT was not a real person, as confirmed by our very own Zhuge. He was a burner account for mods, mostly used to leak or spread negative Xbox-related news.
 

Seth_M

Editor Man
Verified
Oct 30, 2017
10
Has anyone -- anyone? -- said that there's nothing in this game that ties the lore together? There are side quests based on NPCs from each character's story, and there are lots of lore hints in each story that have been brought up many times in this thread already.

The only argument I've been making, which is the same one I've been making for a week now, is that this is a game about eight different standalone stories, each with their own beginnings, middles, and ends. Opinions will certainly vary on the quality of these stories, but one thing is not subjective: They're all entirely standalone. Each character has their own relationships, their own goals, and most importantly, their own emotional arc that concludes with their Chapter 4. Some of these arcs are better than others, but they all have emotional conclusions. That's what this game is. That's what the stories are.

As more info comes out about potential postgame content (which I'm currently in the process of trying to unlock as we speak -- if only I could find this damn Lapis Lazuli), we'll see exactly what else is in here, but that doesn't change the nature of the game. I'm not sure how to make this any clearer.
Yes but there is a song on the OST that sounds very much like the kind of song that would play when all 8 stories come together in a cohesive and satisfying way to defeat some manner of ultimate evil hinted at all along.
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
They knew about it, to be clear. Based on Jason's disclaimer in his review they vaguely told him that side quests were involved, so they knew what was up; it was an intentional choice to not have reviewers know about it.

I'm guessing it was supposed to be a surprise when a few people figured it out and word of mouth spread, but that feels like a misreading of people's expectations/confusion over it existing beforehand, and how fast the internet works.

Possible, maybe the PR guys at Nintendo had been told by SQEX that the postgame stuff requires certain side-quests but not which? Many things are possible, best to move on about why. Now to wait for some extreme fast player to tackle the postgame stuff.

FYI, CBOAT was not a real person, as confirmed by our very own Zhuge. He was a burner account for mods, mostly used to leak or spread negative Xbox-related news.

Way to crush my dream of ever becoming a nearly always correct leaker with some real bad grammar and spelling .... -_-

^^
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
Yes but there is a song on the OST that sounds very much like the kind of song that would play when all 8 stories come together in a cohesive and satisfying way to defeat some manner of ultimate evil hinted at all along.
lol but I guess the point is that if that is only 3% of the game, would that change the general statement that the game features stories that don't really intertwine?

Anyway, I'm probably headed to GameStop to pick this up soon. They open in thirty minutes :)
 

Marukoban

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,298
People expecting World of Ruin kind of post content is going to be on a rude awakening lol.
I'm expecting the post content to be additional super dungeon with super boss.
Might have few additional scenes. It won't change the fact that this is a game about 8 separate stories, which is the bulk of the game.
I don't even agree with Jason's assessment of this game, but I kinda feel bad for him how people keep bringing that false tweet.
 

takriel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,221
I'm really excited to try this out. Loved Bravely Default, so I'm in for this!
 

Niceguydan8

Member
Nov 1, 2017
3,411
As more info comes out about potential postgame content (which I'm currently in the process of trying to unlock as we speak -- if only I could find this damn Lapis Lazuli), we'll see exactly what else is in here, but that doesn't change the nature of the game. I'm not sure how to make this any clearer.

Wouldn't that actually change the nature of the game at least a little bit though? Wouldn't it go from being about 8 standalone stories with a beginning, middle, and end to 8 standalone stories with a beginning, middle, and as well as postgame content that at least makes an attempt at tying the party together in some way?

I don't see how you can say the existence of something different in a narrative sense wouldn't change the nature of the game at all. It may be a small change, but it does at least sound like it's markedly different from the 8 standalone stories.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
Has anyone -- anyone? -- said that there's nothing in this game that ties the lore together? There are side quests based on NPCs from each character's story, and there are lots of lore hints in each story that have been brought up many times in this thread already.

The only argument I've been making, which is the same one I've been making for a week now, is that this is a game about eight different standalone stories, each with their own beginnings, middles, and ends. Opinions will certainly vary on the quality of these stories, but one thing is not subjective: They're all entirely standalone. Each character has their own relationships, their own goals, and most importantly, their own emotional arc that concludes with their Chapter 4. Some of these arcs are better than others, but they all have emotional conclusions. That's what this game is. That's what the stories are.

As more info comes out about potential postgame content (which I'm currently in the process of trying to unlock as we speak -- if only I could find this damn Lapis Lazuli), we'll see exactly what else is in here, but that doesn't change the nature of the game. I'm not sure how to make this any clearer.

I agree with you almost 100% on this, and I'm trying not to contribute to the pile-on in any way, and I commented earlier that reviewers shouldn't be forced to defend themselves for any reason at all. Reviewers were right to run reviews when they did, and they don't need to errata or asterisk reviews to note what ending they got or what side content they did. Your judgment and criticisms won't change no matter what gets revealed in the later content. Isolated main chapters are going to be a long-term criticism of the game.

But my speculation, based pretty much solely on the OST stuff, is that the 8 self-contained journeys are all there to paint in a different piece of the puzzle and how they relate what is probably the name of the last dungeon. Yes, people have actually been dismissing connections between the plots, even as far back as the Prologue Demo when there were obvious connections and overlaps. Yes, I think there is a unified endgame which people, including you, have adamantly been denying.

But I am not arguing with you about the stuff that most people here are. I am not part of the absolutely insane posse that has descended upon you. I'm mostly participating in side conversations here about how the late content fits into things, because I've been a #TeamTrueEnding truther from the moment I heard the final boss theme from the demo.
 

watdaeff4

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,451
This. I highly value ZhugeEX's posts on this site, especially his sales insights, but I'm not sure how he would know that.
Erm, that's absolutely untrue and I don't see why a banned member on NeoGAF would have any insight into that. Sorry but that's a lie.

This is the first I heard of this also - was soulflarz a mod on neogaf? after seeing this, i googled and there is a post by him during the exodus that "outed" CBOAT - maybe that is what people are referring to
 

jschreier

Press Sneak Fuck
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,083
OK, I'm in the dungeon. It's a
boss gauntlet where you re-fight all 8 final bosses. We'll see what happens after that.
 
Feb 5, 2018
2,939
OK, I'm in the dungeon. It's a
boss gauntlet where you re-fight all 8 final bosses. We'll see what happens after that.

Nice. Tell us what you think from a story perspective after! If it does anything for the story for you.


That's hilarious.

Cool, more repetitive and recycled content. Exactly the missing piece from the puzzle that we were waiting for!

Jumping to conclusions aren't we? He's not done with it.
 

Vicious17

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
2,293
Octopath Traveler is currently sitting on an 84 Metascore based on 33 reviews.

Do you guys understand how high that is for a relatively niche JRPG that's only out on a single console? Like, it feels like a lot of people here are only focusing on the single somewhat negative review, and not giving the game its due.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
Octopath Traveler is currently sitting on an 84 Metascore based on 33 reviews.

Do you guys understand how high that is for a relatively niche JRPG that's only out on a single console? Like, it feels like a lot of people here are only focusing on the single somewhat negative review, and not giving the game its due.
Are you saying niche games tend to score low? How popular the game is doesn't really matter.
 

Deleted member 4093

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,671
FWIW, I post heavily in review and preview threads for games I'm interested in, but almost never post in the OT other than to say "nice OT." I'm usually too busy playing the game I've been hyped about to bother in those threads, the threat of spoilers aside.

I don't think whatever trend you think you are seeing is nearly as concrete as you believe it is.

Fantastic reviews. Looks like I have some shopping to do tomorrow.
Like I said in that post you quoted its not exclusive
 

Rayman not Ray

Self-requested ban
Banned
Feb 27, 2018
1,486
The conversation around Octopath has finally made it clear to me that JRPG fans actually want pretty fundamentally different things out of their games. The contrast between Jason Schreier and Jeremy Parish makes one dimension of that particularly clear, where one is more interested in narrative and the other in systems (though that's obviously an oversimplification).

As usual it's all about thinking about where I sit on that spectrum. I think I'm 75% Parish, 25% Schreier, so I'll maybe pick the game up when it goes on sale.