You mean their "friend" they go out of their way to identify as "gay" (absolving them of any malice in intent) in order to "just ask questions"?
This horse shit is as tired as it gets.
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Why is Gamergate support still so prevalent in gaming communities?
- Thread starter Cranster
- Start date
This horse shit is as tired as it gets.
Based on what happened, I don't see how they had any other option.
Why Gamergate happened, as well as the dramatic and traumatic impact it had, has already been explained in detail here. The only thing I would think to add is that Gamergate became so influential and paved the way for the political alt-right because people continually failed to take it seriously.
In the early days of Gamergate, many outlets and communities were reluctant to acknowledge the controversy. It was a conversation Gamergaters started, so it was a dialog they controlled, and the disinformation they spread from the outset proliferated a false narrative that nobody was taking an interest to counter. No one, of course, except for the people they were harassing and targeting. Because they were people who struggled to find community or voices within the industry - namely women and minorities - many were resigned to the abuse and faced an uphill battle to even be acknowledged. Meanwhile, the industry and platform owners pretended it was a fringe movement that didn't matter for as long as possible. This allowed them to organize, recruit, and develop a platform. By the time people couldn't ignore them any longer, considerable damage had already been done. Thankfully for gaming, the Gamergate movement was renounced and condemned and ultimately diminished. But none of the people involved ever went away, nor did their ideas, and we should never act like they're gone. They're not.
Those who were familiar with Gamergate watched in horror as the same thing happened with the newly-branded alt-right. There are lessons to be learned here.
In the early days of Gamergate, many outlets and communities were reluctant to acknowledge the controversy. It was a conversation Gamergaters started, so it was a dialog they controlled, and the disinformation they spread from the outset proliferated a false narrative that nobody was taking an interest to counter. No one, of course, except for the people they were harassing and targeting. Because they were people who struggled to find community or voices within the industry - namely women and minorities - many were resigned to the abuse and faced an uphill battle to even be acknowledged. Meanwhile, the industry and platform owners pretended it was a fringe movement that didn't matter for as long as possible. This allowed them to organize, recruit, and develop a platform. By the time people couldn't ignore them any longer, considerable damage had already been done. Thankfully for gaming, the Gamergate movement was renounced and condemned and ultimately diminished. But none of the people involved ever went away, nor did their ideas, and we should never act like they're gone. They're not.
Those who were familiar with Gamergate watched in horror as the same thing happened with the newly-branded alt-right. There are lessons to be learned here.
I think totalbiscuits comments were stupid but I do think he was more of a useful idiot, I can see why people hate him because of the movement that used him and his stubbornness to admit a mistake (Something he never did or not without caveat).
TB really had beef with games journalism far before Gamergate. Mostly regarding review copies, double standards between games, pretty genuine stuff. He was very strongly against most games media and distrustful, when GG happened he saw it for what they were trying to pretend it was. About a girl allegedly sleeping for review scores. He hopped in the taxi without checking who the driver was. I don't think he was a hateful person, maybe I don't want to think he was. But I honestly believe he initially hopped on due to his previous campaign against games media. What he said was wrong, his stubbornness to admit it had become (or initially was) a hate movement and potentially look bad by doing so and leaving his engrained trench was wrong. It's a dark mark for many and deservedly so. I just think it needs to be said by someone that enjoyed his content and might know his opinions a bit better then most that he likely was a useful idiot.
Regardless of why he jumped on board, he remained on board for years after it was blatantly obvious. It only takes a quick google search, for example, to find him still towing the line in 2016 that GG was a result of ethical issues resulting from Zoe Quinn and Nathan Grayson's relationship, rather than it growing from Quinn's ex whipping up a mob against her.
Of course, this is the same guy who went after business rivals with claims that they were committing ethical violations, and then immediately backed off when they threatened to reveal that he was even guiltier of what he was accusing them. For somebody so concerned with ethics and honesty, he sure did run away with his tail between his legs the minute it was about to come out that he was as corrupt as the people he claimed he was fighting against.
As others in the thread have already stated, I can only presume that it's because video games have historically been a relatively homogeneous community populated by young men. Over time the technology has become more accepted by the mainstream, and the industry more accepting of a diverse audience with individuals with different social, ethnic, gender, and sexual orientations. In response to this, a loud contingent has decided that the only way to maintain their fiefdom is to explicitly harass, belittle, and alienate these people in the hopes that they can make the sphere an unattractive and toxic place for those they've decided "don't belong". Hopefully, their impact and relevance within the industry continues to lose ground and validity, but it seems like it's going to be a long term process tied to greater social and political issues.
I see what you mean but I think someone crosses the line from useful idiot to actively malicious when they claim that someone is making up death threats because they aren't dead yet. Not to mention how long he remained part of GG despite there being plenty of evidence out there showing exactly what the group was.
I mean, it morphed and melded into the zeitgeist of this incel and white supremacist shit we see everywhere. So it only got worse.
yah I was with him in that YouTube comment up until he said the media was only thing keeping women from gaming. I think I'll refrain from more comments until I can put aside my feelings from his death. I know he wasn't on the right side of that argument but feel weird talking about him in that manner post death
I think they've always been there, we just weren't aware of their existence. It's a community that's full of people calling others n-er like it's 'hello' in some obscure language that only assholes speak.
It shouldn't be weird.
For any good that he did, he did bad, too. Given people were actually hurt by his actions, we shouldn't shy away from discussing the darker side to his legacy.
Oh what the fuck. HiddenXperia is a dumb ass. Well that's an unsubscribe from me. Fucker.
Gamergate specifically I think is very smart about who they target. hey take advantage of misogynistic tendencies that exist in so many of us (indeed, most of us to some degree) to make the women they target look unsympathetic. Then the spun narratives take on a life of their own.
Edit: this is in comparison to other hate movements on the alt-right. Gamergate is much better about keeping the dog-whistles be just that, so that people who aren't in the know may side against the target. It's harder for alt-right attempts to demonize people to not be noticed for what they are immediately.
Edit: this is in comparison to other hate movements on the alt-right. Gamergate is much better about keeping the dog-whistles be just that, so that people who aren't in the know may side against the target. It's harder for alt-right attempts to demonize people to not be noticed for what they are immediately.
OP
OP
Even though your banned I may aswell respond...
It was never hijacked to begin with, GamerGate started due to false accusations and you continue to perpetuate it which leads to the harassment. In addition, you haven't made a counter-argument, automaticly you rushed to insults and made no valid counter-argument on my post about how GG started, instead your post could be summed up as simply dismisive with no actual facts to back it up, then you and HiddenXperia resorted to memes and insults. So no, you haven't changed, you attack anyone that disagrees with you, either because their opinion is difirent or do to facts outweighing your own opinions.
Your N word comment is an example of it, it may not be illegal in your country, but you sure come off as an arrogant asshole!
When your only argument for supporting GG is the false ethics in games journalism bulshit, then yeah, harrassing women is all you got.
And yet here you are, supporting GG, insulting and attacking others on Twitter as you refuse to accept facts that some of the stuff you keep sharing is simply immoral and factually wrong/incorrect.
While that may be the case how you guys were able to access it was simply illegal, in addition it was pretty obvious that Microsoft's next step to be taken would have been a C&D.
It was never hijacked to begin with, GamerGate started due to false accusations and you continue to perpetuate it which leads to the harassment. In addition, you haven't made a counter-argument, automaticly you rushed to insults and made no valid counter-argument on my post about how GG started, instead your post could be summed up as simply dismisive with no actual facts to back it up, then you and HiddenXperia resorted to memes and insults. So no, you haven't changed, you attack anyone that disagrees with you, either because their opinion is difirent or do to facts outweighing your own opinions.
Your N word comment is an example of it, it may not be illegal in your country, but you sure come off as an arrogant asshole!
I kinda feel like the mods do a good job of banning defenders here at least much more efficiently than the old place. That said man did my time without this place awaken me to the fact that Reddit and Twitter are cesspools filled with gamer gaters.
I honestly feel like Neogaf was way stricter. And I mean that in a good way for this site. There is atleast an ability to have conversation, which has helped challenge my views on certain topics both ways. There have been a few bans that seem borderline but after viewing their histories becomes somewhat clear that they are holding back from saying their full alt right opinion.
We don't want it to get to the stage where threads become complete circle jerks like on the old site. Their they had mods mass banning people and hiding the reasons, operating on their own accord and favouritism. Thankfully that mod is not a mod here nor are some of the ones that caused things to end up becoming incredibly one sided.
Reset Era is obviously one of the most if not the most leftist site for gaming discussion on a reasonable scale. And while people outside of this site think it's bad it's needed. I won't say reddit is alt right but many subreddits can quickly become quite toxic.
I think many here would say my stance on immigration and handling foreign affairs is on the more right side for this website when regarding politics. But the stuff on /Canada is disgusting.
I think the moderation team is doing a pretty decent job. Some bans I disagree with could be explained with post history
Because GamerGate is good at hiding its actions in other actions. You can target a person but the argument will be centered around their professionalism. In their minds, it's easy to target an infraction, blow it up, and watch peoppe argue over the legitmacy of that infraction even though theu won by getting her fired.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Promoting narratives associated with hate and harassment movements, account still in junior phase.
Gamergate is a dumpster fire and anyone still raising that flag must enjoy rolling around in trash, but this blog post by feminist thingsofthings did make me see Zoe Quinn in a different light:
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/zoe-quinn-is-an-abuser/
Sadly, I scrolled down while trying to find this article and saw that it was being shared on KotakuInAction. I'm sure that they're all fake pretending to care about emotional abuse.
https://thingofthings.wordpress.com/2014/11/17/zoe-quinn-is-an-abuser/
Sadly, I scrolled down while trying to find this article and saw that it was being shared on KotakuInAction. I'm sure that they're all fake pretending to care about emotional abuse.
The degree of the star wars vitriol to me was amazing
Like I couldn't pick a better reason why the fall of Luke in the movie sorry spoilers was even more pertinent to today
Despite how much he wanted to make good it actually happened to fail and seeing his frustration I think mirrors the frustration of any reasonable liberal and progressive and freedom loving person
Hamills generation actually fucked up despite the promises of the 1980s and 1990s and our upcoming generations are on the path to repeat that mistake unless something big changes for the better
Unfortunately the side dragging us back under into the past and reinforcing glass ceilings and economic warfare on the middle class and poor is winning and this mirrors lukes experience in star wars despite all the good he may have wanted it fell apart
Fuck justice Kennedy for writing citizens United that stupid fuck
KotakuInAction is the absolute worst. Some sort of "anti-SJW" subreddit or whatever. I get completely baffled at the leaps in logic by most of those people.
why are gamergate attitudes persisting? because conservatives and reactionaries play games too.
bigoted conspiracy theories are the bread and butter of conservative thought. it's exactly the same phenomenon you see on the political stage and it's why 4chan and voat loved trump so much. there are real problems with the way games are developed, funded, and covered by corporate media, the problem is that the root of all these issues are with capitalism. since right-wingers are constitutionally incapable of admitting that capitalism could be imperfect, they have to come up with other reasons to explain why things suck sometimes.
and as with trump, the reasons go to the bigoted roots of conservative thinking. women, lgbtq people, racial minorities, and gullible white sjws are pulling all of the strings in the background trying to destroy the good things in our lives.
bigoted conspiracy theories are the bread and butter of conservative thought. it's exactly the same phenomenon you see on the political stage and it's why 4chan and voat loved trump so much. there are real problems with the way games are developed, funded, and covered by corporate media, the problem is that the root of all these issues are with capitalism. since right-wingers are constitutionally incapable of admitting that capitalism could be imperfect, they have to come up with other reasons to explain why things suck sometimes.
and as with trump, the reasons go to the bigoted roots of conservative thinking. women, lgbtq people, racial minorities, and gullible white sjws are pulling all of the strings in the background trying to destroy the good things in our lives.
This is what I was driving at with my post earlier. They pick their targets carefully and find people who have made transgressions in the past so that it's harder to fight back against the gross misogyny that's at the core of their attack.
[QUOTE="sph3re, post: 10339465, member: 23525"]KotakuInAction is the absolute worst. Some sort of "anti-SJW" subreddit or whatever. I get completely baffled at the leaps in logic by most of those people.[/QUOTE]
There is a site way worst then KotakuInAction sub Reddit.Kiwi Farms.
There is a site way worst then KotakuInAction sub Reddit.Kiwi Farms.
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She was also one of Bain's best friends. Friendship and family often obfuscates things. Just look at the mental gymnastics people do in order not to condemn friends and family who support Trump in many threads here.
Why are you sharing anything that takes anything in the zoepost st face value
Because feminism teaches us to believe victims of emotional abuse? I'm not saying that what Gjoni did afterwards wasn't fucked up.
I don't think the industry ever properly reckoned with it tbh. Studios and outlets didn't take it nearly as seriously as they should have, which has allowed GGers to carve out a niche in the gaming community when they should've been swiftly and decisively rebuked.
Ah yes feminism teaches us to believe a guy who weaponized the internet to harass his ex
The simple fact that Era could be seen as "leftist" should give an indication about the roots of the rot.
Yes technically it's probably one of the most progressive forum there is.
But that's not what left-wing is supposed to be about.
We simply live in a world which swung so far into the right-wing (thanks politicians, mass-media, including video-games, etc), that being "pro-inclusive" is in turn seen as some hardcore North-Korean communist idea by a lot of people.
This world is messed up and no amount of band-aid will prevent such shit harrassment movements to thrive as long as we'll continue to charge full throttle into the wall, as people will seek answers for the messed state of the world. And unfortunately, history tells us that in such dire situations, the fascists will always answer the call and happily provide simple explanations to the masses.
I really wish that the Adopt-a-User thread still existed, because I really would like to create a thread just to talk about thingofthings's blog post. Because I understand why you guys think that I'm dismissing the harassment of Zoe Quinn even though that's not what I'm doing.
Gaming and Nerd Culture have a distinctly male slant, and we live in an era where (mostly white) men are seeing their status as the defacto consumer and voice challenged. The internet has lead to a radicalization of young men the likes of which we've never seen, and the anonymity it provides makes it the perfect medium to harass and shout down people you disagree with. Gamergate won't go away, because there is a steady stream of disgruntled young men always willing to shout down women and play the victim. It's a new form of discrimination and hate speech that has been building for years, and it's probably not going to go away any time soon.
I'll say, the issue isn't so much that you're dismissing it, but that blog post has it's own issue. Mostly that, as someone pointed out, it's taking the original Zoe post at face value. That post was made to kickstart a massive harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn, so forgive me if I don't think it's 100% factual, and that maybe his interpretation of the way she acted may be--or likely is--exaggerated.
What that blog post does, is take a malicious blog post, use it as justification to say Zoe Quinn (who herself was a victim) was in fact an abuser, and then try and distance themselves from the entire situation. It's very passive apologism. Saying that what happened was bad, but was Zoe Quinn really innocent? It's sowing doubt to further shame a victim by implying that maybe she deserved this kind of treatment and was lying about things all along. It's this kind of writing that thrives as propaganda.
I'll say, the issue isn't so much that you're dismissing it, but that blog post has it's own issue. Mostly that, as someone pointed out, it's taking the original Zoe post at face value. That post was made to kickstart a massive harassment campaign against Zoe Quinn, so forgive me if I don't think it's 100% factual, and that maybe his interpretation of the way she acted may be--or likely is--exaggerated.
What that blog post does, is take a malicious blog post, use it as justification to say Zoe Quinn (who herself was a victim) was in fact an abuser, and then try and distance themselves from the entire situation. It's very passive apologism. Saying that what happened was bad, but was Zoe Quinn really innocent? It's sowing doubt to further shame a victim by implying that maybe she deserved this kind of treatment and was lying about things all along. It's this kind of writing that thrives as propaganda.
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If this site is the most left there is, then gaming culture is heavily right-winged, if not far-right. At best, the site appears center-left/liberal.
Also, it's not good to keep allowing shitty posters to continue their bad faith arguments. There is a reason why people would get warned or banned elsewhere, because the discussion is meaningless when you have the same posters over and over again asking questions or concern trolling. They use the cover of polite discussion to advocate horrible ideas and say some veiled racist/sexist shit, then bait minority posters to lash out, who then proceeds to get banned by mods for being impolite and uncivil. And thus women and people of color here get the signal that this is not a community for them, since they are punished for existing.
So no, loose rules and more acceptance of bad faith posters who continuously stir up shit is not a good thing and harms the minority groups who post on this forum.
You want to make a thread about a post from 2014? Are you serious? We have people engaging in actual harassment right now in just about every form of media and you want to talk about Zoe Quinn not being nice?
I'm pretty sure she's not a perfect person by any stretch much like the rest of us dumbass humans but god years later was this torrent of absolute bullshit created by idiots worth it at all? At some point you have to step back and realize that if it wasn't Quinn it would have been someone else they launched this off of and nobody involved deserved the harassment, the death threats, and the insane scrutiny of every single thing they did from that moment onward in the attempt to find something new to start more shit about.
Nothing has ever made consider less of a population than GeriatricGerbil movement.
The whole thing was visibly BS from the start based on a shitty ex who decided that unleashing the internet on his former girlfriend was a good idea.
To see in real time the gaming community try to tear women a new one based on this was the most onion thing I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing.
There was never anything to the grievance but willful misunderstanding on the part of harassers that took the smallest slight and turned that as the equivalent of a war declaration.
I already knew that the gaming community was far more conservative than it claimed to be but this was embracing stupidity on a new level.
The worst part was that despite their meeting place being fairly public and being able to see everything they said between themselves, idiots kept claiming that the poorest cover was really what it was about and not the clear harassment of women in the gaming sphere.
After years of the gaming community fighting against its shit image it got from opportunistic politicians like Jack Thompson, turns out the community is really as bad and worse than they claimed.
And before anyone @me for generalizing on the community, I was there and oldgaf/era and waypoint were probably the only place that weren't infected by the virus that kill braincells that was GG.
And seriously Zoe Quinn could have shot at pointblank the shitty ex's dog for all I care, I still would never trust anything that guy ever said or did based on his words alone.
The whole thing was visibly BS from the start based on a shitty ex who decided that unleashing the internet on his former girlfriend was a good idea.
To see in real time the gaming community try to tear women a new one based on this was the most onion thing I've ever had the displeasure of witnessing.
There was never anything to the grievance but willful misunderstanding on the part of harassers that took the smallest slight and turned that as the equivalent of a war declaration.
I already knew that the gaming community was far more conservative than it claimed to be but this was embracing stupidity on a new level.
The worst part was that despite their meeting place being fairly public and being able to see everything they said between themselves, idiots kept claiming that the poorest cover was really what it was about and not the clear harassment of women in the gaming sphere.
After years of the gaming community fighting against its shit image it got from opportunistic politicians like Jack Thompson, turns out the community is really as bad and worse than they claimed.
And before anyone @me for generalizing on the community, I was there and oldgaf/era and waypoint were probably the only place that weren't infected by the virus that kill braincells that was GG.
And seriously Zoe Quinn could have shot at pointblank the shitty ex's dog for all I care, I still would never trust anything that guy ever said or did based on his words alone.
There is nothing to discuss about the zoepost, it's a personal story between 2 private individuals.
Unless you know personally one of the people involved you have no business trying to get who did what.
Should we publicly discuss your parent's relationship in details for you to understand why and how taking anything from that post is without value?
The irony is that geek culture started against the boys club.
I am old enough to remember how japanim, computing, b-movies, comics and videogames were a mark of weirdness.
At this time we were all dreaming about girls sharing our interests.
And now it's a worlwilde popular culture, some wants to keep it as a club for boys. Yep, what an irony.
I am old enough to remember how japanim, computing, b-movies, comics and videogames were a mark of weirdness.
At this time we were all dreaming about girls sharing our interests.
And now it's a worlwilde popular culture, some wants to keep it as a club for boys. Yep, what an irony.
relationships are complicated. minding your business is simple and free.
Fixed.
I don't give a shit, fuck him and the harm he caused.
Reading this post, it's like a time machine.
"GG is crap, guys! But Zoe kind of had it coming amiright?"
Thanks a lot for the explanation. I actually had no idea what Gamergate is.