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Vena

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,379
… guess there isn't any, sometimes. (Note this isn't the first time this has happened around Nintendo consoles.)

ReSwitched, the main brunt of the Switch hacking scene, has had a major falling out with one of its key members. This member was responsible for the discovery of and reporting of the now well known hardware exploit of the Switch, and that has recently been patched out of new hardware.

Turns out, apparently, there was another very tightly guarded secret boot flaw courtesy of nVidia and their wonderfully talented security department in the boot. This was not discovered by said member just discussed but, instead, stolen and submitted for profit to a White Hat bug bounty for up to 200,000$.

e11.jpg

lol.png


This is obviously theft of the work of someone else, and has resulted in this member's termination from ReSwitched:


Suffice it to say, this is a rather sad thing to see happen in a community regardless on what you may feel about hacking. But the Switch scene has been a pit of toxicity at its periphery for some time (not helped by its fast progress), and this is probably the most toxic event yet (followed closely by TX and stolen code, but they were never respected to begin with).

This isn't, however, the first time code has been stolen from the community. The piracy malware dongle TX OS has been found to use almost all stolen code from the community with no acknowledgments sold for a profit, in fact the only part of its code not stolen is the kernel sigcheck patching. Everything is copy and pasted wholesale from the in-development work from the Switchbrew/ReSwitched devs and their code on github.

This raises some new questions as well. I just made a thread about how the well known exploit in the Tegra had been patched out and that units were starting to make the rounds at retail (https://www.resetera.com/threads/bootrom-patched-switches-appear-at-retail.54531/) in Japan and Asia yesterday but even in NA as of today. This news appears to arrive right on the heels of the arrival of new units.

Did nVidia have a second hardware flaw in the Tegra? Honestly, given just how incompetent they've been proven to be by Switch hackers, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised. From GPU driver flaws to the boot, almost every single flaw in the Switch that has been exploited has been due to nVidia. So yet another hardware flaw wouldn't even surprise me at this point. Its just a meme now.

More importantly, did that flaw also get quietly fixed without warning? Maybe... I see smoke, and there's a right fire going on in ReSwitched. It all but guarantees that the secret-not-so-secret Mariko Switch will be patched if there was yet another flaw, but so too will all Switches in time see yet another iPatch if this did not fix the problem, and we now know they respond fairly quickly.

(Of note, its possible that whatever was stolen had nothing to do with the Switch but I am doubtful. It doesn't show up in nVidia's logs yet nor in HackerOne for Nintendo (nor does Nintendo pay out 200k$), though some curious names have switched teams: https://hackerone.com/nintendo/thanks/2018. These weren't there a few weeks ago, so expect a major patch soon, by the way!)
 
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Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
$200k is a hell of a lot of money when neither company pays out that much. It must have been something very big.
 

Umibozu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
414
$200k seems like a big payout.
I remember when Nintendo would offer up to a limit of $50k for submitted bug reports.

Must've been something really damaging. Wonder if word will ever get out on what the flaw/bug was.
 

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Suffice it to say, this is a rather sad thing to see happen in a community regardless on what you may feel about hacking.
Speak for yourself. It sounds more like expected thing to happen.Do you think hackers do what they do in the hopes that nintendo will fix everything and make a better system, or because they just can and in doing so, a lot of people will praise them for being so smart?

I will not say that i don't use hacks, or intend to use. But would i trust any hacker? Never. And even one day i think about making a hack myself, but if i did, would i expect credit and someone defending my "doings"(work is not the word i would use)? Absolutely not.

I cant go in a gray area and expect to meet high moral values there.
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
User Warned: Derailing thread about Homebrew with accusations of piracy
So ironic to see this happens considering that, you know, they're also thieves of the work of someone else.
 

JazzmanZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,365
So yet another hardware flaw wouldn't even surprise me at this point. Its just a meme now.

Repeated problems don't constitute a 'meme'

It's like saying a poorly built car that has constant problems is a meme, or a coin that always lands head side up is a meme.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
I'm not well versed in the scene here, but if I'm understanding this right - hacker finds exploit, chooses not to submit it, shares it with other hackers instead, and one of them submits it?

What's the problem, exactly?

If the original hacker wanted the $200k, why didn't they submit it? If they wanted it to remain unpatched, why would they share it?

So ironic to see this happens considering that, you know, they're also thieves of the work of someone else.
Give me proof the original finder pirated anything.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
ReSwitched, the main brunt of the Switch hacking scene, has had a major falling out with one of its key members. This member was responsible for the discovery of and reporting of the now well known hardware exploit of the Switch, and that has recently been patched out of new hardware.
I thought that they couldn't patch out current exploits, only make new hardware that's not vulnerable?
 

Deleted member 5535

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,656
What work did they steal?

I'm not well versed in the scene here, but if I'm understanding this right - hacker finds exploit, chooses not to submit it, shares it with other hackers instead, and one of them submits it?

What's the problem, exactly?

If the original hacker wanted the $200k, why didn't they submit it? If they wanted it to remain unpatched, why would they share it?


Give me proof the original finder pirated anything.

The fact that the possibility of piracy was discovered and the entire process after it tells exactly what I'm saying.
 
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Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,899
Gross, good to see they kicked her out. Is there any possibility the bounty could be rescinded or was it already paid out?

When I saw the title, I expected it to be about this Splatoon 2 player who hacked the Rank X leaderboard today to ask Nintendo to add an anti-cheat protocol
r7s4d4ka6k911.jpg


This will be my statement, I guess:

I hereby claim responsibility for the recent incident on the Rank X leader board.

Proof

Splatoon 2 is a game that I love so very deeply. Despite having its connectivity issues, I think it provides a healthy and competitive environment for all players; it advocates strategy and a strong sense of team work. It is because of this, everyone enjoys Splatoon, and enjoys the fun of fighting for a rank or a league position.

However, this will not be true as long as there are cheaters lurking around.

I've never personally played the first Splatoon, but I heard how bad it was, being overrun by cheaters who tamper with the game and impose unfair advantages on others. I, at first, was relieved that the Switch had a decently strong system security. Perhaps that's what the development team thought as well. Yet it doesn't justify removing all the security measures from the first game, and leave the game and its players completely defenseless to ill-purposed griefers who mod their game to victory. I figured that someone needs to deliver a message to Nintendo.

And a loud one.

Nintendo, you're welcome to ban my console any time. My purpose was to call attention to the current issue that plagues the game, and I've done that. But my message is, please make protecting your players the top priority.

Please add anti-cheat.

---

Quick edit:

It seems that many people got the wrong idea that I abused some hacks like the ones I'm accusing of to get on the leader board. I would never do that. It lacks certain... elegance. Not to mention that I serve to protect players, not harm them. What I did was that I simply edited my X Power. The short game in my screenshot, in fact, was just a lucky push.
https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/8yc8lq/cmon_nintendo/
 

Smash Kirby

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 7, 2017
4,066
Since the hack wasn't submitted to NVidia before her submitting it to them, I don't see an issue with it. I understand people want to homebrew, but at this point it seems more of make the switch into the console you want, not the console Nintendo sold you. The switch hasn't even been out for 18 months and people are wanting to turn their switch into a portable ROM playing machine, nevermind the fact the ROMs probably aren't acquired through backups of physical carts, there is a push to encourage piracy with the switch as well.
 

Maxina

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,308
Good...good, let them destroy each other. I would have done the same, all is fair in love and war.
 

Namyu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,562
"TX is bad, they stole our code, sold it and didn't source it!"

As one of the devs proceeds to steal a discovery made by another member of the team and report it for a bounty without their permission, lmao
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332
They were working as part of the same team hence they share work with each other. They were never going to submit it but one of the team saw the $$$ and stabbed the others in the back.
Oh, it was Kate.

No, she just actually gives more of a shit that the Tegra is used across the industry in products like self-driving cars and the implications of that more than she does about homebrew on a game console. Deciding not to report this was absolutely the wrong decision - though she could've given some sort of 'report this or I will' ultimatum, I suppose.
The fact that the possibility of piracy discovered and the entire process after it tells exactly what I'm saying.
giphy.gif
 

Zomba13

#1 Waluigi Fan! Current Status: Crying
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,901
The fact that the possibility of piracy discovered and the entire process after it tells exactly what I'm saying.
Your code being modified by others for piracy doesn't mean you've stolen anything. And I'm pretty sure one of the members or reswitched who found the initial bug (not the one discussed in this topic) did in fact submit it to Nvidia.

Calling the reswitched devs thieves implies they stole something, which to my knowledge they haven't (though Team Xecutor (or whatever) did steal their code to sell in their piracy dongles).
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
No, she just actually gives more of a shit that the Tegra is used across the industry in products like self-driving cars and the implications of that more than she does about homebrew on a game console. Deciding not to report this was absolutely the wrong decision - though she could've given some sort of 'report this or I will' ultimatum, I suppose.

It seems she was fine with taking the money though so I wouldn't really believe it was to protect people from having their cars hacked...We don't even know 100% either way that this is a Tegra-wide issue, only affects Tegra X1 chips or Switch's X1's only. Hell we don't even know 100% that it was for the Switch in the first place as they do work on other things.
 

TripaSeca

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,762
São Paulo
Wow!

In hacker circles that's a stink that will never come out.
Highly unethical of her, especially considering that ReSwitched were (are) the "ethical hackers", with a very strict anti-piracy stance and also a very business-friendly disclosure process.
Kate herself held on to her exploit for a 3 month grace period to give NVidia proper time to 'prepare'
So this is a bombshell!
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,017
The drama in the hacking and homebrew scene is always terrible. It destroyed the PSP and Vita scenes.
 

Toad King

Member
Oct 27, 2017
940
Chicago
Wow!

In hacker circles that's a stink that will never come out.
Highly unethical of her, especially considering that ReSwitched were (are) the "ethical hackers", with a very strict anti-piracy stance and also a very business-friendly disclosure process.
Kate herself held on to her exploit for a 3 month grace period to give NVidia proper time to 'prepare'
So this is a bombshell!
At the end of the day, you are still breaking DMCA. While many people see no issue with that (myself included) you are still breaking the law and can be prosecuted for it. Just ask geohot.

She may have been upset about the piracy and did this in a last effort to screw pirates over. Maybe she just wanted the money. At the end of the day though, the winner this time is Nintendo. Their bug bounty just potentially kept another exploit out of the hands of pirates. The homebrew people can release it now but Nintendo can now get a fix in place. Even if it requires yet another change in the factory line, they can still get them into units before the holiday season if they act fast.
 

L.O.R.D

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,684
According to a 4Chan post that was removed recently, there is some interesting information:

Bogdanoff:
>My call came back
>K stole the code for an exploit too.
>Luckily K forgot to change a comment in one of the files that credits the original author.
>Nintendo saw this since K sent the files alongside an explanation.
>They contacted the original author and "someone" told everyone else

Welp, so she won't get anything it seems.
 
OP
OP
Vena

Vena

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,379
Really the big winner here is Nintendo.

At the end of the day, you are still breaking DMCA. While many people see no issue with that (myself included) you are still breaking the law and can be prosecuted for it. Just ask geohot.

She may have been upset about the piracy and did this in a last effort to screw pirates over. Maybe she just wanted the money. At the end of the day though, the winner this time is Nintendo. Their bug bounty just potentially kept another exploit out of the hands of pirates. The homebrew people can release it now but Nintendo can now get a fix in place. Even if it requires yet another change in the factory line, they can still get them into units before the holiday season if they act fast.

They turned around the first patch in about 3-6 months from disclosure to retail turn-over. That's super fast.
 

JershJopstin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,332

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
Gross, good to see they kicked her out. Is there any possibility the bounty could be rescinded or was it already paid out?

When I saw the title, I expected it to be about this Splatoon 2 player who hacked the Rank X leaderboard today to ask Nintendo to add an anti-cheat protocol
r7s4d4ka6k911.jpg



https://www.reddit.com/r/splatoon/comments/8yc8lq/cmon_nintendo/

That guys is an idiot lol. The only thing he will receive from ninty there is a swift ban on his system lol.
 

McNum

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,184
Denmark
I can't say I have many sympathies here. If you know a big exploit and hold on to it, you don't get to complain if someone else turned it in for a bounty. You had your chance and chose not to. For critical bugs, it's first come, first served. No matter who found it, Nintendo are the only ones who really need to know. Or Nvidia if it's their stuff that broke again.

So this is all good news to me. Because it's not just Nintendo winning here. It's also the majority of Switch owners who just want to play games on it and not worry about hackers and cheaters online.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,899
That guys is an idiot lol. The only thing he will receive from ninty there is a swift ban on his system lol.
Yeah that's definitely going to happen, at least he's already prepared to buy another switch

Why would Nintendo do that? Seems to me that this is something they'd WANT to happen.
If you can pay someone who didn't originally make the discovery then it might discourage individuals from investigating exploits and would definitely discourage groups from pursuing bounties together since it would show that your friends could take it from under you.
 
OP
OP
Vena

Vena

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,379
Yeah that's definitely going to happen, at least he's already prepared to buy another switch


If you can pay someone who didn't originally make the discovery then it might discourage individuals from investigating exploits and would definitely discourage groups from pursuing bounties together since it would show that your friends could take it from under you.

Infighting as a consequence also helps Nintendo. It creates schisms in the scene (as is happening now) and slows progress while they quietly fix the issues.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,899
Infighting as a consequence also helps Nintendo. It creates schisms in the scene (as is happening now) and slows progress while they quietly fix the issues.
That's a good point. I suppose they have to weigh the benefits of paying for bug bounties for major security flaws and implicitly encouraging hacking that could support piracy and other abusive hacks. It must be a tough balance
 

Burning Justice

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
500
Yeah that's definitely going to happen, at least he's already prepared to buy another switch


If you can pay someone who didn't originally make the discovery then it might discourage individuals from investigating exploits and would definitely discourage groups from pursuing bounties together since it would show that your friends could take it from under you.

If no one bothers to find any exploits, then Nintendo wins. If it creates in-fighting among hackers, then Nintendo wins.

It's pretty clear in this case that the person who discovered the exploit had no intention of reporting it. I'm not saying it's a good thing this happened, but if I were in charge of Nintendo's bounty program, I'd reward the person who reported it, not the person who originally discovered it.
 
OP
OP
Vena

Vena

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,379
That's a good point. I suppose they have to weigh the benefits of paying for bug bounties for major security flaws and implicitly encouraging hacking that could support piracy and other abusive hacks. It must be a tough balance

By all indication, this was the BIG SECRET and now its gone, only a few months after the first hardware flaw was already lost. Thats a BIG loss to the scene, huge probably. The first one got blown up by the piracy group forcing f0f's hand (as it'd have been figured out anyway once the piracy dongle came out), and now this one.

Now rather than saving it for when there's 80+ million Switches, you... gain another 1-2million Switches (after the first fix) before its patched out, and its a non-starter for Mariko completely, ruining upgrade prospects and potentially trapping the scene.
 

casiopao

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,044
Yeah that's definitely going to happen, at least he's already prepared to buy another switch


If you can pay someone who didn't originally make the discovery then it might discourage individuals from investigating exploits and would definitely discourage groups from pursuing bounties together since it would show that your friends could take it from under you.

Always confused on these hackers lol. They have that much money burn to keep buying these switch?
300 bucks is not cheap lol.
 

Ninjadom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,191
London, UK
All this is very fascinating to me. Also the first time I've seen Nintendo's Hacker One Page. Do the Japanese have a Nintendo hacking scene?
 
OP
OP
Vena

Vena

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,379
Ya things seem to be changing rapidly from the original presentation of the details.