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Has Hollow Knight dethroned Super Metroid/SotN in the public eye?
- Thread starter Deleted member 2834
- Start date
After about 4~5 hours in Hollow Knight, I think it has the potential to reach the top Metroidvanias for me, though I think both Super Metroid and SotN were already surpassed by games in their series anyway. I think my favorite Metroidvania so far is Dawn of Sorrow.
Anyway, I'm still worried that 30 hours might be too much for the genre, but we'll see. After playing Samus Returns (which I liked) I appreciate how good the bosses are in Hollow Knight. Not only they look adorable, but are also super fun to beat. I died almost 10 times to a girl with a spear, but it was never frustrating because the controls are so tight that I always knew I could beat her in the next try. I think good combat and tight controls is what HK does best.
One aspect I don't think Hollow Knight will be able to top Castlevania or Metroid is the soundtrack. It's not bad, but it doesn't come close to those.
Anyway, I'm still worried that 30 hours might be too much for the genre, but we'll see. After playing Samus Returns (which I liked) I appreciate how good the bosses are in Hollow Knight. Not only they look adorable, but are also super fun to beat. I died almost 10 times to a girl with a spear, but it was never frustrating because the controls are so tight that I always knew I could beat her in the next try. I think good combat and tight controls is what HK does best.
One aspect I don't think Hollow Knight will be able to top Castlevania or Metroid is the soundtrack. It's not bad, but it doesn't come close to those.
We remember SotN as easier because it's such an old and popular game. Back in the day people got stuck in exploration and some bosses as well. HK is a bit more technical in the boss fights, but traversal is much easier.
I don't know that I would expect it to dethrone at least Super Metroid. That game has staying power and is constantly on people's minds due to
1. The comparisons and inspirations drawn between it and some modern games, and
2. GDQ
1. The comparisons and inspirations drawn between it and some modern games, and
2. GDQ
I don't know that it's possible for a game in that genre to gain the same mind share these days. The amount of games available is exponentially larger than that time. Games that don't explode in popularity are basically invisible to the vast majority of people now.
Btw. team Cherry did play some of the Souls games, though apparently not that much:
Team Cherry said:
That was my first thought as well... I'm 90% sure I had to kill my previous self as a zombie to get my gear back.
Not even close me and my mates love merroidvanias and while Hollow knight is a great game none of us place it above those two games, especially SoTN.
I really enjoyed my time with Hollow Knight. It has all those epiphany moments you expect from a "metroidvania" along with a great soundtrack and atmosphere... but these elements are just not as good or fresh as that were in Super Metroid. The cutesy artstyle is serviceable but not ideal for me; the environment in Super Metroid feels much more bleak and oppressive and the enemies more menacing. And the soundtrack is second to none. Hollow Knight is definitely runner up for me though.
HK is great, but it's no SotN for me. I like the difficulty curve and bosses in HK more than SotN's, but the latter just has such beautifully rendered and diverse areas as well as fantastic overall atmosphere. As impressive as they were, HK's areas were too samey and monotone for my liking.
Personally Super Metroid and Ori are both at the top of the pile, I honestly couldn't pick one over the other and I think they are different enough games that its not a like for like situation anyway. SotN is third and Axiom Verge, HK etc are all nipping at their heels. My fondness for Ori may fade in time especially if the sequel is better in pretty much every way but I don't think anything will dethrone SM for me.
Lol I know. It is my gaming shame:/
Stop hyping me! I need these games on Switch ASAP :D
I'm now 8 hours in to HK and I'm not convinced that the game will surpass SM/SotN.
HK's art is excellent but I prefer the pixel art of Metroid/Castlevania, and in particular I love the hostile alien world atmosphere of Super Metroid. HK's combat is superior to Metroid and likely superior to any Castlevania (too early to say). HK's exploration and world design are very good and some of the best in the genre, but are much weaker than either SM or Metroidvania Castlevanias. I play mostly in handheld mode with low sound, so I can comment on sound.
For me, the most important element of a Metroidvania is the world design and exploration. For that reason alone I don't think HK will surpass these other classics. It does have excellent controls and fun traversal mechanics that help, but there's just not enough interesting things in the world (so far).
I would say HK is one of the best Metroidvanias to date, though. Even if it isn't the best, it's still better than almost every other Metroidvania I've ever played.
HK's art is excellent but I prefer the pixel art of Metroid/Castlevania, and in particular I love the hostile alien world atmosphere of Super Metroid. HK's combat is superior to Metroid and likely superior to any Castlevania (too early to say). HK's exploration and world design are very good and some of the best in the genre, but are much weaker than either SM or Metroidvania Castlevanias. I play mostly in handheld mode with low sound, so I can comment on sound.
For me, the most important element of a Metroidvania is the world design and exploration. For that reason alone I don't think HK will surpass these other classics. It does have excellent controls and fun traversal mechanics that help, but there's just not enough interesting things in the world (so far).
I would say HK is one of the best Metroidvanias to date, though. Even if it isn't the best, it's still better than almost every other Metroidvania I've ever played.
Yeah, to be honest, after finishing Hollow Knight, I have been wanting to play Super Metroid again, but I want to play it on the Switch.
I will wait until September (release date for the paid online service) and see if they offer Super Metroid for sale or something.
I think DoS > AoS > SotN
Super Metroid is kind of a different feel than Vania. Hollow Knight feels more like Vania than Metroid.
Don't forget about Ori though. I think until Hollow Knight it was the best Metroidvania of the decade. They are neck and neck.
Super Metroid is kind of a different feel than Vania. Hollow Knight feels more like Vania than Metroid.
Don't forget about Ori though. I think until Hollow Knight it was the best Metroidvania of the decade. They are neck and neck.
While HK is a very entertaining game, it has too many things holding it back in my opinion. Especially in the last 10 hours or so it was very repetitive and tedious for me. Traversing the world once you explored it is not very fun.
SotN on the other hand is just fantastic.
SotN on the other hand is just fantastic.
I don't think SotN and SM have bosses as handsome as this man:
And that's not even his final form!
And that's not even his final form!
It's been a while since I played early game, but I do recall Greenpath being second, indeed. I'm pretty sure you get an essential traversal item there too (I think the air dash). You won't get far without that item.
Greenpath is lush and beautiful, too, and should immediately dispell the idea that it's all dark gloomy caves.
Whaaaaat? No way. SotN is a brain-dead easy game. Super Metroid isn't that hard either. Hollow Knight is significantly more difficult, even without counting the optional side-content, and if you count those... then LOL.
Hell, HK's optional content is so brutal that I'm actually considering giving up on some of it (I cleared the White Palace, but I can't see myself ever beating Nightmare King Grimm or the Trial of the Fool).
Yes. Thank you both. HK is harder than any Souls games, tbh.
I stand corrected. (Yet watch as no one will say that HK is a "Zombie U-like"... ;))
I need to play more, but for me it's not close to those. It's not nostalgia either as I have an ongoing Super Metroid playthrough on my SNES classic currently.
For me the difficulty off Hollow Knight, the soulsborne like money system etc. just add an air of frustration I don't like and I'm not enjoying the combat as much as SM or SOTN. Beautiful game though.
For me the difficulty off Hollow Knight, the soulsborne like money system etc. just add an air of frustration I don't like and I'm not enjoying the combat as much as SM or SOTN. Beautiful game though.
Super Metroid and SOTN are notable for codifying a subgenre of action-adventure games. Hollow Knight is a great game in said subgenre, but the only way I see it getting a similar level of popular acclaim is by achieving blockbuster success. Dark Souls, Metroid Prime, and Arkham Asylum are good examples of past games clearing that bar, but they're all innovative 3D games.
It most certainly is and for me that's been one of its downfalls I have to say.
Either way, I've played a lot of Metroidvanias and there's no way any of them have come close to HK's 'Souls Marketing Meme' difficulty.
PS: If La Mulana is considered a Metroidvania, I haven't played that but I keep reading it's absurdly hard.
Super Metroid is still king, both in influence and in game design. It's much shorter than hollow knight but its design is just perfection. Symphony of the night is more influential than hollow knight, but Hollow knight is a superior game without a doubt in my eyes.
Hollow knight is the best game I've played this year, and the second best I've played on switch (after BoTW). Truly a remarkable game. One that absolutely nails that feeling of isolation with impending terror around every corner, mixed with the thrill of exploration. Not to mention the god tier boss fights.
Hollow knight is the best game I've played this year, and the second best I've played on switch (after BoTW). Truly a remarkable game. One that absolutely nails that feeling of isolation with impending terror around every corner, mixed with the thrill of exploration. Not to mention the god tier boss fights.
Not really, i played it back in 2000 and 100% everything with no guide. It's a beautiful game from an artstyle and music perspective, but it's extremely easy.
Really? What's the consensus on Axiom Verge, I haven't gotten to play it yet...
Haha, I exactly said this to my buddy yesterday.
2017 was the best year since atleast 2001!
I find that really hard to believe when the story is almost a rip off from Dark Souls. I wouldn't even call it inspired because some of the story elements are ripped straight off from Dark Souls (4 knights, the king, the infection - going hollow, the light - the fire etc.). Even some NPCs are exactly the same (Myla is the exact same character as Lucatiel). If you compare the lore and story to Dark Souls it's almost the same thing.
It was this
Using "dark soul" and "berserk" in the same sentence seemed way too specific and on the nose to be a coincidence, haha.
But yeah I guess the other similarities could stem simply from the same inspirations. It's pretty curious and neat if so, I regard Souls games pretty hardly so to see such a small team make similar design decisions and pull them off so flawlessly without being inspired by them is awesome.
this game was so good, but it was barely in the Top 10 talks because that's how fucking good 2017 was. Even a game like Hollow Knight struggled against the masterpieces we saw that year
"Has a game that's not even a year and a half old dethroned 10/10 entries in decades long series that define their genres?"
The answer is no, OP, and you look silly even asking it.
The answer is no, OP, and you look silly even asking it.
I played the game when it was released on pc, and i admit it it's almost up there with SM and SOTN, but the lack of customization kills me, I mean, I know there as some kind of "medals" that gives you powers like, shields, increase health, etc...but through the entire game you are using the same weapon, the same appearance ( no new armor) and to me that's felt like i wasn't progressing at all... when i play SM or SOTN, i level up , get new weapons, new armor or capes, my character changes through the game...i don't know it's a completely different experience.
Hollow Knight is a great, great game (playing through it now) but it will not change the face of gaming like Super Metroid or SotN did. So...
If I remember correctly, those messages were written by Kickstarter backers as a reward.
Aaah, that area makes far more sense now, thanks for clarifying.
I mean ideally newer entries in a genre that are also 10/10s and considered better than the old classics could be recognized as superior, right?
I prefer Super Metroid myself but that has nothing to do with its age or status as a genre defining game. It's just good.
It was this
Using "dark soul" and "berserk" in the same sentence seemed way too specific and on the nose to be a coincidence, haha.
But yeah I guess the other similarities could stem simply from the same inspirations. It's pretty curious and neat if so, I regard Souls games pretty hardly so to see such a small team make similar design decisions and pull them off so flawlessly without being inspired by them is awesome.
I don't know for sure but I thought those ghosts' designs and their dialogue were Kickstarter backers rewards. Meaning certain backers got to design those ghosts and write the dialogue, so it wasn't Team Cherry who wrote that joke.
Edit: whoops hours late
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This is the best game in the genre for me. Great boss fights, fantastic level design, a huge amount of unique enemies, and very tight gameplay. I loved how some of the charms had unique synergy when paired together. The story and lore for the game was also very interesting and had a lot of thought behind it.
SOTN and Super Metroid were also fortunate in the sense there was less competition and players spent more time in single player games, that were less in number, especially for that genre. But currently Metroivania genre is filled and new games arrive every few months. It will be much harder for HK to maintain its hype and popularity to the same degree.
Hollow Knight is brutally hard to complete, which means I'm not very likely to want to go back and replay it. I usually do replays of SM and SOTN every few years, but I'm not sure this is one I'll really want to dig back into. It is a fantastic and rewarding game, but those are the kings for me.
I also think it's severely lacking in soundtrack compared to both. It's very atmospheric, but it's not particularly enjoyable to listen to.
I also think it's severely lacking in soundtrack compared to both. It's very atmospheric, but it's not particularly enjoyable to listen to.
Tried giving this another shot since I really disliked the first one. I'll say I dislike the actual gameplay less (well, the controls at least) but man this in no way touches SotN for me and I honestly don't see how it does for others, even not counting nostalgia. I know opinions and etc. and I'm really early in the game but even the early parts feel totally bland comparatively. The first couple of hours of Hollow Knight are pretty straightforward with a handful of enemies and a couple of area changes but overall the look and experience seems the same. Compare that with the SotN Richter intro, the noise those Wolf enemies make when you kill them, Death stealing all your weapons, getting a bunch of new equipment, the different areas and music.......DAMN.
Anyway again opinions etc. but I can't see this getting anywhere near SotN for me. I will say I still think the art style is mostly ugly but the character designs are ok. Overall aesthetic and area look though I still dislike.
Anyway again opinions etc. but I can't see this getting anywhere near SotN for me. I will say I still think the art style is mostly ugly but the character designs are ok. Overall aesthetic and area look though I still dislike.
Cross-posting from the OT.
I don't think HK beats SM. HK has too many small flaws and drawbacks:
- Lack of direction/story. It's never clear what the ultimate goal or destination are. There isn't enough landmarks that make an impression on you. No visual elements to tell you you'll need to return there.
- The power-ups have been done to death and are not very exciting nor fun to use. They are also too few and far between.
- Unfair difficulty spikes. You're never quite sure if you are at the correct strength level to tackle an area or a boss.
- Your power progression is very slow. You never feel like a badass.
- Poorly placed checkpoints. At least before each boss there should be a save point.
- The map upgrades (Quill, pins...) should have been standard features from the start. I bought all of them as soon as possible anyway.
- The map icons are not clear. Too many useless NPCs. Difficult to keep track of where the useful characters are as a result.
- Retrieving your soul when you die is a bad gameplay mechanic, a waste of time and doesn't bring anything of value except more stress. You are punished twice from dying.
Being and controlling Samus is just more cool and empowering overall.
HK is the first game in a long time matching the atmosphere of SM though, and that's no small feat.
I don't think HK beats SM. HK has too many small flaws and drawbacks:
- Lack of direction/story. It's never clear what the ultimate goal or destination are. There isn't enough landmarks that make an impression on you. No visual elements to tell you you'll need to return there.
- The power-ups have been done to death and are not very exciting nor fun to use. They are also too few and far between.
- Unfair difficulty spikes. You're never quite sure if you are at the correct strength level to tackle an area or a boss.
- Your power progression is very slow. You never feel like a badass.
- Poorly placed checkpoints. At least before each boss there should be a save point.
- The map upgrades (Quill, pins...) should have been standard features from the start. I bought all of them as soon as possible anyway.
- The map icons are not clear. Too many useless NPCs. Difficult to keep track of where the useful characters are as a result.
- Retrieving your soul when you die is a bad gameplay mechanic, a waste of time and doesn't bring anything of value except more stress. You are punished twice from dying.
Being and controlling Samus is just more cool and empowering overall.
HK is the first game in a long time matching the atmosphere of SM though, and that's no small feat.
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I think I prefer Ori a bit more from this gen, and even Guac is different enough to be up there for me. It's up there for sure, but it ain't dethroning anything.
I bought Hollow Knight because of this thread..
This games not even better than Ori, let alone Super Metroid. I beat it, it was cool, but it's a few other games I liked better from this gen. The art style is just not my thing.
But what do I know, I like Apotheon *shrugs*
This games not even better than Ori, let alone Super Metroid. I beat it, it was cool, but it's a few other games I liked better from this gen. The art style is just not my thing.
But what do I know, I like Apotheon *shrugs*