Im a little sad UC4 has so lil love.
Surprised about horizon I keep meaning to play it, are the quests fun and have good variety? Or is just killing robo dinos again again?
Bloodborne is great but not even top 5 for me. Crazy voting here.
If BB had a competent story and better voice acting it might be up there. I can only take so much ps2 quality storytelling. It's all in the items! Just read items! So much depth and characterization.
Looks like the Bloodborne love never dies. Still my favorite even after all the other great games that came after.
Bloodborne, it's the only game on the list where gameplay is actually a prioritize, it's also the only game on the list where the story is 99.9% told trough the gameplay and player interaction instead of just cutscene movies or setpieces.
Yeah because video game is about the story, not the gameplay.
It's funny that you think depth and characterization only comes with spoon fed cutscene and in-your-face explanations.
Woah! This fucking character talked about the state of Midgard and Yggdrasil for 10 minutes straight and wouldn't shut up! There's so much depth and characterization here! Incredible!
Seriously, go watch a movie.
I had such a good time with GoW's combat, definitely the best 'brutal' take on character action out there.How is god of earw gameplay not a priority? I have close to 400hrs in bloodborne and love thr combat but GoW combat is amazing. I dought anynone who claims they have played GoW and says the cutscenes are the priotity and not the combot. Bloodbotne also has great lore(possibly my favorite of all time) but GoW has both great lore and very interesting character progression and interactions that bloodborne lacks imho.
I think it's the way the intervals for rendering a frame are not consistent in Bloodborne, so you get a slightly jerky feeling playing through certain sections.I've seen complaints about "frame pacing" but I literally can't tell what that means in the context of a game. I'm always too immersed to notice the bad stuff. I'm not saying it's not there, just that I can't tell because this specific game captures me. I think every gamer has a game that means something like that to them. I wouldn't dare try to look for things that bug me about it, I'm not a critic, I'm not trying to sell the game, I have nothing to gain by looking for "objective" flaws in Bloodborne. It stands as, in my opinion, not only the best Sony First Party game ever made, but also the best game of all time. I don't know what else you could possibly want out of a game.
Mate, God of War doesn't even begin to compare in terms of level design to Bloodborne- and I'm not even touching combat, boss battles, and the like yet.Lol at Bloodborne, the jerk here for that game here is unprecedented. It really is Era's DAE Witcher 3. God of War is a more polished, more visually impressive, and less niche than Bloodborne. In my opinion gameplay is the only way they can even be compared and I like God of War more. But whatever it's Era so logic does not always apply.
???????
Bloodborne has better leveldesign, enemy variety and bossbattles by far. That's not Era logic that's general logic.Lol at Bloodborne, the jerk here for that game here is unprecedented. It really is Era's DAE Witcher 3. God of War is a more polished, more visually impressive, and less niche than Bloodborne. In my opinion gameplay is the only way they can even be compared and I like God of War more. But whatever it's Era so logic does not always apply.
Bloodborne, it's the only game on the list where gameplay is actually a prioritize, it's also the only game on the list where the story is 99.9% told trough the gameplay and player interaction instead of just cutscene movies or setpieces.
Yeah because video game is about the story, not the gameplay.
It's funny that you think depth and characterization only comes with spoon fed cutscene and in-your-face explanations.
Woah! This fucking character talked about the state of Midgard and Yggdrasil for 10 minutes straight and wouldn't shut up! There's so much depth and characterization here! Incredible!
Seriously, go watch a movie.
Lol at Bloodborne, the jerk here for that game here is unprecedented. It really is Era's DAE Witcher 3. God of War is a more polished, more visually impressive, and less niche than Bloodborne. In my opinion gameplay is the only way they can even be compared and I like God of War more. But whatever it's Era so logic does not always apply.
Bloodborne has better leveldesign, enemy variety and bossbattles by far. That's not Era logic that's general logic.
Personally, I'm going to have to disagree, but let me explain why.Enemy variety and bosses I can agree with, but not level design. For me God of War is equal to Bloodborne on level design. I prefer the scope and structure of Midgard to a lot of the areas in Bloodborne, and love the way they used the different lake water levels to add a level of verticality, surprise growth and progress to the levels that constantly made them feel fresh and exciting. There's really nothing like that in Bloodborne. I also find Midgard as a hub world and the use of the Bifrost, orders of magnitude more interesting than Hunters Dream or using lamps. There's also the fact that God of War has cool or interesting puzzles interwoven in to the environments, including in terms of verticality etc, that gives the level design a different type of quality that Bloodborne doesn't necessarily process. Ultimately, they both trade blows in that regard.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, I actually preferred the combat in God of War to Bloodborne. To me it seemed like there was more diversity in approach and mechanics, and I loved the way the Runes, Enhancements etc to both Kratos and Atreus added a whole other slice of creative combat opportunity and drama. Bloodborne's combat seemed more limited and samey to me, outside of high level unique or unorthodox plays, though it is of course super polished, precise and refined.
In the end they're both two of only 3 games this gen I've given a 10/10 to, but there's no point listing stuff Bloodborne does and omitting stuff God of War does better, because they excel in different areas. The puzzles, story, characters, upgrades, personalisation etc definitely added a certain fun and exciting element to God of War that I felt was missing in Bloodborne, and vice versa with respect to bosses etc.
Enemy variety and bosses I can agree with, but not level design. For me God of War is equal to Bloodborne on level design. I prefer the scope and structure of Midgard to a lot of the areas in Bloodborne, and love the way they used the different lake water levels to add a level of verticality, surprise, growth and progress to the levels that constantly made them feel fresh and exciting. There's really nothing like that in Bloodborne. I also find Midgard as a hub world and the use of the Bifrost, orders of magnitude more interesting than Hunters Dream or using lamps. There's also the fact that God of War has cool or interesting puzzles interwoven in to the environments, including in terms of layered verticality etc, that gives the level design a different type of quality that Bloodborne doesn't necessarily process. Ultimately, they both trade blows in that regard.
Also, and perhaps more importantly, I actually preferred the combat in God of War to Bloodborne. To me it seemed like there was more diversity in approach and mechanics, and I loved the way the Runes, Enhancements etc to both Kratos and Atreus added a whole other slice of creative combat opportunity and fantastical drama, whilst still on the whole remaining grounded, powerful and weighty. Bloodborne's combat seemed more limited and samey to me, outside of high level unique or unorthodox plays, though it is of course super polished, precise and refined, which is ultimately what sells it and partly what makes the combat so great.
In the end they're both two of only 3 games this gen I've given a 10/10 to, but there's no point listing stuff Bloodborne does better or really well, and omitting stuff God of War does better, because they excel in different areas. The puzzles, story, characters, upgrades, personalisation etc definitely added a certain fun and exciting element to God of War that I felt was missing in Bloodborne, and vice versa with respect to bosses etc.
Personally, I'm going to have to disagree, but let me explain why.
God of War's vertical progression which you have highlighted is a "scripted" progression, in that it happens as you progress through the story, without player involvement causing it. Were the progression in God of War's hub something that was caused directly by player action influencing it, I would have agreed with you on this- but as it stands right now, the progression is something that simply happens. As long as you are playing through the story, it will happen.
The actual design of God of War's levels, in my view, does not match Bloodborne's fine and immaculate sculpting. In a lot of ways, God of War seems like Metroidvania-lite-lite, where there's simple looped shortcuts, overt signposting for inaccessible areas (usually leading to high end, but optional and inessential, loot), and with only one area of progression available to the player at a time. This is immensely different from how Bloodborne handles its levels, which are linear, but are sculpted to simultaneously encourage exploration, experimentation, include dense loops, and extremely useful shortcuts and rewards.
In the absence of true Metroidvania design and player affected progression, plus the presence of relatively simple and linear progression paths combined with constant repeated revisits to the same areas, God of War's hub doesn't strike me as a particularly great instance of level design. It's fine, it's not bad at all, in fact it's near the top of its class, right up there with OoT etc. But I don't think it even comes close to the immaculate perfection that is the level design in Bloodborne.
Absolutely! Ultimately the fact that Sony has been able to get out so many vastly different games that manage to appeal to millions of people for so many different reasons is, more than any critical rating or GotY award or sales or whatever, the ultimate vindication of just how varied and diverse and high quality their games lineup has been, that stupid meme image be damned lol.Personally, even though I agree with Phantom Thief, I love that this is a debate. Bloodborne was top of the line for me and the highest high of Sony's first party easily once it released (before that, it was Resogun). Now people are talking about what they preferred about Horizon, why they loved Uncharted 4, why they like combat in God of War more than Bloodborne.
It's great that there's competition for the top slot, and I think (and this isn't directed at you two), nobody should be peeved that God of War isn't number one or Bloodborne isn't dominating more. It's a testament to the quality of games we've seen the previous few years from Sony that we're getting these kind of in-depth debates dissecting the games, which is great.
Personally, I'm going to have to disagree, but let me explain why.
God of War's vertical progression which you have highlighted is a "scripted" progression, in that it happens as you progress through the story, without player involvement causing it. Were the progression in God of War's hub something that was caused directly by player action influencing it, I would have agreed with you on this- but as it stands right now, the progression is something that simply happens. As long as you are playing through the story, it will happen.
The actual design of God of War's levels, in my view, does not match Bloodborne's fine and immaculate sculpting. In a lot of ways, God of War seems like Metroidvania-lite-lite, where there's simple looped shortcuts, overt signposting for inaccessible areas (usually leading to high end, but optional and inessential, loot), and with only one area of progression available to the player at a time. This is immensely different from how Bloodborne handles its levels, which are linear, but are sculpted to simultaneously encourage exploration, experimentation, include dense loops, and extremely useful shortcuts and rewards.
In the absence of true Metroidvania design and player affected progression, plus the presence of relatively simple and linear progression paths combined with constant repeated revisits to the same areas, God of War's hub doesn't strike me as a particularly great instance of level design. It's fine, it's not bad at all, in fact it's near the top of its class, right up there with OoT etc. But I don't think it even comes close to the immaculate perfection that is the level design in Bloodborne.
I wanna commend you sir for explaining why you disagree instead of just yelling no Bloodborne is better. I was even a little snarky. Excellent I see there is more to learn about Bloodborne then. I didn't expect this level of discourse on this type of thread.I'm so with you on God of War being terrific, but there are a few things that still put Bloodborne on top for me:
1) I think the side things are more involving overall even though God of War did a really good job with side content. Putting aside Old Hunters since that's DLC (though the full GOTY edition with Old Hunters is just a terrific experience), Cainhurst Castle, the Upper Cathedral Ward, the witches' abode, Old Yharnam, the old abandoned workshop area, Ioesefka's clinic, Nightmare Frontier and the Chalice Dungeons I thought added a lot to the game. I think all nailed the atmosphere really well (the upper cathedral ward felt really great to find and also felt like a really cool "hidden" area that masked some of the stuff going on in the church), and one of the coolest things was finding the ladder getting me back to the beginning of the game and into the entrance to the clinic. Or heck, sending people to a safe place and then seeing how you can screw it up (the beggar). Some of my favorite memories involve coop in the Chalice Dungeons and the bosses waiting for me there. Which leads me into:
2) I loved the amount of bosses since so many of them were really, really well-done. I wish God of War had more bosses in general, though I get that sometimes it just can't work out (similar to the cut Pandora's Box boss in the first God of War), but the games are what they are, and I felt like a million bucks defeating Bloodborne's bosses.
3) Level design in Bloodborne is really freaking good. The way the world connects and the feeling you get from exploration is ace. This is something I think God of War also does very well in a different way; it's not so much an inter-connected world as it is a world with no markings on it, so you have to use the map to find, say, treasures for treasure maps or areas that look like you can visit. Then boom, you stumble on a "hidden area" because you saw what looked like a beach and figured, "Why not see what's there?" It's just really cool, with the lack of markers as to where to go, to get yourself lost in Bloodborne. Since there is a map for God of War, it's probably for the best to have a marker telling you where the main goal is, and I do think the game did a very good job giving you a billion side paths to explore with mini-puzzles in almost all of them.
Can't fault someone for liking God of War more because I already know many of the reasons why someone would put it over. God of War is a triumph in many ways.
For what it's worth, I do think that God of War has a better hub world than Bloodborne, Bloodborne's hub is just there. It's just that, even as the kind of Metroidvania style level design that God of War was trying to emulate, I personally didn't find it to be quite as full featured as it could have been.I actually felt just as if not more compelled to explore God of War's levels than I did Bloodborne's. Not just because I felt the loot, unlocks, runes, armour etc were more valuable and rewarding than that stuff was in Bloodborne, but because the puzzles added some intriguing gameplay diversity, and also because the random side quests etc you came across were some of the best in gaming (stuff like the Dragons, the mines, pirate hideout etc).
Whilst the lake level rising is indeed scripted, the actual exploration afforded isn't. In other words, the game throws you into a semi open world sandbox hub and says, here you go, if you want to you can go and explore. And you're limited in where you can go and what you can access based on the water level, but then in later parts of the game the lowered water level adds new exploration opportunities and options, and you can essentially continue to explore with added freedom than you had prior. I personally enjoyed that. It made going back to the hub world that much more exciting and interesting each time, whereas going back to Hunters Dream was mostly out of necessity, not for fun or for more gameplay or exploration opportunity.
That said, I do agree that Bloodborne is a masterclass in level design, I just don't think it's necessarily better than God of Wars, just different. Bloodborne has incredibly detailed, rich and interconnected environments that reward exploration, and God of War has something similar, only with more emphasis on puzzles, more loot and item rewards, side quests and evolving levels due to the difference in water levels. Slightly different focus and incentives, both being extremely competent.
I can't notice that at all. Maybe it's a thing for people who get sick during video games easily? I swear I never heard or thought of "frame pacing issues" in Bloodborne until I read forums.I think it's the way the intervals for rendering a frame are not consistent in Bloodborne, so you get a slightly jerky feeling playing through certain sections.
Old Yarham come to mind as well as Yhargul in the chapel with the three hunters. Makes my stomach churn tbh.
That is one of its major flaws imo, as well as the healing system. But other than these it gets very little wrong