I dont think there is a breakfast place anywhere in the Carolinas that doesnt serve grits and biscuits and gravy.
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My boss used a racial slur in rapid succession yesterday.
- Thread starter Spork4000
- Start date
I dont think there is a breakfast place anywhere in the Carolinas that doesnt serve grits and biscuits and gravy.
I mean, you could use the title once and refer to the child as "the baby," unless there is more than one baby in the film, I guess. If I was telling someone I read Tom Sawyer, I probably wouldn't refer to Jim as "Nigger Jim."
This is just factually wrong.
It should go without saying that referring to a black person as a tar baby is blatantly racist. But there's nothing racist about the term itself or the story behind it.
Song of the South is really just symptomatic of Walt Disney's completely lack of understanding of any experience that wasn't his own white, working class, Midwestern upbringing. He was baffled by the criticism and legitimately hurt by the fact that the NAACP was so aggressive in their criticism - the guy thought black audiences would love it.
Guy even put together a campaign to earn James Baskett (Uncle Remus) an Oscar for the role, and he actually won one, and was the first black man to do so. Walt was amazingly out of touch - he was convinced it would be a landmark film for racial harmony or something.
Huh, interesting. I grew up with this children's book and always remembered it as one of my favorites when I was younger:
This is literally the first time I've ever heard of it being used (or thought of) in a racist way. The point of the story (to me) wasn't that the tar was black, but that it was sticky.
This is literally the first time I've ever heard of it being used (or thought of) in a racist way. The point of the story (to me) wasn't that the tar was black, but that it was sticky.
It's possible, again depending on the context. If I'm referring to the character "tar baby" then that is what it is. If I tried to move it out of that specific context but didn't keep it clinical, then it's different. "Too PC" has a bit of a whistle to it, but unless the OP offers more info it's not necessarily the way it was used.
I think it best to consider the term appropriated by racists and drop it from your vocabulary if you ever used it. And I heard this rarely from elders in my youth in the 80s as the sticky situation definition, never in a racial context until far more recently. We are now far removed from that "trouble" context that anyone under thirty is likely going to default to the racist interpretation, so best to just move on and not draw undesired attention.
I hear you, like I said I'm not defending the boss because there is clearly something fishy. But to say there is no context where using it isn't racist is false. It's a proper noun AND a racist slur.
Sounds like he was racist as well....
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/deepso.../the-ironic-life-of-joel-chandler-harris/amp/
Interesting, I hadn't heard any of that. I do know that the film has a very complicated history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_of_the_South#Release) including its release in segregated Atlanta.
If there's nothing racist about the term, why is it racist to call a black person a tar baby?
Make sense
Argument has been going on since the 40s when the film was released, it's not a matter of modern day political correctness. Even growing up and watching and reading the stories we were taught as children not to use the word because it could be offensive.
That said, she's ignorant for saying it in an office setting but I don't think she would get in any real trouble as there was no actual harassment, unless she actually called someone a tar baby in a racist way, since the term can be traced by definition as meaning something else. The most that would happen is they would tell her you were offended and not to say it anymore and then you have to deal with that dynamic.
While it was happening you could have said "even if I'm just being too PC I don't think you should probably say that in the workplace" or said "I don't think we should be having this conversation" and walk away. I guess that just depends on the relationship you have and the type of job.
If you are black you could report it and then try to find a lawyer and sue them but you'd have to prove the work environment was made hostile in some way, and you'd definitely lose the job at that point.
If you are deeply offended and can't bring yourself to work with her anymore, seek new employment and note it on the exit interview.
That said, she's ignorant for saying it in an office setting but I don't think she would get in any real trouble as there was no actual harassment, unless she actually called someone a tar baby in a racist way, since the term can be traced by definition as meaning something else. The most that would happen is they would tell her you were offended and not to say it anymore and then you have to deal with that dynamic.
While it was happening you could have said "even if I'm just being too PC I don't think you should probably say that in the workplace" or said "I don't think we should be having this conversation" and walk away. I guess that just depends on the relationship you have and the type of job.
If you are black you could report it and then try to find a lawyer and sue them but you'd have to prove the work environment was made hostile in some way, and you'd definitely lose the job at that point.
If you are deeply offended and can't bring yourself to work with her anymore, seek new employment and note it on the exit interview.
First time I went there I got into an argument with a 'southerner' about the name. I'm like how the hell is that place in business? He's like what, what's wrong with the name? It's funny and not offensive.
There's nothing racist about the term "monkey" but it is clearly racist to call a black person a monkey.
Does that help?
i think it's more "hi racism is wrong, but we don't want OP to to get fired for going to HR when his probably racist boss said questionable, most likely racist things, but in a roundaway enough way that if you squint and look at it from a certain angle, it can be seen as not racist, which gives management plausible deniability to give OP trouble for making the complaint."
Huh, interesting. I grew up with this children's book and always remembered it as one of my favorites when I was younger:
This is literally the first time I've ever heard of it being used (or thought of) in a racist way. The point of the story (to me) wasn't that the tar was black, but that it was sticky.
How can you look at this and not see the racist imagery? Blows my mind of the ignorance on display.
Sentences like this show how it isn't just a bit of a whistle, but the best, most effective type.
Guess what? If people tell you something is a whistle, and your first thought is how it could be but it might not be in specific situations, then you have fallen for it.
It should be pointed out that the creater of the tar baby character was created by a white man who apprenticed on a slave plantation.
I mean, I was a kid. I never grew up around any overt racism, so the idea of racism was always a bit foreign to me. I didn't really see other similar caricatures of black children until much later in life.
Do they also say "n****r-rig it" instead of "jerry-rig it" when referring to a quick or improvised fix for something? Because (pro-tip), that's also racist.
Most people, especially racists, aren't clever as much as they are stupid and ignorant. Hanlon's razor.
No it wasn't. This character predated both the author and the movie.
I think for the same reason that the word "monkey" is normally used to describe a type of animal, but racists will use it to describe black people.
There's nothing inherently racist about monkeys or the tar baby, but racists claim that black people look like monkeys or the tar baby character, so they use it as a term of abuse.
There were some racist kids at my school that used to call the black kid "Kunta Kinte", but that doesn't mean the character is racist.
Whether the word monkey or tar baby or Kunta Kinte is racist depends entirely on the context in which it is used.
It is different to the N-word, which has only ever been used as a racist term (when said by a white person). There are practically no situations in which a white person should say that (e.g. an actor playing a racist character).
However, reading this thread I seem to have dramatically underestimated the use of tar baby as a racist term in the American South (I'm English and know the term from Br'er Rabbit). That fucking soap bar... Given this widespread use, I think it would be wise to choose another metaphor when visiting there!
It sounds like your boss is racist, given the conversation and their use of the word several times and also throwing out "too PC".
That said, I would wait before going to HR. It's up to you of course, but, I imagine if your boss is this worked up over "tar baby" it's only a matter of time before they actually do cross a line with something more blatant. It's an odd and random thing to get worked up over on her part, odds are she was watching some kind of alt-right shit that sent her on this course. Engage with her in conversations, don't shy away, the more people like this talk the more comfortable they start to feel the person agrees with them and then that shit flies.
That said, I would wait before going to HR. It's up to you of course, but, I imagine if your boss is this worked up over "tar baby" it's only a matter of time before they actually do cross a line with something more blatant. It's an odd and random thing to get worked up over on her part, odds are she was watching some kind of alt-right shit that sent her on this course. Engage with her in conversations, don't shy away, the more people like this talk the more comfortable they start to feel the person agrees with them and then that shit flies.
Until this thread I had no idea "Tar Baby" was used as a slur. I've only ever heard of it in context of the Brer Rabbit story. (Grew up near DC)
Your boss sounds possibly shitty w the anti PC talk but I would tread incredibly lightly here, its very possible she literally didnt know the implications of why the specific phrase could be an issue.
I'm not sure how progressive you can expect someone born in like 1846 to be, though there is plenty of debate as to whether or not the Uncle Remus frame stories are intended to subvert traditional white Southern values or merely reinforce them. Remus often presents alternative viewpoints or perspectives that would have otherwise been scandalous to audiences of the time.
http://wrensnest.org/everything-youve-heard-about-uncle-remus-is-wrong-part-3/
In other words, Harris put forth the Uncle Remus his white, southern, 19th Century audience expected of him — i.e. the "kind old darkey" — but covertly made Uncle Remus the boss. As Cochran puts it: "The familiar plantation romance is turned upside down […] Uncle Remus is Daddy. The slave is the master." Joel Chandler Harris, like Brer Rabbit in the African American tradition of Signifying, actively exploits the difference between "what Remus means" and "how the audience interprets the text."
Because it is context of a movie/cultural fairy tale- I would not report it to HR right away.
Yes, you boss showed obvious red flags of knowing she was being racist. Document it and sit on it.
If your boss has more similar conversations, you then go to HR with pattern of racism.
Yes, you boss showed obvious red flags of knowing she was being racist. Document it and sit on it.
If your boss has more similar conversations, you then go to HR with pattern of racism.
Well, you gonna do something about....snitch, squeal, sing to Hr, then we'll see how your future in the job pans out.
You'll be the talk of the Christmas party!
You'll be the talk of the Christmas party!
Time for HR. Splash Mountain is my favorite damn ride ever but even I know the source material is horribly racist. There's a reason why Disney refuses to release a modern home video version and goes out of its way to portray SM as its own original IP.
I can't believe people are defending this shit and telling op not to report it.
I can't believe people are defending this shit and telling op not to report it.
The problem in that case is with the usage, not necessarily the term. You could say the same thing about the term "watermelon lover" or whatever racists think is clever these days.
You tell me. I tried to run the range with the images I pulled out of Google image search, from probably-not-very-racist through can't-deny-it's-overtly-racist.
It's also a 70 (seventy!) year old movie. Yes its very problematic but its far from the worst racist thing a major Hollywood studio ever did. There are cartoon shorts from around that time that were more racist than Song of the South ever was.
I never would have known what a tar baby was but if this is a pattern then report it. If this is the only time you've seen it then let it go. Just how I view it though.
So many racism defenders, but at least there are no surprises.
Your boss sounds dried up, might want to start looking for other opportunities OP
Your boss sounds dried up, might want to start looking for other opportunities OP
Any other issues with them? I think the greater context matters for me if it's worth actioning on.
It doesn't sound like this person was being racist TO someone, just saying inappropriate things
I always had morbid curiosity to watch Song of the South but it's not like it is easily accessible.
It doesn't sound like this person was being racist TO someone, just saying inappropriate things
I always had morbid curiosity to watch Song of the South but it's not like it is easily accessible.
lmao what is this, I've literally never heard tar baby used in this way. It's a slur.
And the devil is worse than Trump, doesn't make Trump not bad. And doesn't make this movie not bad and problematic.