I can't play single-player games for the sake of gameplay alone. MP games are just better for that.

I feel the opposite. MP games feel kind of pointless to me because I know I'll never be the best. The most I can hope for is top 30% and even that requires years of practice. I just don't want to commit that much time to any one game, especially when I have a giant backlog to clear out.

SP games also offer much more variety. There's a much wider array of experiences that can only be done in SP whereas MP games are generally pretty similar.

Maybe one key difference is that I play a ton of games and I see each one as a challenge to overcome. I beat the game, I move on to the next challenge. It's like MP, except instead of beating other players, you're beating games. So far this year, I've beaten 18 games in a wide variety of genres and that feels like an accomplishment to me.

TheRulingRing said:

EDIT: I want to make it clear again that I'm NOT talking about SP games with story, exploration, world-building etc.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Uh, what kind of SP games are you talking about then? Pretty much everything has story, exploration and world-building these days.

I hate multiplayer games because they're the same thing over and over again. I feel like a hamster on a wheel that the developers keep as a prisoner with the hamster water drip of skins, maps, unlocks. Single player games are usually more interesting since each one is a new universe, new locations, new encounters, new lore, the whole package. I get to experience a finely crafted experience by the developers at my own pace instead of being trapped in their skinner box.

You don't always win in multiplayer games because you were better than the other person. Shit, luck is a factor and lag.

Dark1x said:

I pretty much get nothing out of competitive multiplayer games (most of them, at least). Zero fun for me. Shooters are the worst for this these days.

I can enjoy COOP, though.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

It just came to my mind that Overwatch partially feels like a Coop game, that's probably why it is so much fun to me. Being part of a team, trying to accomplish your objective, as an individual hero with unique abilities, is incredibly fun.

Enjoying your content, keep doing these great videos! Of all DFs I like your commentaries the most (but the others are great too)!

Also, hoping the best for England, they played really well so far.

What's the point? Is what I say on every mult player game

I agree, OP. Tbagging AI isn't as satisfying as tbagging actual players.

MP is fun for a little while, but ultimately feels unfulfilling and waste of time because maybe there's no end? Most MP games are designed to be time sinks, or even worse these days, money sinks. Feels empty to me.

I definitely felt this way when I played Mario Odyssey. It honestly just couldn't hold my attention for very long. Perhaps it was because of the expanded level design with a bigger emphasis on collectables but I just couldn't help but wish I was playing Mario 3D World with my driends the whole time.

100% agreed with you OP. But this isn't a popular opinion on Era, the general attitude here is extremely dismissive of multiplayer in general.

There's a few SP games a year I'll play and love - for 30-40 hours tops. But with something like Destiny or Titanfall, I can put in hundreds or literally thousands of hours.

People are not understanding what OP said, games like souls games can feel mindless if you don't care/notice the subtle lore around it. I play them for the challenge but i can understand how some people would feel directionless and drop it all together, those kind of games are not for everybody.

I think Nintendo games are good example where gameplay is usually the main factor of the game, and you just progress through levels and learn new mechanics and improve as the game goes along.
Basically the loop of learning base mechanics>>new mechanics come along>>improve>>progress and unlock new mechanics>>Improve, until you reach the end.

It's good to find a middle ground between Cinematic games, gameplay focused games and MP.

Btw OP that was not a good title for this forum, clickbaity titles discourage actual discussion here.

I completely agree with the OP, GAAS has been the best thing to happen to games at least for myself.
With single player games I usually have no motivation to play them, they will be the same tmr or next week or next year. So I have no problem waiting for them to hit "sales" because they never change.

I dont really understand people that say MP is wasting your time....are you not having fun? is there something else you feel like you should be doing? The same people that complain about MP being the same thing over and over again seem to be the same people that have collected 600 moons in Mario or all the feathers in assassins creed.
In the end we are all playing games they are by definition "a waste of time"
Sometimes it feels likes most of the peoples goals on this site is to run through as many games as quickly as possible.

Apples and oranges.

SP and MP are very different experiences at the core, and one isn't a substitute for the other. The satisfaction of beating a tough opponent in Street Fighter is something I could never get from a CPU opponent, but the satisfaction of clearing a difficult level in Dishonored is also something I could never get from a multiplayer game. It's depressing to see so many people spew bullshit about an entire category of games they probably have very little experience with.

Crayon said:

MP is a game. SP is a puzzle.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Excellent summary.

The reality is if you aren't at the very top in multiplayer no one cares you beat some random person online and people don't look at your achievements

Single Players games are precisely what I play for great gameplay, story, and everything I love about video games.

I get a feeling of what's the point? From MP games. Not all, but most.

single player games have direction, multiplayer games have social elements and unpredictability
sometimes its relaxing to experience a more focused game without the distractions of constant mic and text chatter.

Kind of reminds me of how young people sometimes constantly check their phones during movies and such. Don't want art, just want attention!

I agree with OP.
My favorite genre is fighting games, and now I get bored out of my mind when I play them vs. the cpu.

But I always get the urge of playing online against other people. It's much more gratifying to play against real human tactics than some dumb AI.

And I think most people prefer online MP games. That's why games like Call of Duty, Battlefield, Overwatch and Fortnite are always successful. Just a vocal minority in some forums say they prefer SP.
For a SP-exclusive game to thrive it has to have a great story and/or gameplay, like God of War, Last of Us and Bloodborne/Souls games.

Sounds like you are just not into singleplayers...especially after that Bloodborne statement.

It just sound like competition is more fun to you than immersion and exploration, there are many like you, people who spent all day playing LoL, PUBG and Fortnite for example.

Singleplayer is about overcoming a challenge, immerse into a world and discover the unknown, if none of that appeal to you as much as beating someone online then It's safe to say that SP just isn't your thing, you might enjoy some of them but they are not your thing.

Competition is not the only type of gameplay.

I love adventure and exploration in single player games.

Cant see why whether a game is mp or sp matters, I enjoy good games regardless.

BlueManifest said:

The reality is if you aren't at the very top in multiplayer no one cares you beat some random person online and people don't look at your achievements

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

You don't need to win to get something out of playing against people.

Breaching a room in Rainbow Six Siege is going to be more enganging than doing the same vs an AI, even if you get shot. You make so much more tactical considerations, pay so much more attention to your execution when you know your adversary is actually thinking and can fight back propperly.

I don't need that tension all the time. But beating an enemy i know exactly, predictably how he behaves, even if that's a really hard pattern, just isn't the same.

This is not a judgemental statement, but wait till you get older OP. Those tastes will shift with time.

Yeah, I'm definitely in the camp of "what's the point" in multiplayer games.

When I really like one, I'll play it for a week or two, but then get tired of it because I'm not really building towards something.

I like following what game developers made for me, be it story or a sequence of increasing challenges.

TheRulingRing said:

No one will know of my achievements, and I don't get much satisfaction from them for myself.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I don't really care if other people know of my achievements or not. I beat a hard boss or pull off a cool trick? I can be proud of myself. I don't need other people for that kind of confirmation.
Same goes with real life "achievements" or good deeds. Would you help an old lady cross the street if nobody was looking?

Patapuf said:

You don't need to win to get something out of playing against people.

Breaching a room in Rainbow Six Siege is going to be more enganging than doing the same vs an AI, even if you get shot. You make so much more tactical considerations, pay so much more attention to your execution when you know your adversary is actually thinking and can fight back propperly.

I don't need that tension all the time. But beating an enemy i know exactly, predictably how he behaves, even if that's a really hard pattern, just isn't the same.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yea if you compare just the AI encounters in multiplayer games, multiplayer games are designed to be played against real people not AI so playing against AI in a multiplayer game is not as fun

Games that are designed to be single player from the ground up have secrets to find, areas to discover, stories to see, the gameplay isn't just about the encounters, also AI bosses in single player games are more fun than AI enemies in multiplayer game's

I change over time as well. And lately, I actually feel the opposite.

With multiplayer games, I feel "what's the point?". It's never ending. I'm doing the same thing over and over again.

Single player games are contained. They are an experience. You go from A to B, and you've completed your journey. So the point here is that you've "completed an experience". You don't get that with multiplayer since there is no end.

I'll always prefer SP. What happens when the multiplayer community moves on, multiplayer is no longer supported, servers go down, etc.? That, and I'm not competitive. Plus, I don't want to rely on other people for my enjoyment.

I enjoy world building, immersion, and I like SP games with replay value, something that keeps me coming back outside of multiplayer. I don't care if I'm better or worse than other players. I'm just playing to have fun, not to prove anything to myself or anyone else.

Ultimately, to each their own.

I feel you OP. My favourite games of recent years were all competitive multiplayer games. You just don't get the same tension and high from SP games. As I get older I have less and less patience for common issues in SP games such as bad writing and filler content. None of which exist in MP focused games.

Of course every once in a while an SP game is just so well made that I can't put it down, but mostly it's about MP games for me now.

Even on mobile I solely play MP games like Clash Royale and Hearthstone.

BlueManifest said:

Yea if you compare just the AI in multiplayer games, multiplayer games are designed to be played against real people not AI so playing against AI in a multiplayer game is not as fun

Games that are designed to be single player from the ground up have secrets to find, areas to discover, stories to see, the gameplay isn't just about the encounters, also AI bosses in single player games are more fun than AI enemies in multiplayer game's

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

There's SP tactical shooter. Old Rainbow six titles have plenty of scenarios where you need to breach a room. Those are good games but you will never feel tension in doing that that you feel in the MP game. It's just not something that happens when playing against AI. Worst case you releoad.

To your other point, killing an AI boss is killing an AI boss in SP or MP. What OP is saying is that humans are a more interesting opponent than an AI. I find that hard to argue with, even though i like SP games too.

Multiplayer can indeed be a lot of fun but I find it can be just as much devoid of it. In online multiplayer I often feel at the mercy of trolls and hateful/aggressive talk/behaviour, especially in competitive multiplayer which I've largely abandoned at this point but even in co-op against AI it can be a big problem. I generally prefer singleplayer simply for the fact that it's an experience I'm more in control of.

Dark1x said:

I pretty much get nothing out of competitive multiplayer games (most of them, at least). Zero fun for me. Shooters are the worst for this these days.

I can enjoy COOP, though.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Sounds like you need to try rainbow six siege if you haven't already that is. One of the most rewarding/satisfying games from a gameplay perspective.

Patapuf said:

There's SP tactical shooter. Old Rainbow six titles have plenty of scenarios where you need to breach a room. Those are good games but you will never feel tension in doing that in the same way. It's just not something that happens when playing against AI. Worst case you releoad.

And killing an AI boss is killing an AI boss in SP or MP. What OP is saying is that humans are a more interesting opponent than an AI. I find that hard to argue with, even though i like SP games too.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Also don't forget level design itself, where in something like mario where the actual level is the enemy, only possible in single player.
You seemed to be only focused on shooters and enemy encounters

I have a friend who prefers MMO and games like Overwatch and he's the kind of person to troll and teabag people.
I am not saying everyone who like Multiplayer is like that but clearly, they enjoy the competition.

Personally I could not careless to prove to someone I don't even know I am better than him/her.
What I do care about is Story, lore, coop, and good game mechanics I had my share of online gaming like 10 years ago and got tired of it.

I'd also like to say that there is one exception to that, the PvP in Souls series is awesome and I always enjoyed it.

BlueManifest said:

Also don't forget level design itself, where in something like mario where the actual level is the enemy, only possible in single player.
You seemed to be only focused on shooters and enemy encounters

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

This was just a shooter example, you can do the same for card games, racing, fighting etc. An Ai is never going to optimally use it's abilities to kill you. Like, that huge Boss with a million HP will still cycle through a set amount of animations it repeates to kill you. No creativity in the usage of his ability pool. Suprassing that can be satisfying too of course. I just feel a whole different level of tension when i know my opponent is smart.

Like OP is saying, it's not that I dislike story or exploration, atmosphere ect. In fact, i need it because the combat loop itself can be lacking.

Level design is hugely important in both, SP and MP games. If the playground is bad, the game will be too, no argument there.

I like to feel the artists design in all aspects of the work, and a controlled singleplayer campaign where someone handcrafted every encounter and paced out an entire discrete experience is much more interesting, and satisfying, than trying to test my "skills" against some other person, where another human sort of becomes the focal point of the artistry, rather than the work itself — despite engaging through the medium of the work.

I agree with you OP. I'm in the same boat. There are exceptions of some singleplayer games where I like to play these, too. But in general multiplayer gaming for me is the much better and richer experience in every way. It's the unpredictability and dynamic that matters the most for me.

Obviously this opinion isn't very popular here on a "core gaming" forum, but people need to accept it any way. The most played top lists on every platform just prove that the majority of gamers play multiplayer games more. Much more due to its nature if replaybility, something a singleplayer game will always lack.

I used to have that mentality, but the novelty of going online to play against actual people has worn off for me. I like the fact that you can get a tailored, sort of on-rails experience with a single player centric game, where there is an emphasis on other factors outside of mechanics. It doesn't necessarily need to be strong story, but usually single player games will have one that is somewhat of a driving factor.

Another part of the appeal is being able to dabble in multiple experiences for 15-40 hours, and then being able to put it down for awhile. Usually I found myself investing in the 100s of hours with online games, which can be a great experience and a benefit to my bank account, but I'd miss out on a bunch of gems. I'd definitely of missed out on GOATs that I see sticking with me for the rest of my life.

Fancy Clown said:

I like to feel the artists design in all aspects of the work, and a controlled singleplayer campaign where someone handcrafted every encounter and paced out an entire discrete experience is much more interesting, and satisfying, than trying to test my "skills" against some other person, where another human sort of becomes the focal point of the artistry, rather than the work itself — despite engaging through the medium of the work.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Was just basically typing this in a much less eloquent fashion so fuck it, I'll just quote you.

I grew up with arcades and even then I got nothing out of high score competing and so on. I've always gotten my competitive urges out in martial arts and soccer/football, maybe that's why that aspect of gaming doesn't interest me. Just overall, I have minus zero interest in multiplayer gaming of any sort and especially online. The very few times I've tried to get myself into it as one does occasionally, it just did nothing for me.

For some genres I absolutely agree. Racing games for instance always feel a bit pointless with AI drivers. There's just no excitement in that kind of racing, because you don't care about your overall driving style. When I race against really good people It's like a real workout. As I play with wheel and pedals my entire body is engaged in the experience. And when there's real people almost anything can happen making the experience very dynamic and challenging.

Ocean said:

100% agreed with you OP. But this isn't a popular opinion on Era, the general attitude here is extremely dismissive of multiplayer in general.

There's a few SP games a year I'll play and love - for 30-40 hours tops. But with something like Destiny or Titanfall, I can put in hundreds or literally thousands of hours.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Yup same here as well. Last one was BOTW. Not another SP in sight that i'll put real time into. Wasting time by myself IMO.

I want online interaction with other people (usually people i already know) and some sense of accomplishment and competition with humans. Chatting in Discord with my friends and family while cooperatively playing an online game (or playing couch co-op with my wife) is an experience that serves many purposes. Me plugging away at a 40+ hour SP RPG always feels like a waste of time at the end when i finish. To each his/her own though.

I completely avoid MP games: lag (compensation), modded controllers, thus never knowing if someone is actually good, endless waiting in lobbies, no long term goals (besides from getting a certain gun or something, I don't care about level or going prestige in CoD).

I game to avoid real people and enjoy a good story with some fine gameplay. It's a way for me to relax. Multiplayer gaming will never ever make me feel relaxed, unless it's something like Journey co-op.

TheRulingRing said:

The issue is that MP games naturally make gameplay more compelling. When I beat opponents online I know it was because I was better than them - it's actual people, not intentionally fodder AI. Not everyone is supposed to get a victory royale, so it feels satisfying and earned when you get one. Not everyone can have pride of place at the top of the leaderboards at the end of a game, so it feels satisfying when you get to be that guy.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

My view is the exact polar opposite of this. I play games to relax and unwind. I'm not looking for a game to bloody my nose and revel in the punishment. I'm not interested in playing against people online who have spent hundreds of hours more than me playing the game and memorizing every strategy.

I want to play a game and beat it with minimal effort. When a game starts putting up incredibly difficult encounters just to "test my skill", I drop the game. I'm not interested in my "gaming skillzzz" being tested. I play games for fun, not as a means of punching my hardcore gamer card for all to see.

It's why I tend to prefer single player games, and why I usually play them on Easy. It's probably better for my stress levels, too.

Barrel Cannon said:

Sounds like you need to try rainbow six siege if you haven't already that is. One of the most rewarding/satisfying games from a gameplay perspective.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I have and it's one of the few MP games I've loved over the last few years.

I love both.

I will say that this has been an amazing period for MP games, for me. Some of my all time favorites have been released within the past few years, headlined by Titanfall 2, Rainbow 6 Siege, and Overwatch.

But I'm equally as excited by Red Dead Redemption 2 and Spider-Man as I am by Battlefield V and Vermintide 2 this year.

Battle Royale definitely isn't my thing yet, though.

What's happening in ERA with all these weird hot takes? Must be the summer...

hibikase said:

Multiplayer games make me feel like I'm not accomplishing anything. It's just the same thing over and over again with no end goal.

Ultimately all video games are a waste of time but I need an overall objective, at least.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

The objective is personal improvement.

Rolento said:

This is not a judgemental statement, but wait till you get older OP. Those tastes will shift with time.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

As I've gotten older, I've gravitated more toward multiplayer and away from single player ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I find multiplayer stuff has to be mechanically sound or it'll fall apart quickly. SP games can gloss over poor design with high productions values, narrative, etc. I still play SP games, but I scrutinize what I play a lot more closely.

Multiplayer games are the electronic counterpart to competitive sports like Football, Tennis or Soccer I'd say. So folks who say "What's the point of multiplayer games?", that's basically like saying "What's the point of competitive sports (when you're not playing on world-class level)?".


Or like, what's the point of Chess?

Zissou said:

The objective is personal improvement.

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

Unless you're a professional eSports player, being good at video games is not a useful life skill.

The other thing about multiplayer is the skill gap between peoples play time

If you only have 3 to 4 hrs of game time per day your always just going to be middle of the road average player, winning and losing to other average players, this becomes repetitive and gets you no where, and if you ever decide to take a break you fall behind even more

And during this time of you being an average player winning and losing on repeat your missing out on so many other experiences

TheRulingRing said:

Recently I started getting properly back into SP games, but I found that they could no longer hold my attention unless they had a great story to rope me in. Otherwise I would get this feeling of "what's the point?".

Click to expand...

Click to shrink...

I feel you, man!

This is exactly how I feel for the last few years. There was a time I could play (endless) games like Morrowind, Oblivion or Skirmish/RTS games hours and hours. It was Skyrim that oppened my eyes, when I beat the first dragon after roughly five hours, did some more side quest and realized: okay, I think I've seen everything now this game has to offer, everything else is just repitition with slight variations. The lack of thrilling and drama in a (SP) game really turns me off after some hours. There are only very few games, like XCOM or Darkest Dungeon, that kept me hooked almost purely with gameplay.

Multiplayer games are a bit different to me, since, like in a football match, every game is different for the whole time. The fatique settles way later; Overwatch 'took' about 400 hours of my time, before it became a bit boring, due to the fact I realized I won't go further up the ranks and hit my skill ceiling (without investing tremendously more time in a game that's just entertainment for me and not ambition).