Digital Art Hardware/Software ERA [OT]

Wulfric said:

Can I get a little help here?

I bought the Monoprice 22' inch pen display since the price was seemed really good, but cannot get the pen to work for the life of me: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=21825

The drivers included on the CD install without a hitch, and I restart my PC. I can get picture to display through HDMI, but that's about it. I tried it on a Windows 8.1 PC and a Windows 10 laptop. No luck. I can't even uninstall it since the software doesn't appear in my programs list.

Perhaps I should try the drivers for the Huion equivalent since I see some people saying they have the same internals? I charged the pen in advance, but I can't even do the calibration in the current state.

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Is the USB cable plugged in?

So the pen does not show up at all? No cursor? No nothing?

I think the pen is DOA. I thought these things came with a second pen, no?

That link you gave earlier says the pen is batteryless. I'm confused.

LOL. Not to laugh at your frustration but that's hilarious.

dekdek said:

Do any of you have experience with the lenovo miix 700? It seems like it is one

Tf the best but cheaper surface pro clones (I particularly like the better stand)but I have read some reviews that argued that the distance from screen when the monitors registers cursor movement was too short. Don't know why that was considered so important.

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I still have my Miix 700. Had it for over 3 years now. Still going strong.

So that issue is called pen hover distance, and it relates to palm rejection. Hover distance is how far you can hold the pen away from the screen and still have the pen detected (by moving the cursor without touching down). The idea is that the further the pen is detected away from the screen the sooner the computer can turn off the touch input so the errant touch of the palm or finger can be rejected so less chance of unwanted marks being made or canvas being moved.

Miix 700 is a lot like other projected capacitive pen devices (Surface Pros after 2, iPad Pros with Apple Pencil) is that it's hover distance is pretty shallow. I'd say about 3/16th of an inch or so. Before Projected Capacitive pens, there were only Electro Magnetic Resonance pens, mainly from Wacom. EMR uses magnetic waves emitted from the screen to power the pen (Pro Cap pens uses batteries inside the pen), and by that nature have much bigger hover distance. 1/4" or higher. So it would have better palm rejection. the

Although all of that I said is technically true, that's not the real reason why EMR has better palm rejection than Pro Cap at the end of the day. It's because Pro Cap pen shares the same digitizer as touch to drive the pen while EMR has separate digitizer for the pen. That's right, all EMR devices that also allow touch input has two distinct and separate digitizers on the screen (touch on top, and pen under the LCD). This is why EMR device will never confuse finger or palm (or your dick) with the pen, while you can sometimes momentarily confuse a Pro Cap device whether you are using the pen or your finger/palm/dick.

In any case, Miix 700 was a solid choice for Windows tablet with Pro Cap pen. Still is if you can get it for well below $500. I got mine new back in 2015 IIRC for $550. I wouldn't spend more than $350 for one today. Even though the digitizer is Wacom AES pen compatible, it's not made by Wacom so you can't use Wacom Feel Wintab driver with it. So if you have legacy app that needs Wintab, you are kinda screwed. You also can't map the pen barrel buttons like the Wacom AES devices. Also 6th gen Core M is getting a bit old. Still capable, but old.

If you find one for say $300, go for it. Otherwise, save up for Miix 520 with 8th gen Core i5/i7 with proper Wacom AES digitizer.

I watched JW2 Electric Boogaloo yesterday so I drew a hungry T rex on my stream tonight.

Froli said:

Anyone owns a Huion Kamvas GT-221 pro? how's the performance and do you guys recommend it?

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From video reviews I've seen in the past, the pen performance seems good. IIRC it's UC Logic pen so they are always good. The issue comes down to whether you will like the drawing surface feel (plastic) and if the parallax will bother you (thick plastic). Also there is no touch so I personally won't be replacing my ancient 21UX for it. And the cable management is a bit of a mess but that's minor IMO.

Froli said:

Hmm that sounds good. I have a budget around 900 usd, can you guys give me an alternative? I really want to have more options

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Used Cintiqs. Seriously. If they are still working, they will probably work for much more. Ebay for DTK 21UX (DTK-2100) if you don't need touch. You will probably find much cheaper than $900 sold prices.

supervga said:

Hey Shogmaster, I know I asked this before but I finally got the founds ready and wanted to make sure I"m not overlooking something:
- I know the IPAD Pro is pretty much what I want in terms of feel and portability (the 12inch probably)
BUT
- I'm still bummed that my main working software (Storyboard Pro) only runs on Win or real Mac
I could to thumbnails on the ipad but not even having the option to "really" work on it is a bit lame.

I have a budget of around 1500ish, if the Cintiq Studios would be cheaper I'd go with that but they are 2,200 Canadian Dollars.
Is there any windows alternative that I'm overlooking?

I know you get this stuff a lot but I'm torn apart here between what would be sexy (ipad) and what would make more sense (a windows thing)

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So are you saying you have 1500 budget in US dollars or Canadian dollars?

If you are happy with 12ish size and want to run heavy duty software, I can only think of one machine: Lenovo Miix 520. If you can go bigger, you have more options but if you need to keep it to $1500CAN I think Miix 520 is as good as it gets.

onadesertedisland said:

Is this a good deal? https://us-store.wacom.com/Catalog/refurbished-products/cintiq-companion-2-intel-core-refurbished

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That's pretty damn good for a Cintiq Companion with 512GB SSD.

The thing you have to determine is if you will be OK investing that much in a new computer with a dual core i5 from several generations ago and if 8GB will be enough for the device lifetime. That money could get you a modern unit with new quad core i5 and maybe upgradable RAM, but with far less capable pen and digitizer.

supervga said:

Yeah, Canadian. And it does not really have to be a powerhouse, Storyboard is vector based and the dpi is always 72.
Max I work in PS is 300Dpi. I would get that refurbished Companion if I could (they only allow US adresses).

BUT that Lenovo Miix 520 looks pretty great. Have you drawn on it? Does it feel like a Surface or better?
Just looking around, I'm having trouble finding a reputable seller here in Canada but I'll keep looking.

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I am familar with Wacom AES inside the Miix 520. Given decent CPU power, the pen works nearly as well as EMR and about par with Apple Pencil, but with the additional overhead of dealing with desktop OS and mouse and keyboard layers hindering on pen input.

For vector apps you really want decent CPU power over gobs of RAM.

onadesertedisland said:

Thought so. For me I have a desktop with 64gb and an I7-4790k to do heavy lifting. I have a Lenova Miix, but the digitizer is just enough off from my Wacom Intuos that I don't use it as much. I wish I could justify the purchase right now, but don't really need it.

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Maybe you should try a used EMR device? You will have to replace the battery if it's really old tho. Fujitsu T902 would be REALLY cheap now but still more than capable. A bit chunky but capable. A Lenovo Helix Gen 2 would be also very nice with 8GB of RAM but the CPU is a bit weak. Same CPU as the 12" Macbook. You can find it for around $500 or so.

Kazoku_ said:

Does anyone here have any experience using Color, the art app by the people behind PicsArt?

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What platform is it for? iOS? Android? Windows/MacOS?

I was drawing all day at a cafe with friend. I had my Asus Vivotab Note 8 (Atom Z2740D, 2GB RAM, 32Gb eMMC, 8" 1280x800 LCD with Wacom EMR) and he was using 1st gen 12.9" iPad Pro with Apple Pencil. We both drew with Clip Studio Paint.

I don't know what kind of Voodoo Magic Wacom uses in the EMR digitizer board, but it was drawing circles around the iPad Pro with the same app. You just couldn't get the same line quality and nuances with the iPad vs this old and ancient Atom powered Windows tablet. EMR is still the king, even on shit hardware.

Anyways, here's one of the things I drew today. Trying to get back into drawing cars. The struggle is real...

Froli said:

https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Touchscreen-Computer-Bluetooth-Detachable/dp/B07CSR9JYH/


Samsung 2018 Galaxy Book 12" FHD+ 2-in-1 Touchscreen Tablet Laptop Computer, Intel Core i5-7200U up to 3.10GHz, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD, AC WIFI, Bluetooth 4.1, USB Type-C, Detachable KB, Windows 10 Pro

This 2018 version seems to have good reviews

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Wow that's $350 off the current price at Best Buy! And Thanks to the Wacom EMR digitizer, this is the best sub 15" art tablet in existence. Destroys everything in Pen feel. I wish I had spare $1000 to justify spending...

I wonder if this is price drop in prep for Kaby R version refresh...

hurlex said:

How does this compare to an iPad Pro? Let's assume I'll be using CSP on both.

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Wacom "pro" DTK/DTH EMR - 9
Wacom "consumer" DTU EMR - 8.5 <--- Samsung S Pen
Apple Pencil - 7.5
Wacom AES - 7
MPP w MS accelerator chip - 6.5
generic MPP - 5

Those are my current digitizer/pen ratings. Apple Pencil feels largely the same as Wacom DTU EMR except for pressure responsiveness. I can do much better low to high and back and forth pressure modulation with Wacom EMR than Apple Pencil. Also EMR by their nature is more responsive than any of the Pro Cap stuff at initial pen touchdown.

supervga said:

Thats a good looking car!

Shogmaster , I can't order the Miix 520 (out of stock), BUT the Lenovo Canada store has the 720 in stock:
I saw you doodling that stormtropper on the 700? Is the 720 good? If I look at that list above, my guess its a 7 with the Wacom AES?

Its very close to what the Ipad Pro would cost me, the only thing that bummes me out is the restock fee
in case I hate the "feel" of it.

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Dude, if you are willing to step down to dual core i5/i7 on the 720 from quad core of 520, then get that Galaxy Book 12" deal Froli posted for the EMR goodness. The only things you'd be giving up from the Lenovos is the Wacom Feel driver for legacy apps and a built in kick stand for the sake of a far superior digitizer and pen.

supervga said:

Yeah, that deal makes it 700 canadian dollar cheaper even WITH the 100 bucks import fee.
But what does the Wacom Feel driver thing mean? Could some normal window apps not work with the pen?
EDIT
I googled and kinda got it I think.

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Feel driver is a package that includes Wintab driver for legacy art apps and Wacom utility to map keys to pen buttons and other pen related functions. If you use old legacy art apps that requires Wintab, then you need the Feel driver, which is not available on the new Samsungs.

Congrats guys! I'm pretty jelly right now.

Huw_Dawson said:

Autodesk Sketchbook being free now is ace. It's a little faster to get in to than CSP so good for mindless sketching.

I'm trying to find a route into a Wacom digitiser that isn't going to make me wince. I've got severe issues with the jitter on the cheap Cintiq clones I've used. Either it's biting the bullet on something like a 22HD or the 16" Pro, both well over a grand in £, or going for something like the Intuos Pro and a decent 4k screen with solid colour repro, which would be less than a grand.

My use case is digital comics, so good lines are a huge priority for me.

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How bout used Cintiqs? I'm still using a DTZ-2100 which is now well over 12 years old and goes for about $300US on eBay. If they work, they WORK. You just need to replace the pen which is probably damaged by now due to over use.

hurlex said:

I got the Samsung Galaxy Book. It's pretty nice. Not sure if I like it better than an iPad Pro, but that is more due to iOS vs Win 10. I def like the S pen better. I'm playing with both and going to decide which one I should keep.

The pinch to zoom and rotate in CSP is more laggy on it than my iPP. Does anyone else have this issue on a Windows convertibles? Not sure if there is some update I'm missing or if this is common. That's the one thing that is irritating me.

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Thats due to Windows mouse layer buttinginsky. Multitouch can never be as fluid for that reason. You get use to it quick.