This is a good point. I was a David Lynch fan before ever watching Twin Peaks, so The Return pretty much being 18 hours of new David Lynch material sold it for me, but if you're just a Twin Peaks fan, it can definitely be a miss.
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LTTP: Twin Peaks (Should I stop after Season 2?)
- Thread starter StormBrute
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This is a good point. I was a David Lynch fan before ever watching Twin Peaks, so The Return pretty much being 18 hours of new David Lynch material sold it for me, but if you're just a Twin Peaks fan, it can definitely be a miss.
Yeah, I couldnt finish S3. Gave up a little more than halfway through.
I'd say the first season has weird moments and the dream sequence in Episode 3 is where that kicks off, but it is a bit tamer overall in comparison to what follows by the end of the second season. The following film; Fire Walk With Me balances the drama and oddness out a bit.
Then last year's Season 3 ramps the weirdness up to 11.
The consensus view among Twin Peaks fans is Season 3 is better than Season 2. By far.
Twin Peaks Season 3 is the best season of television I have ever seen in my life.
.
Season 3 is plodding, boring, and not worth the effort. It's also lifeless as fuuuuuck with little in the way of satisfaction. Oh and laughable in its intent- every mystery it presents sucks, and every mystery it tries to reconnect to, it flounders.
The first two episodes are a great ending to "what happened?". Avoid the rest at all costs, even the oh so hallowed Episode 8.
Episode 8 is amazing and even if someone hates The Return they shouldn't call it quits until experiencing that episode.
It's an investment (especially slogging through a good portion of season 2 as you have already), but the pay off with FWWM and The Return is so worth it. The two are inextricably linked so you should watch both.
I enjoyed some of the soap-y melodrama of the initial run as well, but I tend to walk away with so much more from the horrific and surreal elements, so it definitely catered toward my tastes. Honestly, I'd say it's worth watching the movie and then giving The Return a try at least. You've made it this far, give it a shot!
The Return is unpredictable, terrifying, maddening and completely unforgettable (for better or worse). I felt rewarded by the whole experience but I can see why some could be turned off of it.
There's plenty of "weird" all throughout the show, but I'd say watch a couple more as you will hit some very "David Lynch moments" early on. Though I think if you're just looking for weird for the sake of weird you may not like it. A major component of the first two seasons is the over the top, soap-y melodrama of the quirky inhabitants tied into the surreal and disturbing underbelly of the town.
Twin Peaks is nothing like Lost or The Leftovers so it may not quite be what you're looking for.
I enjoyed some of the soap-y melodrama of the initial run as well, but I tend to walk away with so much more from the horrific and surreal elements, so it definitely catered toward my tastes. Honestly, I'd say it's worth watching the movie and then giving The Return a try at least. You've made it this far, give it a shot!
The Return is unpredictable, terrifying, maddening and completely unforgettable (for better or worse). I felt rewarded by the whole experience but I can see why some could be turned off of it.
There's plenty of "weird" all throughout the show, but I'd say watch a couple more as you will hit some very "David Lynch moments" early on. Though I think if you're just looking for weird for the sake of weird you may not like it. A major component of the first two seasons is the over the top, soap-y melodrama of the quirky inhabitants tied into the surreal and disturbing underbelly of the town.
Twin Peaks is nothing like Lost or The Leftovers so it may not quite be what you're looking for.
No. If anything is skippable in Twin Peaks, it's the middle of season 2. The Return is basically a 17 hour Lynch movie. It's far from perfect and peaks with episode 8, but it's much more worthwhile than those mid-season 2 plots.
Nah. It's great on one level, but absolute shit on another. Total shit. Unfiltered stupidity. But I won't get into that here.
Great visuals, great audio, the "plot" - and what it depicts- is some of the hokiest stupid shit that even Marvel fans would roll eyes at.
I can't imagine anyone starting Twin Peaks now and not watching everything, including The Missing Pieces.
You should know exactly what you are in for going into the Twin Peaks. Go along for the whole ride.
You should know exactly what you are in for going into the Twin Peaks. Go along for the whole ride.
FWWM is absolutely essential in my opinion. The latter half of Season 2 and all of Season 3 are totally vestigial.
The good content in Twin Peaks is all about the initial mystery of Laura's murder. Once you feel satisfied with its solution, jump ship.
The good content in Twin Peaks is all about the initial mystery of Laura's murder. Once you feel satisfied with its solution, jump ship.
Crowdfunding? I don't think that's how S3 was financed as far as I can recall.
You must watch FWWM next. It's a must. Especially the ending.
But... The Return is both extremely disappointing and absolute must see madness. I dislike it for lack of many resolutions I waited 26 years for. Broke my heart over and over. But I loved it as a lover of Lynch and surrealism. Life gets no weirder than season 3.
But... The Return is both extremely disappointing and absolute must see madness. I dislike it for lack of many resolutions I waited 26 years for. Broke my heart over and over. But I loved it as a lover of Lynch and surrealism. Life gets no weirder than season 3.
This is terrible advice solely because it indicates plot is all that matters. There is more to narratives than just plot points. Go read a Wikipedia if that's all you want. The telling is just as important, and even more so with Lynch. His work is about feeling. And the heights of TP-The Pilot, the reveal of the killer, season 2 finale, FWWM, and The Return- all reward the viewer, if Lynch's style is your kind of thing, in spades.
I don't want to discount Mark Frost here either. The chemistry between the two men is clearly magic.
You also can't predict what touches you in art. You have to experience things on your own. Often the most unexpected elements reach out to you. It's best to discover that on your own rather than have someone tell you what your should do.
Plot isn't all that matters, but it isn't something you can just discard either.
Again, and I can't remind people of this enough: Lynch didn't want to reveal the killer. He wanted the mystery to remain unsolved forever. "It is happening again," widely considered the best scene in the series, would not have existed if Lynch had been allowed complete control of the plot.
He's an excellent artist and a bad storyteller. If you're in TP for the story, there's very little there for you once the core mystery is solved.
Gonna have to disagree on this, ep 8 did nothing for me. I held on to that ep hoping it would be as great as described but I don't see the hype.
That's true but also the setup of the Black and White Lodges were really interesting in the original series. I wanted to know more.
Season 3 is fascinating for how batshit crazy it is, but it does a very poor job of continuing the established story of S2. I felt like the plot really meandered, most of the new characters weren't all that interesting (aside from the Las Vegas gangster brothers) and it doesn't provide any kind of overall resolution (which is not a criticism; just don't go into it expecting something like that).
Overall I wasn't really a fan, but I realise I'm in the vast majority on this one. But then I also thought S2 was a waste of time for the most part as well, and it should have been about 6-8 episodes long and cut out all of the nonsense with Ben Horn losing his mind, Josie being blackmailed, Donna and the hermit guy, etc. S1 is damn near perfection though.
I think the thing which annoyed me the most out of The Return was that they get almost everyone back from S1 & S2 to play their parts again, but aside from a couple of them they're given almost nothing to do. There's a nice catharsis for
Ed and Norma
EDIT - I should say, I never saw Fire Walk With Me, so that could have affected how much (or little) I enjoyed S3. It's probably worth watching if you have the means, but I don't agree at all with all these people calling it the greatest season of TV ever and whatnot. It's not even the best TP season.
I couldn't have said it any better myself.
With there being so much legitimately good television over the past 15 years, statements like this are wholly tone-deaf.
Ah my bad I mixed the fan petition to get him back as crowdfunding in my head for some reason lol.
I loved FWWM, but I hated the Return so much that it brought down my appreciation for the whole series retroactively.
I'm sure I'll return to the original material some day, but at the moment I'm still too mad at the Return to even really think about Twin Peaks.
The book, "The secret history of Twin Peaks" by Mark Frost is also terrible (imo). I didn't bother getting "The Final Dossier".
"The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" by Jen Lynch is really good though. Especially if you read it before watching FWWM. It helps you relate to Laura even more.
I'm curious to know how it goes for you.
I'm sure I'll return to the original material some day, but at the moment I'm still too mad at the Return to even really think about Twin Peaks.
The book, "The secret history of Twin Peaks" by Mark Frost is also terrible (imo). I didn't bother getting "The Final Dossier".
"The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer" by Jen Lynch is really good though. Especially if you read it before watching FWWM. It helps you relate to Laura even more.
I'm curious to know how it goes for you.
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Showtime funded it, and along the way gave it even more funding.
That's true, it's too bad then that due to budgetary and scheduling constraints he was forced to deliver the show that often was so lifeless and devoid of "feeling," it got people thinking that he's purposefully sabotaging his own work to make some kind of statement.
You know something's gone terribly wrong when you have Harry Dean Stanton acting his butt off, with Angelo Badalamenti's score firing at all cylinders and the most intense emotion the scene manages to evoke is... well, this:
That book would make you FURIOUS. You should check it out someday if you're ever in the mood for a book burning.
Twin Peaks: The Return > Twin Peaks: Fire Walk With Me > Season 1 > Season 2
but all of it is essential. If you just don't watch certain parts of it............... that's real dumb. Don't do that
but all of it is essential. If you just don't watch certain parts of it............... that's real dumb. Don't do that
They aren't similar at all to me. There's no wasted time in FWWM.
It has one of the best payoffs in television history.
No way. It's terrible.
Erasing the original series? Really Lynch?!
I personally think the whole agent storyline before it focuses on Laura feels pointless. Lynch planned to continue the storyline in a sequel film that never came to be. But I can totally see how The Return's pacing could be annoying.
You mean when Coop finally
wakes up and says "I am the FBI"?
I enjoyed watching the whole thing, but I agree. OP, The Return will not give what most people wanted, which was a continuation of the first season of Twin Peaks. I would also add that Fire Walk With Me is also very different from the show in terms of tone.
It was a great, air-punching moment. I just found much of what preceded it a drudge.
Too many characters given nothing to do: Audrey, James (it should have really been him that
smashed the BOB-orb
the first couple seasons were part supernatural murder mystery and part parody of soap operas. the soap opera-like "odd characters doing odd things" stuff takes up way more total minutes of screen time. If you're just looking for "what the bloody hell is going on reality is falling apart" and don't find any of the character interaction cozy or funny the original seasons of the show might not work for you.
or if you mean you were expecting the characters to be weirder even in mundane interactions, idk i can't remember how fast they got odder.
This. It's an experience and you should experience all of it.
S3 made me feel things I've never felt while watching a show or a movie. It's a crazy ride and Lynch is driving you for 17hrs straight. Pure orgasm!
Of course it isn't perfect, but what is?
Except for 'The Return' (and FWWM to a lessor extent), the crazy and bizzare stuff of Twin Peaks happens rather infrequently. I would say that is what makes great Twin Peaks content great -- the contrast when the weirdness happens really strengthens the effect of it. If you're watching for the first time, and you don't know when the weird in coming, it's great.
FWWM increases the weird factor by a lot, but it still is not completely overwhelming -- there is still normal stuff there that ties into S1/S2 of Twin Peaks, and follows a narrative logic. The weird stuff still works.
'The Return' is David Lynch at his most Michael Bay. Expect about as much logic, plot, and respect for the viewer as you would expect from a modern Micael Bay explosion-fest film.
Michael Bay does't seem to understand that action and explosions lose all impact if there is no down time between them, no refractory period. If everything is constantly ACTION, then nothing is -- and the viewer just becomes numb. David Lynch made the same mistake with 'The Return' -- nearly everything is meandering or confusing nonsense. To me, if felt as if there was no care or respect shown to either the characters or viewers of 'Twin Peaks'.
That said, 'The Return' does have some top-tier David Lynch insanity -- I just wish it wasn't called 'Twin Peaks', because it is definiately not 'Twin Peaks' at heart.
Then how did it feel when they revealed that it wasn't a pay-off at all
and that the whole short-lived Cartoon Cooper persona was just a ruse?
I'm glad that wasn't how they actually handled the character in the end because it momentarily undid the entire point of bringing the show back after 25 years.
It was strange seeing people freak out about that moment after spending an entire season repeating that this show is above fanservice.
OP
OP
Thank you all for the feedback! I'm still conflicted on whether to watch season 3 or not, because there seems to be a lot of mixed opinions, but I think I'll give FWWM a shot after finishing up season 2 tonight, whenever I manage to get my hands on it.
Question though: is there a version of FWWM with The Missing Pieces all integrated in, or are they two separate things where I'll just have to watch The Missing Pieces after FWWM?
Question though: is there a version of FWWM with The Missing Pieces all integrated in, or are they two separate things where I'll just have to watch The Missing Pieces after FWWM?
I'm not sure if this is the only way to get The Missing Pieces, but I got it with the 'Twin Peaks The Entire Mystery' Blu-ray box set -- it has all of S1/S2/FWWM and The Missing Pieces. It's not cheap that way, but it did have everything (at the time). It is not integrated into FWWM; it is a different video that you would watch after FWWM.
Let us know what you think about S2/FWWM -- what you like or dislike about those will help inform how important it is to watch 'The Return'. I felt the things missing from 'The Return' made it a negative experience for me, but it's clear not everyone had that opinion.
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There's a fan-made integrated version, but not an official one. I'd watch them separately for your first viewing.
On the S3 question, I'm in the camp that absolutely loved it, even when it was confounding.
I don't know how you'll feel about it, but I think it's worth watching just to challenge yourself and to make up your own mind about it. Even its detractors would have to agree that watching The Return is a unique experience.
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FWWM is essential Twin Peaks viewing, IMO. As for The Return, I definitely think you should watch it. Like a lot of these "should I watch" threads, it feels like you're almost looking for a guarantee that you're going to like it. I honestly don't know if you'll like it or not. You may hate it, or you may love it. But you should most certainly watch it, because there's really never been anything like it on TV before.
You need to take the occasional flyer on stuff like this. It's OK if you watch or read something and end up not liking it. The world will continue to spin on.
You need to take the occasional flyer on stuff like this. It's OK if you watch or read something and end up not liking it. The world will continue to spin on.
Being eaten alive by a giraffe is also a unique experience. I'm not sure I'd recommend it to everyone though.
Yeah, 'The Return' is not a complete waste of celluloid (hard drive space?), but my willingness to be honest and not just shit all over 'The Return' does not completely negate the recommendations to possibly skip 'The Return'.
If someone watches S1/S2/FWWM and is mostly invested in having questions answered or plots and characters progressed further, they should not watch 'The Return' immediately, as it does not deliver that. If someone gets through S1/S2/FWWM and just loves the David Lynch weirdness, then yeah -- sure -- watch 'The Return'.
It is not fair to recommend 'The Return' without disclosure to new fans. It is not something everyone should watch, as it has the very real possibility of ruining 'Twin Peaks' for people, as it is just so different than what came before.
There seems to be a consensus among the Twin Peaks 'fans' (those whom remain on the 'The Return' battlefield still fighting) that everyone loves 'The Return', and it perfectly complements the rest of 'Twin Peaks'. That is not a settled question, and it does a disservice to new fans watching Twin Peaks to just straight lie by omission to them about the value of 'The Return'.