Yup. There's more than just what's on screen. It's also what's going on behind it. The stories being told, who is making them, and how they are made are all very important.
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Black Panther and the Importance of Inclusion
- Thread starter Thatonedice1
- Start date
I was more just poking fun at the "vast" part since 5 out X films is still a very small minority. But, you're right. You cant rip black from black panther. Although, while Spawn/Blade could've been a CGI dolphin. I wouldn't downplay having them be black either if we are talking the historical context or Black nerdom. Can't snub the foreplay that got us to this fucking.
Oh true, my bad. I've pretty much turned my sarcasm meter off on this forum going forward. lol
Yeah it was cool to see Blade and Spawn at their respective times. But I'm stunned that people continue to use those to down play BP. It's like, have y'all seen those films?
For all of that, people are better off saying "Roots had an almost all black cast! I don't see y'all celebrating that"
Lol
This is a picture I took of the Black Panther promotional stand at the theaters:
I remember when I first saw it, I got literal chills all over my body seeing all those black faces prominently on display. Also, this was my first time hearing about the Black Panther movie, so I was thoroughly hyped to see it.
I remember when I first saw it, I got literal chills all over my body seeing all those black faces prominently on display. Also, this was my first time hearing about the Black Panther movie, so I was thoroughly hyped to see it.
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In that case you probably have to give it up to Robert Townsend and Damon Wayans for Meteor Man and Blankman first. They even predate any of the the black comic character's film adaptations.
I'm still waiting for a Hispanic superhero myself.
But yeah, the representation in BP was great. I tend to think the movie itself is a tad overrated, but I'd still put in my Top 10 MCU movies.
The social media reactions have been glorious to read.
What's the next spot on the bingo card?
But yeah, the representation in BP was great. I tend to think the movie itself is a tad overrated, but I'd still put in my Top 10 MCU movies.
The social media reactions have been glorious to read.
What's the next spot on the bingo card?
It was a great movie but I found the americocentrism kind of off putting in a movie that was supposedly breaking diversity barriers. I know it is a film made for western audiences, but when it puports to be on a global scale and is based in Africa (albeit an imaginary nation) it should probably have paid more than lip service to the plight of black Africans.
People mentioning Blade and Spawn in relation to Black Panther have really given me a deeper understanding of Dwayne Mcduffie's "Rule of three."
People view those films as "black movies" simply because the leads are black. But a majority of the cast is white and in Spawn's case he is either in costume or his burns mask his race.
Other than the leads, there is nothing inherently black about these films. There is no mention of the black experience or being black and only time race is mentioned is when a white character makes a racist quip "Do you blush." To the folks who compare those movies to Black Panther, there is no difference because all the see is the black lead and to them that equals a "black movie." I guess it really should be the "Rule of one."
People view those films as "black movies" simply because the leads are black. But a majority of the cast is white and in Spawn's case he is either in costume or his burns mask his race.
Other than the leads, there is nothing inherently black about these films. There is no mention of the black experience or being black and only time race is mentioned is when a white character makes a racist quip "Do you blush." To the folks who compare those movies to Black Panther, there is no difference because all the see is the black lead and to them that equals a "black movie." I guess it really should be the "Rule of one."
OP, I was legit moved to tears. Same with several further replies. Myself, I'm so white I damn near glow, but fuck if I didn't recognize the problems with Hollywood and other entertainment industries for a long, long time and wish something could be done about it. We've still got a ways to go, especially with all the bigoted assholes prowling the net like vultures. But the representation we're beginning to see in certain vital sectors makes me very happy. We need more, more, more. But just the fact that Black Panther was even made... I mean hell.
I'm not really the biggest comic book superhero fan, to be honest, but who cares? I cheered when this movie came out and I made sure to watch it. It's a milestone in our society and its importance cannot be overstated.
All the best for a better world, y'all.
I'm not really the biggest comic book superhero fan, to be honest, but who cares? I cheered when this movie came out and I made sure to watch it. It's a milestone in our society and its importance cannot be overstated.
All the best for a better world, y'all.
User Banned (3 days): Thread derailment
Overrated✔
The thread is proceeding exactly as i have foreseen.
Do you ever get out of breath blowing on that whistle of yours ?
The thread is proceeding exactly as i have foreseen.
What's that !? is that a whistle i hear ?!?!?
Blade has nothing to do with afrofuturism. But then you already knew that, didn't you.
Do you ever get out of breath blowing on that whistle of yours ?
Except those films are made by the blacks. So they don't count as real movies.
I'm sure it does mean a lot, and I'm very glad it does. Doesn't mean I'm not allowed to hate on it though. (I don't, but I do find it a mid-tier MCU movie.)
Anything to introduce more and more people into the world of comics is great. I loved seeing the Father/Daughter pics and videos of little kids getting super excited for Wonder Woman too. Marvel's supposed to be doing a Miss Marvel movie with Kamala Khan too, right?
They have a serious opportunity to do Blue Beetle or even a Robbie Reyes Ghost Rider (I know AoS)
That's what excited me alot about BP, is that this proves all the business talking points wrong and should open the doors for more diverse stories.
I want to see more Latino stories, more Asian stories, etc. I want to see everyone's stories from their backgrounds and perspectives.
It's simply not enough to put a minority in vanilla white role and say the work is done. Let's tailor perspectives around race and what things mean to these characters. Makes the art much more meaningful
If i was , i wouldn't be seeing the same tired old code words. Would i ?
Dude you came into what what's a positive thread with a beautiful and heartfelt OP, didn't bother sparing a single word towards him, haven't said a word about the film, and are just wanting to pick a fight with 2 or 3 posters.
is this one of those gentle scoldings about tone?
seems like it is...
I wasn't trying to derail convo though, if you're really that mad someone thinks the movie is overrated, catch a grip.
Sadly as I predicted.
Knock it off.
Not trying?
Threads got nothing to do with how you feel about how rated the movie is.
Still had to drop your nonsense anyway. Youd make a great window being so see through.
Another demographic that Black Panther promotes: science geeks that actually have social skills!
I said I agreed with the OP though lmfao, yall are looking for problems were there aren't any.
We on a nerd forum. Me typing the word fuck ain't a problem.
I just felt your overrated comment wasn't necessary. I can't get through a BP thread without seeing the shit in some fashion.
"BP is overrated" is racist? FOH.
It's happened in other threads. Not happening in this one. You're the one making this thread about that garbage and still haven't said anything about the OP or your thoughts on the movie.
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What are you even talking about? Also you really shouldn't be that offended that people have an opinion on the movie, it's kind of absurd.
You said I'm looking for problems. I telling you, just because I use profanity, don't flatter yourself to the idea that I think about you in my daily life. This a website. Learn what an actual problem is.
What does overrated even mean? It's a fluff word to say you didn't like it but everyone else did. Gives off an air that you have better taste than others usually.
Comes up quite frequently as result of this being a successful black venture. Very popular in the last BP thread too. I mean, I would think you would understand why people would look at you funny for posting that. Don't be surprised now.
I mostly have a problem with side lining and make the side characters boring or useless. Finn would have appealed to me more if he and Rey went their separate ways and experience different things, but Finn was force sensitive and used his training to develop his skill further.
I just read up on blue Marvel's powers and man, he sounds so OP. I had no idea this guy even existed wow.
It's overrated because it means so much to certain groups of people not because of the quality of its content but because it's content serves a group that is very underserved. If it was a white cast movie about white Sweden deciding to help the world it would be viewed as incredibly mediocre.
That's what it means.
It's only good because of all the black people in it, Eh?
Warrior Falls celebration still chokes me up. That black joy, the beauty on display...so powerful.
If that's what you got out of my post you're not listening to what I said.
The action in BP is very poor maybe the weakest in any marvel film. The CGI is very poor. The villains abilities are a mirror of the hero and makes a nonsensical decision at the end. The plot is serviceable but really just exists to introduce wakanda as a stage for avengers 3. If you take out the themes and black cast the film is bottom tier marvel for me personally.
So the writing of the film does not far supercede it's peers?
The costume design?
The general cinematography?
This movie is only percieved good because there are alot of black people in it?
Do any of you all know how to criticize film? Do you realize that this film can't ever be about White Sweden saving the world because you are robbing it of its entire identity in order for that to be possible?
Please for the love of God do not say Dark Knight has better writing.
Nah, I read it. That's what you said.
Your example is fucking stupid since we have a ton of marvel movies with white casts that a fuckton of people love.
I'm totally lost. You think white casts make people love movies? So what happened to Thor 2? Or Justice League? This emotional response to my post is exactly why BP is over rated. People are extremely emotionally attached to it for what it means to them personally. It's understandable and yet also proves my point.
Edit: this will be my last post I don't want to thread derail anymore.
Literally the title of this thread disproves your thesis here. So do plenty of posts in this thread alone. It means a lot to people just for its inclusion and topics.
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You think black casts make people love movies?
Nothing emotional in my post, fam, lol.
Since you missed the point: black panther is a marvel movie. Lots of people love marvel movies and race has had nothing to do with the quality of the movies until you start taking about the one with all the black people. Suddenly it's overrated and people are just asking questions even though it's a single movie in a string of multi-billion dollar features.
Yeah I wish they had gone all-black. What is so refreshing about Pixar's Coco is how damn brown it is: not a single white person in sight. And that's to be expected, considering the film's setting. So why can't we expect the same for Black Panther? Regardless, it's a good film.
what are you going on about?
I just didn't think the movie was that good, and you're sitting here going on about how I think you think about me in your daily life and how this is because it's a successful black venture or some mess. I thought it was like okay at best, not because of the race of the cast, because the movie was okay at best overall. it's really not that deep, but if you wanna tell yourself otherwise you go on ahead I guess.
You do know that PLENTY of white people also love this film, right? Critical acclaim across the board, not just black people. It just overachieved with black people. It means MORE for them. But most empathetic folks of other ethnicities get it and can rock with it. Hell, there were a few in this very thread who spoke to that very same sentiment.
And about your horrible Sweden example: That simply wouldn't happen. Context matters. Sweden has a vastly different history than a humongous continent like Africa. It wouldn't occur to any one writing a story about Sweden to use the exact same story as Black Panther, as the history doesn't match.
But WHY would you do that? The themes are an integral part of the movie. Everything was written the way it was to make sure the themes can shine through.
We can argue about the special effects (I think most people really exaggerate how bad the effects are), same for the action itself (and if you think it's the worst for all of the MCU films, you haven't seen all of the MCU films) The villain's plan, while making total sense in the context of the film, I can understand if someone don't like it (though we're not really supposed to like it anyway, but I digress). But the plot is wrapped up with the themes and they both compliment each other in ways that I wouldn't change a thing. It's what it needed to be.
This is a movie that talks about the black struggle in the Diaspora, and how we can somewhat feel abandoned by our fellow Africans. It speaks to the anger that a lot of African Americans have about our lot in life, and Killmonger voices those frustrations in a way I never thought a DISNEY movie of all things would do. It talks about how we need to take care of one another, even if we have been separated by an ocean. It talks about the fact that isolationism, while on the surface sounds good, can actually cause more harm than good, at least over time.
There's more, but I've hit all the major points.
These aren't the subtext either; they're the text. They are explicitly there, either shown or verbalized. This is a part of the movie. Saying "The movie sucks if you take away all of the meaning and thought put behind it" means you want to grade the movie on some ludicrous curve, instead of grading it based on what it actually is. The fact that it's an almost all-black film also had to be, cause the subject matter of the film demanded it. So again, taking it away to grade it is foolish and unfair. They didn't do those things to "cheat" or win some sort of diversity points; they had something to say, and they said it. Brilliantly, I might add.
Two things:
1. Everett Ross was a character from the Black Panther comics, so they're using characters from his mythos, which is the correct choice, I would say. He is a subversion of the trope where you have a character, normally the protagonist (and normally white) who is the fish-out-of-water being introduced into the new/undiscovered world or society the story takes place in. You know, the character that is usually the avatar for the audience. But in this movie, he keeps getting punked. They keep showing how unimportant he really is to everything that's going on. Normally he'd end up being the hero, saving the savages and what not. Not here.
They used him brilliantly.
2. Coco took place in a small village in Mexico, so it would make sense that no foreigners showed up. Black Panther, while mostly taking place in Wakanda, did some globe-trotting, so having a few white characters (in this case, the 'Tolkien White Guys') more than makes sense.
User banned (5 days) for trolling, accumulated infractions.
Try again, lmfao.
Black Panther and the importance of having it directed by a black man in his 30s and written by him and another. Then having a studio that isn't afraid of having a blockbuster be told through that POV.
Marvel stuff is hit or miss for me but Black Panther is the only time I've ever been moved emotionally by one of those films (and it happened twice) and I respect the hell out of Disney for allowing that movie to be so uncompromised in it's vision.
I'm happy for you OP that you got to have that experience. It's something I've been able to take for granted my entire life.
Marvel stuff is hit or miss for me but Black Panther is the only time I've ever been moved emotionally by one of those films (and it happened twice) and I respect the hell out of Disney for allowing that movie to be so uncompromised in it's vision.
I'm happy for you OP that you got to have that experience. It's something I've been able to take for granted my entire life.
I'm not black so obviously I can't feel importance of the movie for you, but aftet interview with Scarlett Johansson (I think?) I understand it better. She said how important for black children to have their own hero, especially when almost EVERY other hero is white. So I find movie and main hero really important indeed.
However I think people's posession with Killmonger is dangerous. I said that in another thread, and I repeat - Killmonger is racist piece of shit who wanted to kill people and their kids basing on skin color. But nobody seem to remember these words - its this quote about burying that everyone knows. And it looks pretty much like radicalisation to me - like "yeah, he is literally killer, he is insane, but after these words about ocean I cried a bit, so he did nothing wrong!".
However I think people's posession with Killmonger is dangerous. I said that in another thread, and I repeat - Killmonger is racist piece of shit who wanted to kill people and their kids basing on skin color. But nobody seem to remember these words - its this quote about burying that everyone knows. And it looks pretty much like radicalisation to me - like "yeah, he is literally killer, he is insane, but after these words about ocean I cried a bit, so he did nothing wrong!".
Of all the people on Earth, black people seems to be the ones who truly show love for anyone they meet. They are always welcoming while others treat them as if they shouldn't even exist and yet they keep treating others with kindness, only to be repaid with them being killed and dehumanized.
The world would have been a very different place if all those missionaries and explorers who landed on African shores were slaughtered as soon as they set a foot in the sand.
The world would have been a very different place if all those missionaries and explorers who landed on African shores were slaughtered as soon as they set a foot in the sand.
He stopped part killmonger's main agenda.
story of pretty much all indigenous peoples that Columbus stuff for instance is infuriating.
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Can you post the exact quote where Killmonger made racist statements or him talking about killing people and kids based on their skin color?
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So have you actually seen the movie or are you just basing your statements on things you've read about it?
honestly I just wish he showed a little regret over killing black people. Cause he was talking the talk but he clearly didn't care.