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EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,029
Here's how IPs that were fully funded and published exclusively by a console manufacturer wind up being ported to other platforms.
Let me tell you, here's the trick, in all its mystery and magnificence.
Are you ready?

They let it.

It's that simple folks. A conversation is had and a decision is made. That decision is more often than not ''no, this is ours, go away''. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes the reasoning is a bit all over the shop and the specifics are a bit complicated, but that's all it takes. Really, that's it. The company that owns the property says ''okay you can do this now''.

If Platinum proposed to Nintendo that they should fund The Wonderful 101 on Switch, and Nintendo gave them a hard no, a conversation opened up on what else could be done.
Nintendo is beholden to one company and one company only; themselves. Maybe they care so much about it despite also not giving a fuck that they say ''hey you guys can find a way to publish it to Switch BUT ONLY SWITCH BECAUSE WE OWN IT, but we wont pay for it soz''. Or maybe they say ''yeah cool whatever we'll sign the rights back over to you because we see exactly big fat fucking zero value in this franchise and literally don't give a shit about even owning it any more''.
Anything is possible. Literally anything. Because Nintendo own it, and they dictate what is possible. They can keep it, they can give some wiggle room, or they can fuck the entire thing off into the aether.

You see Mario and Mario Kart on mobile devices not owned by Nintendo because they, the owners of the IPs, decided to do so.
Nintendo could stick Breath of the Wild on PC if they wanted to.
Nitnendo could talk to Sony and have Naughty Dog make Super Mario Sunshine 2 exclusively for PlayStation 5, if they wanted to.

They wont, obviously, because that's dumb as shit. But you get my point. If Nintendo owns a contract or license or whatever else it doesn't guarantee anything other than their ability to make the final call. More often than not yes, that final call is the property owner holding all the cards and letting nothing go. But they're just as within their power to relinquish authority, too. Because they have the ability to do so.

As for Bayonetta? Since people still don't seem to fucking get it.
Bayonetta, the intellectual property, is owned (AFAIK) by SEGA. SEGA own it because they funded the first game. They technically hold the license 'to the franchise'.
This does not necessarily give SEGA totalitarian control over literally every little fucking thing made under the franchise. But it does make them the gatekeeper.
Bayonetta 1 belongs to them. They can do whatever the fuck they want with it.
Bayonetta 2 was going to belong to them. But they pulled the plug mid development. Nintendo cleaned up the rest of the dev and published it. Bayonetta 2 is co-owned, unless something in the contract specifies otherwise.
Bayoentta 3 is owned by Nintendo. Because they're funding the entire goddamn thing, not like Bayonetta 2 that was partially funded by SEGA.
SEGA still owns the IP. But this does not mean SEGA can go ''fuck you Nintendo Bayonetta 3 is now on Stadia''. Because Nintendo own Bayonetta 3, the product in of itself.
SEGA can however go ''we're funding Bayonetta 4 developed by Kojima Productions for Stadia'', if they really want to, unless I'm missing something in the IP ownership.

So yeah, you could get Bayonetta 2 and 3 on PC, Xbox, and PlayStation. It's absolutely possible. Send an email to [email protected], or [email protected] for the US branch, and see if they feel like permitting it.

And are still blocked on Mind-Twitter by Kamiya's brain inside a robot.

''Ask Your Mum'', the national anthem for New Mankind.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
Nintendo has/had an even bigger stake in W101.

Nintendo might have opened Pandora's box though. They have tons of IPs shared with independent companies, up to and including Fire Emblem and Pokemon.
Errr no Pandora's box has been opened because the sole reason why those games aren't on other platforms are because Nintendo has the final say there's no soft gentlemen agreements going on here. If other independents asked about this if Nintendo doesn't want ports they'll just say no.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Sad days though, I could see it a near million seller on the switch exclusive with good marketing. Making it possible for a sequel in the future. But multiplatform is the IPs dead sentence (hopefully, if at the end releases multiplatform, Im totally wrong and have to eat my words). No smash future cameos, no sequel, no anything. But seems that Nintendo dont really want an exclusive port, as much as they are actually going to sell the rights, so if multiplatform at least I hope it looks amazing on PC lol
i really don't think it had any chance of doing 1 mil on switch even with nintendo's marketing. it might have done decently, but 1 mil is way to much for what it is.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,683
Nintendo produced LCU. They "owned" it in the same way Nintendo "owns" Bayonetta 2 or SIE "owns" Marvel's Spider-Man. This wasn't just a 3rd party game they made a deal for (like Octopath or SFV), it's a 3rd party IP they licensed and made a game with.

I don't know how you've come to that conclusion.
TT games publishing, who owns the copyright for "Lego city Undercover" is a subsidiary of Warner Brother Interactive entertainment (also a videogame publisher)
They make nothing but multiplatform games, using a multi platform engine.

The game itself is fundamentally a re-skinned Lego Marvel Superheroes (which came out the same year)
Lego City Undercover became a multi platform game with no sign of any involvement from Nintendo after exactly 4 years.

So I believe it was a multiplatform game That they gave the keys to Nintendo (in exchange for $$$) for their new console, who had to deal with all of the distribution, support and marketing themselves. But it would 100% revert to TTP after a specified time
 
Last edited:

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,233
i really don't think it had any chance of doing 1 mil on switch even with nintendo's marketing. it might have done decently, but 1 mil is way to much for what it is.
Astral Chain did, so you never know. Though I think the push should also come in the form of a character in second season pass of smash to actually get there.
An Astral Chain character in smash would be also cool!
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
As for Bayonetta? Since people still don't seem to fucking get it.
Bayonetta, the intellectual property, is owned (AFAIK) by SEGA. SEGA own it because they funded the first game. They technically hold the license 'to the franchise'.
This does not necessarily give SEGA totalitarian control over literally every little fucking thing made under the franchise. But it does make them the gatekeeper.
Bayonetta 1 belongs to them. They can do whatever the fuck they want with it.
Bayonetta 2 was going to belong to them. But they pulled the plug mid development. Nintendo cleaned up the rest of the dev and published it. Bayonetta 2 is co-owned, unless something in the contract specifies otherwise.
Bayoentta 3 is owned by Nintendo. Because they're funding the entire goddamn thing, not like Bayonetta 2 that was partially funded by SEGA.
SEGA still owns the IP. But this does not mean SEGA can go ''fuck you Nintendo Bayonetta 3 is now on Stadia''. Because Nintendo own Bayonetta 3, the product in of itself.
SEGA can however go ''we're funding Bayonetta 4 developed by Kojima Productions for Stadia'', if they really want to, unless I'm missing something in the IP ownership.

So yeah, you could get Bayonetta 2 and 3 on PC, Xbox, and PlayStation. It's absolutely possible. Send an email to [email protected], or [email protected] for the US branch, and see if they feel like permitting it.
it really takes a special kind of obtuse person to not get this after it's been clarified time and time again for like 5 years, but here are.

Astral Chain did, so you never know. Though I think the push should also come in the form of a character in second season pass of smash to actually get there.
An Astral Chain character in smash would be also cool!
astral chain was an exciting new IP, W101 is... not that.
 

Clov

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,929
Here's how IPs that were fully funded and published exclusively by a console manufacturer wind up being ported to other platforms.
Let me tell you, here's the trick, in all its mystery and magnificence.
Are you ready?

They let it.

It's that simple folks. A conversation is had and a decision is made. That decision is more often than not ''no, this is ours, go away''. Sometimes it's not. Sometimes the reasoning is a bit all over the shop and the specifics are a bit complicated, but that's all it takes. Really, that's it. The company that owns the property says ''okay you can do this now''.

If Platinum proposed to Nintendo that they should fund The Wonderful 101 on Switch, and Nintendo gave them a hard no, a conversation opened up on what else could be done.
Nintendo is beholden to one company and one company only; themselves. Maybe they care so much about it despite also not giving a fuck that they say ''hey you guys can find a way to publish it to Switch BUT ONLY SWITCH BECAUSE WE OWN IT, but we wont pay for it soz''. Or maybe they say ''yeah cool whatever we'll sign the rights back over to you because we see exactly big fat fucking zero value in this franchise and literally don't give a shit about even owning it any more''.
Anything is possible. Literally anything. Because Nintendo own it, and they dictate what is possible. They can keep it, they can give some wiggle room, or they can fuck the entire thing off into the aether.

You see Mario and Mario Kart on mobile devices not owned by Nintendo because they, the owners of the IPs, decided to do so.
Nintendo could stick Breath of the Wild on PC if they wanted to.
Nitnendo could talk to Sony and have Naughty Dog make Super Mario Sunshine 2 exclusively for PlayStation 5, if they wanted to.

They wont, obviously, because that's dumb as shit. But you get my point. If Nintendo owns a contract or license or whatever else it doesn't guarantee anything other than their ability to make the final call. More often than not yes, that final call is the property owner holding all the cards and letting nothing go. But they're just as within their power to relinquish authority, too. Because they have the ability to do so.

As for Bayonetta? Since people still don't seem to fucking get it.
Bayonetta, the intellectual property, is owned (AFAIK) by SEGA. SEGA own it because they funded the first game. They technically hold the license 'to the franchise'.
This does not necessarily give SEGA totalitarian control over literally every little fucking thing made under the franchise. But it does make them the gatekeeper.
Bayonetta 1 belongs to them. They can do whatever the fuck they want with it.
Bayonetta 2 was going to belong to them. But they pulled the plug mid development. Nintendo cleaned up the rest of the dev and published it. Bayonetta 2 is co-owned, unless something in the contract specifies otherwise.
Bayoentta 3 is owned by Nintendo. Because they're funding the entire goddamn thing, not like Bayonetta 2 that was partially funded by SEGA.
SEGA still owns the IP. But this does not mean SEGA can go ''fuck you Nintendo Bayonetta 3 is now on Stadia''. Because Nintendo own Bayonetta 3, the product in of itself.
SEGA can however go ''we're funding Bayonetta 4 developed by Kojima Productions for Stadia'', if they really want to, unless I'm missing something in the IP ownership.

So yeah, you could get Bayonetta 2 and 3 on PC, Xbox, and PlayStation. It's absolutely possible. Send an email to [email protected], or [email protected] for the US branch, and see if they feel like permitting it.



''Ask Your Mum'', the national anthem for New Mankind.

I'm glad that this post is first on the page! Hopefully it clears stuff up for people.

Nonetheless, I'm surprised by this W101 news. I wonder what happened with it?
 

SPRidley

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,233
it really takes a special kind of obtuse person to not get this after it's been clarified time and time again for like 5 years, but here are.


astral chain was an exciting new IP, W101 is... not that.
The world doesnt deserve W101, is too good for it :(
Its my favourite Platinum game, as much as I love all the others.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,762
Nintendo not bothering to port W101 by themselves but likely paying for the port of the commercial flop that is Tokyo Mirage Sessions is quite something.

Then again W101 was on another stratospheric level of flop even.
Tokyo Mirage Sessions actually cracked like 100k I think. There's generally a pretty big market for JRPGs, TMS is just one of those games that came out extremely late in the life cycle of a console that was already limited in scope. Plus with the Persona / Fire Emblem hype still going strong and SMTV on the way, it made sense to port that one.

I don't even know if TW101 ever did more than 20-40k. The audience for that game is virtually non-existent, I fear it's too "complicated" for its own good. A Platinum-developed super hero game would probably be the hottest shit ever but the way that game did it is probably still one of their most divisive projects despite how fucking fantastic of a game it is.
 

Oregano

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,878
Errr no Pandora's box has been opened because the sole reason why those games aren't on other platforms are because Nintendo has the final say there's no soft gentlemen agreements going on here. If other independents asked about this if Nintendo doesn't want ports they'll just say no.

It could potentially strain relationships if they allow it for some and not others.
 

Velezcora

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Nov 16, 2017
3,124
Is Zhuge worried he'll become irrelevant if he doesn't throw fuel into the rumour mill?
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Nonetheless, I'm surprised by this W101 news. I wonder what happened with it?
apparently nintendo wasn't interested in funding a switch port but PG REALLY wanted it to happen, so they've worked out something with nintendo where they'll be funding and publishing the port themselves on switch (and seemingly other platforms).
 

Bonejack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,654
It could potentially strain relationships if they allow it for some and not others.

So what you're saying is we should wait for an official announcement instead of making assumptions of vague posts and tweets? Yeah i agree. ;]

Nintendo keeping the ownership but allowing a PC port is just as likely as P* buying the rights right now.

''Ask Your Mum'', the national anthem for New Mankind.

The constitution starts with the words "Next week, in brain-projected game magazines".
 

evilmonkey

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,481
Canada
I think the lack of a TW101 port has more to do with it being a game that was never that desirable to begin with. TMS at least has the benefit of being tied to a successful IP, while also giving Atlus the opportunity to release anything on the platform after almost 3 years.

It could also be that Nintendo doesn't want to release it as a simple port and wants new content added, and PG is taking their time with it. So far every port had new content.
 

EarthPainting

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,877
Town adjacent to Silent Hill
I don't know how you've come to that conclusion.
Telltale games publishing, who owns the copyright for "Lego city Undercover" is a subsidiary of Warner Brother Interactive entertainment (also a videogame publisher)
They make nothing but multiplatform games, using a multi platform engine.

The game itself is fundamentally a re-skinned Lego Marvel Superheroes (which came out the same year)
Lego City Undercover became a multi platform game with no sign of any involvement from Nintendo after exactly 4 years.

So I believe it was a multiplatform game That they gave the keys to Nintendo (in exchange for $$$) for their new console, who had to deal with all of the distribution, support and marketing themselves. But it would 100% revert to TTP after a specified time
Slight correction, TT Games and Telltale Games are two different companies.
 

Principate

Member
Oct 31, 2017
11,186
It could potentially strain relationships if they allow it for some and not others.
Just like it could have strained the relationship of refusing to port W101 despite Platinum being extremely interested in the idea. It's completely nothing, business wise there's no independent developer Nintendo has ties that they'd have no problems going there separate ways and the ones that are Nintendo has under lock and at multiple levels.
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
19,922
Finally the world can see Okami 2.

You're all gonna have fun in 2020
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,925
I don't know how you've come to that conclusion.
Telltale games publishing, who owns the copyright for "Lego city Undercover" is a subsidiary of Warner Brother Interactive entertainment (also a videogame publisher)
They make nothing but multiplatform games, using a multi platform engine.

The game itself is fundamentally a re-skinned Lego Marvel Superheroes (which came out the same year)
Lego City Undercover became a multi platform game with no sign of any involvement from Nintendo after exactly 4 years.

So I believe it was a multiplatform game That they gave the keys to Nintendo (in exchange for $$$) for their new console, who had to deal with all of the distribution, support and marketing themselves. But it would 100% revert to TTP after a specified time
You might be right, looking at the credits it seems like Nintendo's credited in more of a publisher role (although they also did localization and some QA) and based on the credits appears to be more a NOA driven joint. Nintendo also don't get the final production credits like they do on 1st party so it's not really equivalent to 1st party licensed games like Bayo 2/3 or Tetris 99 and may be more like their pickup deals with Octopath, DXM, etc.
 

NSESN

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,319
Does TW101 have any website? Can we look if Nintendo sold the rights anywhere?
 

PillFencer

Banned
Nov 15, 2018
2,431
Tokyo Mirage Sessions actually cracked like 100k I think. There's generally a pretty big market for JRPGs, TMS is just one of those games that came out extremely late in the life cycle of a console that was already limited in scope. Plus with the Persona / Fire Emblem hype still going strong and SMTV on the way, it made sense to port that one.

I don't even know if TW101 ever did more than 20-40k. The audience for that game is virtually non-existent, I fear it's too "complicated" for its own good. A Platinum-developed super hero game would probably be the hottest shit ever but the way that game did it is probably still one of their most divisive projects despite how fucking fantastic of a game it is.
TW101 sold 19.648 physical units in Japan as of January 3, 2016 (its initial shipment was 29.807 units)
TMS sold 55.387 physical units in Japan as of December 31, 2017 (its initial shipment was 54.693 units)
Source: Media Create
I don't know if there is data for other countries, maybe UK or USA?
 

9-Volt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,879
Hopefully this doesn't mean no Astral Chain sequel and that rumored Scalebound Switch revival. They could do both, do Nintendo only projects and next gen console games at the same time.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
Hopefully this doesn't mean no Astral Chain sequel and that rumored Scalebound Switch revival. They could do both, do Nintendo only projects and next gen console games at the same time.
i can't imagine they'll stop working with nintendo. they're a big enough studio to handle multiple projects at once.
 

VKO-GFX

Member
Dec 19, 2017
282
I'm down for more W101. One of my favorite action games. I actually have over 101 hours in it.
 

lupinko

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,154
Don't want to get people's hopes up but Sega did sell back the Guilty Gear X/XX IP to ASW (it's weird but ASW didn't own this, they only owned the original GG hence the weird moba GG2 on 360 and why they started Blazblue). In addition to that, Sega also sold back the Rumble Fish IP back to Dimps. Which is how the NesicaxLive version of TRF2 is a thing.
 

Amnixia

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Jan 25, 2018
10,424
I love their action games, if they'd let me pick I would like to see a loot based ARPG with co-op.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,762
TW101 sold 19.648 physical units in Japan as of January 3, 2016 (its initial shipment was 29.807 units)
TMS sold 55.387 physical units in Japan as of December 31, 2017 (its initial shipment was 54.693 units)
Source: Media Create
I don't know if there is data for other countries, maybe UK or USA?
TMS apparently did 50k in its first week in the US. I don't think there were ever any TW101 numbers from anywhere outside of Japan but I do know it charted terribly (#22 in the UK).
 

Everywhere

Banned
Jun 12, 2019
2,104
Are they really going to do a W101 port lmao.

Honestly a waste of money and time, the game was SAD and it will BOMB again.

Wow.
 
Oct 25, 2017
34,786
So what we know...

The Wonderful 101 and Astral Chain are owned by Nintendo. Bayonetta is owned by Sega. Though the sequels are co-owned by Nintendo.
PlatinumGames entered a partnership with Tencent, and is hoping to self-publish future titles.
Rumors are that Nintendo is either selling the Wonderful 101 IP to Platinum or allowing some wiggle room to port elsewhere.

Really, best thing to do is wait.

Also, wow at all the people that clearly didn't play Wonderful 101 coming in and sneering. What is your problem?
 

Dark Cloud

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
61,087
the copyright notice won't be updated until a new announcement regarding the game. the current one on platinum's website says nintendo/platinum.
And even if they sell Wondeful 101 to Platinum is it a big deal? Hell it might be a great thing because Nintendo would've never touched the IP again. With Platinum having it they might make sequels
 

Deleted member 38706

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 19, 2018
924
TW101, Astral Chain, and Bayonetta 2 + 3 becoming multi-plat?! Woah! Amazing! This is great news to hear! I can't believe Nintendo would just do that! Does that mean Sony is next? Can't wait for stuff like Spider-Man (2018), Bloodborne, and Street Fighter V being ported to all platforms! Marvel, From, and Capcom getting back the IP for their games just like that? Man, next-gen is amazing! It's the end of an era! Woah!
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
That tells nothing because trademarks are updated constantly. You will have to wait for an official statement. But Shinobi and Zhuge's words are clear as can be, even if people choose not to believe it, I trust them over anyone else.
no one's saying it's not going to happen, we're just talking about who may or may not have the rights to the game now. this is not one of those cases like when you swear something isn't going to happen and then it gets announced a few days or weeks later.
 

Sagadego17

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,393
TW101, Astral Chain, and Bayonetta 2 + 3 becoming multi-plat?! Woah! Amazing! This is great news to hear! I can't believe Nintendo would just do that! Does that mean Sony is next? Can't wait for stuff like Spider-Man (2018), Bloodborne, and Street Fighter V being ported to all platforms! Marvel, From, and Capcom getting back the IP for their games just like that? Man, next-gen is amazing! It's the end of an era! Woah!
what the fuck are babbling about?!
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
TW101, Astral Chain, and Bayonetta 2 + 3 becoming multi-plat?! Woah! Amazing! This is great news to hear! I can't believe Nintendo would just do that! Does that mean Sony is next? Can't wait for stuff like Spider-Man (2018), Bloodborne, and Street Fighter V being ported to all platforms! Marvel, From, and Capcom getting back the IP for their games just like that? Man, next-gen is amazing! It's the end of an era! Woah!
are you ok?
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,308
That tells nothing because trademarks are updated constantly. You will have to wait for an official statement. But Shinobi and Zhuge's words are clear as can be, even if people choose not to believe it, I trust them over anyone else.


???
What words ? Genuine question here, I'm not trying to "gotcha" you, I just have missed that.