Zen Studios announces "next-generation" Pinball FX, due in 2021 (UP: PS5/XSX/NSW/EGS, have to rebuy tables)

[Deleted member 51691]

Zen's most ambitious pinball project to date, Pinball FX will introduce Pinball Royale, a new multiplayer action mode incorporating frantic battle royale-style gameplay. The game will also feature new challenge modes, a clan system, enhanced visuals, and more. Leagues, tournaments and competitive play are being revamped to bring the community together in unique ways, and new live events and seasonal content will mean there's always something exciting going on. In addition, Zen will introduce original tables featuring brand-new IPs set to be revealed as launch approaches.

The Pinball FX series first launched in 2007 on Xbox LIVE Arcade and has become the No. 1 brand in digital pinball with an extensive library of pinball tables based on Marvel, Star Wars, Jurassic Park, Back to the Future, DOOM, Williams Bally, Family Guy, and more. At the heart of the franchise is an amazing community of passionate players, whose input, ideas and contributions have helped shape the Pinball FX experience for nearly 15 years.

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FWIW, they did say that tables in the new platform will be retrofit with their realistic Williams physics engine among the other upgrades.

That does require a lot of development work that may not be apparent to casual pinball player.

It's still unfortunate, but I actually trust that this is not a blatant cash grab when you factor in potential licensing quirks and it being a fairly niche genre.

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[SoH]

Pinball Royale? Hmmm. hmmm.

 

[Max|Payne]

Raytraced balls.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Hmmm. Not much of a teaser.

They've been good about letting you carry over your purchases thus far. Unfortunately, I have a feeing this is not going to be on Switch and will focus on the new gen and I don't own nearly as many tables on my PS4 :(

Mobile never even got the PBFX3 update. Also, please bring Marvel to Switch!

 

[dogbox]

Intriguing! I am just getting into Zen's stuff after years on and off w/ Pinball Arcade, the live event tease sounds neat

 

[TheGhost]

Sounds great but try as I have, I just can't convert my love for pinball into a controller.

 

[ghostcrew]

Hoping for carry-over of DLC... as I own an absolute shit load of Pinball FX tables.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Sounds great but try as I have, I just can't convert my love for pinball into a controller.

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Not my pic but I can attest that a modded arcade stick with side buttons for pinball makes a huge difference in how it feels to play.

TATE/Vertical mode, which is available on the Switch, Vita, PC and mobile versions is also a big improvement thanks to the better viewing angle.

 

[Dice]

I might need this, the hours I put into pinball rivals my game-games.

 

[TheGhost]

Not my pic but I can attest that a modded arcade stick with side buttons for pinball makes a huge difference in how it feels to play.

TATE/Vertical mode, which is available on the Switch, Vita, PC and mobile versions is also a big improvement thanks to the better viewing angle.

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I was thinking that, if I can just have a box with side buttons it would make a difference.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I was thinking that, if I can just have a box with side buttons it would make a difference.

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You still need a way to navigate the menus and pull the plunger and nudge the table and all that so a full arcade stick is actually what you want, even if the components outside of the side buttons you add are cheap.

the one i made was easy enough to put together. I just dremel'd two holes in the side of a Mad Catz stick, inserted the buttons and wired them to two of the existing button terminals (effectively making doubles for the same input). Took less than an hour.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Just gimme Black Knight 2000 already! Lol

I wonder what new IPs they're going to do. I'd love it if, in addition to original tables, they also ported some modern pins. I'd love to try the Stranger Things table!

Raytraced balls.

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You joke, but I have a complete Pinball FX3 collection on PC and I just got my RTX 3080 this week. I think RT pinball would look awesome, and run relatively well as there's not that much dynamic action to calculate on a table.

It'd be a superfluous feature, no doubt, but I'd be all for it.

 

[totofogo]

Exciting, but the font choices in that trailer are atrocious lol

 

[Infernostew]

Looking forward to it. I still have to grab some of those Williams packs as well.

 

[ascii42]

You joke, but I have a complete Pinball FX3 collection on PC and I just got my RTX 3080 this week. I think RT pinball would look awesome, and run relatively well as there's not that much dynamic action to calculate on a table.

It'd be a superfluous feature, no doubt, but I'd be all for it.

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Yeah, I will say the improved lighting going from PS3 to PS4 on Pinball Arcade definitely added something.

 

[HotHamBoy]

You joke, but I have a complete Pinball FX3 collection on PC and I just got my RTX 3080 this week. I think RT pinball would look awesome, and run relatively well as there's not that much dynamic action to calculate on a table.

It'd be a superfluous feature, no doubt, but I'd be all for it.

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This will no doubt have a massive impact on the lighting of the table in general, creating far more realistic illumination from the lamps and more realistic materials - especially nice for their recreations of the Williams tables.

here's current PC Funhouse:

Real Funhouse:

the real big improvement should actually come from the upgraded physics

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

This will no doubt have a massive impact on the lighting of the table in general, creating far more realistic illumination from the lamps and more realistic materials - especially nice for their recreations of the Williams tables.

here's current PC Funhouse:

Real Funhouse:

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It's hard to do a one-to-one comparison with lighting though. For instance, the room in FX3 is very red and the brightness can be adjusted. This has the potential to greatly affect how everything looks -- depending on how their lighting engine works. Same with if they use Physically Based Rendering or not, etc. etc...

That's a long way of saying it can be really tough to say whether their current lighting is inaccurate based off a single comparison. But I agree there's always room to improve!

Edit: and physics improvements are welcome too! Although I do think they're currently in a pretty good spot, at least on the recreation pins. I can't easily go back to TPA. It feels off, not to mention the lighting on the ball looks super flat.

 

[HotHamBoy]

It's hard to do a one-to-one comparison with lighting though. For instance, the room in FX3 is very red and the brightness can be adjusted. This has the potential to greatly affect how everything looks -- depending on how their lighting engine works. Same with if they use Physically Based Rendering or not, etc. etc...

That's a long way of saying it can be really tough to say whether their current lighting is inaccurate based off a single comparison. But I agree there's always room to improve!

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Oh, it's as good as it can be right now, no doubt. One of the easy tells if you're comparing pics is the metal rail running across the table, PBFX3 version isn't reacting to any of the surrounding illumination sources.

 

[Garrison]

Not my pic but I can attest that a modded arcade stick with side buttons for pinball makes a huge difference in how it feels to play.

TATE/Vertical mode, which is available on the Switch, Vita, PC and mobile versions is also a big improvement thanks to the better viewing angle.

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Man, those switch screens and controller options look like they would also be great for some shootemups too.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Man, those switch screens and controller options look like they would also be great for some shootemups too.

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For sure. One of Switch's best "hidden" features.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

Sounds great but try as I have, I just can't convert my love for pinball into a controller.

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it's different for sure but haptics help out a lot for game feel. it's definitely in a completely different space than an actual table but it's still fun.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Oh, it's as good as it can be right now, no doubt. One of the easy tells if you're comparing pics is the metal rail running across the table, PBFX3 version isn't reacting to any of the surrounding illumination sources.

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This is true! RT would fix this. And because it's such a limited implementation, they could use all RT types -- shadows, global illumination, ambient occlusion etc.. It might be a neat demo for lower end RT-capable cards.

 

[furfoot]

VR?

 

[HotHamBoy]

Edit: and physics improvements are welcome too! Although I do think they're currently in a pretty good spot, at least on the recreation pins. I can't easily go back to TPA. It feels off, not to mention the lighting on the ball looks super flat.

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As someone who plays a lot of pinball in real life I think there's plenty of room for improvement. IRL physics are so complex and particular. But you're absolutely right that PBFX3's physics make The Pinball Arcade hard to come back to, which is a shame because they have about 75 pins that PBFX3 doesn't.

This is true! RT would fix this. And because it's such a limited implementation, they could use all RT types -- shadows, global illumination, ambient occlusion etc.. It might be a neat demo for lower end RT-capable cards.

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Yeah, I'm hoping the PS5 implementation is good!

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

As someone who plays a lot of pinball in real life I think there's plenty of room for improvement. IRL physics are so complex and particular. But you're absolutely tight that PBFX3's physics make The Pinball Arcade hard to come back to, which is a shame because they have about 75 pins that PBFX3 doesn't.

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Yeah, there's really only a couple publicly available pins in my podunk "city", so I pretty much never get to play real pinball. 😞

And tell me about it! I bought every Williams/Bally table from TPA when it was announced they'd lost the license. But after playing FX3 versions I already had on TPA, I realized how outdated TPA is.

 

[xir]

Raytraced balls.

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can you ratrace one element in a game?

like could demon's souls patch in just having player weapons raytraced?

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

Anyone else thinking the Dual Sense would be perfect for this? The triggers, specifically...

 

[Max|Payne]

can you ratrace one element in a game?

like could demon's souls patch in just having player weapons raytraced?

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Yes, it's very flexible that way.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

can you ratrace one element in a game?

like could demon's souls patch in just having player weapons raytraced?

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I mean, I'm no expert but I don't see a reason why devs couldn't just put RT reflections on a single object. After all, not every object in RT games reflects the world.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Yeah, there's really only a couple publicly available pins in my podunk "city", so I pretty much never get to play real pinball. 😞

And tell me about it! I bought every Williams/Bally table from TPA when it was announced they'd lost the license. But after playing FX3 versions I already had on TPA, I realized how outdated TPA is.

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I'd been buying all the TPA tables on iOS for years, have all 100, and have repurchased a bunch on other consoles. Hundreds of dollars worth of investment and they've given me no reason to continue playing them. Support was bad for years and then it just dried up entirely after they lost the license. I was shocked that they also completely gave up on the Stern license despite still having that and completely abandoned Stern Pinball Arcade.

i'll deal with Zen's silly censorship of the Williams tables over Farsight's garbage management and total lack of polish.

sucks not having real tables to play. I remember when Indianapolis had only like 3 just a few years ago. Now we have over a hundred and many more in surrounding areas. I just hope COVID doesn't wipe all the businesses out. Terrible hobby for a pandemic!

 

[Jedi2016]

Anyone else thinking the Dual Sense would be perfect for this? The triggers, specifically...

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For the launcher, maybe. But the buttons I'm familiar with are just simple digital on/off and don't have any kind of pressure or feedback. More like L1 and R1. The haptics could be pretty nice, though, feeling the ball bounce around the controller based on where it is on the table.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Anyone else thinking the Dual Sense would be perfect for this? The triggers, specifically...

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You absolutely don't want any button resistance when playing pinball.

hell, you don't even want to use analog triggers because of the throw. I always recommend the bumpers.

the HD rumble on Switch is okay. Sort of feels like the ball is rolling across something. I don't need it, though.

 

[CatAssTrophy]

For the launcher, maybe. But the buttons I'm familiar with are just simple digital on/off and don't have any kind of pressure or feedback. More like L1 and R1. The haptics could be pretty nice, though, feeling the ball bounce around the controller based on where it is on the table.

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Yeah I'm thinking the actuators could provide some nice feeling sensations when hitting the flippers, when the ball hits bumpers etc. and the controller speaker could output the sounds of that stuff, like the ball rolling around, "coins" dropping, etc.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Yeah I'm thinking the actuators could provide some nice feeling sensations when hitting the flippers, when the ball hits bumpers etc. and the controller speaker could output the sounds of that stuff, like the ball rolling around, "coins" dropping, etc.

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I'd be interested if they could really make me feel the terror of the ball bouncing off the slings

 

[Firmus_Anguis]

You absolutely don't want any button resistance when playing pinball.

hell, you don't even want to use analog triggers because of the throw. I always recommend the bumpers.

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I'm not saying there should be that kind of resistance either. I was thinking of the launcher, and then maybe some small sensations for the flippers, to simulate the feeling you get when playing real pinball. That slight rumble.

 

[HotHamBoy]

I'm not saying there should be that kind of resistance either. I was thinking of the launcher, and then maybe some small sensations for the flippers, to simulate the feeling you get when playing real pinball. That slight rumble.

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I think i get what you mean. What i really wish they could figure out is a more intuitive, precise and subtle way of nudging the ball. That's such a huge part of IRL play and the digital solutions are weak.

like, what if i could slap my palm against the side of the controller to cause a nudge from that direction? would feel like the real thing if it was subtle enough.

 

[Jedi2016]

I'm not saying there should be that kind of resistance either. I was thinking of the launcher, and then maybe some small sensations for the flippers, to simulate the feeling you get when playing real pinball. That slight rumble.

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We're definitely on the same page.. lol. ;)

And I will probably end up getting this on PS5, so I hope they can do something cool with it.

 

[F34R]

Well that was a pretty uninspiring "announcement".

 

[xir]

I mean, I'm no expert but I don't see a reason why devs couldn't just put RT reflections on a single object. After all, not every object in RT games reflects the world.

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would be cool if they cant rt the whole world do a specific thing maybe, imagine the rays hitting your swords, make it really stand out.
ray tracing only the ball would be cool in pinball

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

You absolutely don't want any button resistance when playing pinball.

hell, you don't even want to use analog triggers because of the throw. I always recommend the bumpers.

the HD rumble on Switch is okay. Sort of feels like the ball is rolling across something. I don't need it, though.

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I play with the triggers when I'm on PC. I know it's not ideal, but using the bumpers cramps my hands pretty quickly. =/

At least my SN30 Pro+ has pretty short throw on the triggers.

 

[Cugel]

i just want space cadet HD

 

[HotHamBoy]

I play with the triggers when I'm on PC. I know it's not ideal, but using the bumpers cramps my hands pretty quickly. =/

At least my SN30 Pro+ has pretty short throw on the triggers.

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Hey, whatever works for you!

I just tend to recommend folks try the bumpers since they usually default to the triggers.

 

[Vargavinter]

Still wish that DICE would release Pinball Dreams, Fantasies & Illusions for consols. Or that the exellent "Slam Tilt" for the Amiga got re-released.

 

[NewDust]

Currently eyeing the Williams collection for FX3. Let's hope for moving your previous bought tables forward. Though I don't think we'll know for sure before the sale is over.

And moderately pessimistic on it actually happening. At some point they want to sell those tables again.

 

[Wouwie]

Still wish that DICE would release Pinball Dreams, Fantasies & Illusions for consols. Or that the exellent "Slam Tilt" for the Amiga got re-released.

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I was thinking about this just now when seeing this thread. I used to love these Pinball games on my Amiga and also enjoyed playing on real tables. Since then, i've tried various modern pinball games on console but for some reason, i just don't like them, which is a shame. There never seems to be a camera angle that i'm completely satisfied with because most lack good and complete overview. It's weird.

 

[DyslexicAlucard]

Currently eyeing the Williams collection for FX3. Let's hope for moving your previous bought tables forward. Though I don't think we'll know for sure before the sale is over.

And moderately pessimistic on it actually happening. At some point they want to sell those tables again.

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I wouldn't be too pessimistic. Zen has been pretty good about moving tables forward, with limited exceptions. Plus, their pricing is more reasonable than TPA was.

 

[HMC]

Playing Zen pinball in 3D on a VT60 was amazing. Hope this new one does 3D also.

 

[Jay_AD]

I wouldn't be too pessimistic. Zen has been pretty good about moving tables forward, with limited exceptions. Plus, their pricing is more reasonable than TPA was.

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Yeah, the Williams stuff is definitely coming forward. Not doing that would burn all the bridges with the community. Same for most of the other tables. It's mostly been a few license edge cases when that couldn't happen, but I'd hope they secured their big prestige stuff pretty tight. They are not going to make us re-buy tables. That's not their MO.

 

[AgeEighty]

How are the physics in this series nowadays? I was pretty upset when FarSight lost the rights to all the Williams and Midway stuff because their game always seemed to have much better physics.

 

[HighFive]

How are the physics in this series nowadays? I was pretty upset when FarSight lost the rights to all the Williams and Midway stuff because their game always seemed to have much better physics.

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Physics of WMS tables are great, better than Farsight. There is no rurning back there. Its just that there is only like 17 tables so far? Its where Farsight seem faster to release table. But we got the virus so i guess scanning tables, getting them is more problematic, which is causing a delay