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[Zelda Dungeon] Diversity in Zelda: The Need for a Black Princess Zelda
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
It doesn't bother me if they were to make Zelda or Link black, but I think it would be far more interesting if they were to introduce a new character in a neighboring kingdom with a black warrior princess.
I feel it can be kind of weird to just take a character and change them though, Miles Morales is 1000% more interesting as a character than if they were just to make Peter Parker black, but Nick Fury is much better now that he is black. So it can work, I don't know.
I feel it can be kind of weird to just take a character and change them though, Miles Morales is 1000% more interesting as a character than if they were just to make Peter Parker black, but Nick Fury is much better now that he is black. So it can work, I don't know.
Yeah, never even thought about it until now, but since you got these long ass lineages of Zeldas, like, one king or queen of Hyrule marrying a black Hylian along the way should be obvious. You can do a black Link as well since he's like, basically a reincarnation or the person chosen to be the hero by the gods or whatever. Absolutely no reason to lock the Zelda characters into being white every game.
Why not. It does not matter what form Link, Zelda or Ganon take because they are all tied to the Tri-Force either way. I would welcome a black Zelda.
I think what they mean is that whenever this topic arises around other PoC groups it doesn't get half as many interactions or support (which, looking at Resetera and general social media, it's extremely on point with reality). That's why they make that point.
I do think however this thread is not the place for it, since the topic is specific to black women.
yes, but society can do both.
The issue I have with being against it, is that we know the privilege of having a legacy does in our capitalist society/market place and we know the privilege certain races have had in establishing "their" characters. I think the most efficient way to resolve race issues in our society is to do both.
The idea of being against something like this suggests to me that the person doesn't care about the current climate or can't accept the market realities. In any case, it's silly. Let's do both.
I think Zelda being black would be really nice tbh. Link too, but I think I'd only want black Link if they went back to the green tunic so he could fit in better in with the previous Links, otherwise he won't even look like Link anymore (assuming he actually looked black and not just Link but tanned). BotW Link looked ""fine"" without the tunic cause his appearance is super close to the other Links we had before, but a black one without the tunic would just look like a brand new character and at that point might as well just make Link completely customizable imo.
Also we know it would likely just be a one off and they would get to the usual or something different for the next games.
Thats what im personally more of a fan of new original characters that stand on their own and can built up their legacy.
Hell a company like Nintendo might introduce a Black Zelda while also introducing a weird gameplay gimmick and then never bother with a dark skinned princess because the game underperformed for whatever reason.
It sounds good in theory but its oft a be careful what you wish for situation, because inclusion of that kind without the right approach can be used as a scapegoat if thing dont turn out well.
There is so much that could be done.....
This is an interesting conversation, and I'm totally neutral on the answer to the main question. If every Zelda game going forward, all the characters were different races, fine by me. Literally doesn't matter to the gameplay of the games. But it does raise interesting questions, which POC in this thread have alluded or stated to, about re-coloring existing characters not being what diversity actually is.
Brings me back to something Toni Morrison talked about all the time -- that art (whether it's novels or, in this case, video games) is supposed to be a doorway, not a mirror. That art is supposed to transport you to new ideas, not simply reflect what you already know.
And finally, specific to Zelda... I have always thought about characters in the Zelda games as Japanese. Aside from the Gorons and other non-humanoid characters and groups, I always assumed Zelda and Link and Impa and other Hylians and Sheikah as Japanese... not white or caucasian or whatever. I mean, these games are developed almost exclusively by Japanese people.
So if they were to recreate the characters going forward as another Earth race (let's say Black) as a mode of diversification or representation... like, who would make that game? Black Japanese Nintendo staff? Outsource it to a team of Black developers at another company? And, if "representation" is the goal of this effort... would this Black Hylian culture have to represent Black American life? Or Black central African life? Or Black Caribbean life? What exactly does simply darkening the skin color of some of the characters of a Japanese game accomplish?
Brings me back to something Toni Morrison talked about all the time -- that art (whether it's novels or, in this case, video games) is supposed to be a doorway, not a mirror. That art is supposed to transport you to new ideas, not simply reflect what you already know.
And finally, specific to Zelda... I have always thought about characters in the Zelda games as Japanese. Aside from the Gorons and other non-humanoid characters and groups, I always assumed Zelda and Link and Impa and other Hylians and Sheikah as Japanese... not white or caucasian or whatever. I mean, these games are developed almost exclusively by Japanese people.
So if they were to recreate the characters going forward as another Earth race (let's say Black) as a mode of diversification or representation... like, who would make that game? Black Japanese Nintendo staff? Outsource it to a team of Black developers at another company? And, if "representation" is the goal of this effort... would this Black Hylian culture have to represent Black American life? Or Black central African life? Or Black Caribbean life? What exactly does simply darkening the skin color of some of the characters of a Japanese game accomplish?
That's what they're getting at though. People will come into a thread talking about an article specifically asking for more black rep, saying what about other minorities, when instead they could just simply make a thread on that if they wanted to.
Always kinda rubbed me the wrong way, because while obviously all minorities could use way more representation, sometimes it comes across as people implying the black community needs to "share the wealth". But the reality is that even though black people are doing increasingly better, we still have a long way to go in terms of representation in media, and we only got to where we are because we keep bringing it up.
I don't quite understand your argument here. Like will certain people turn their nose up at a game with a black lead? Ok. But why is that any reason not to make one anyway?
I don't know if those quotes you made all work as you say.
The way I see it, people who make excuses not to buy a game or watch a show/movie because they perceive it as for black people are going to have the same attitude about an established IP doing the same thing.There's no reason to concern yourself with them.
I think both our points still stand.
A thread about black representation is not the place to do whataboutism about representation for other ethnic minorities (not sure if that's the term I should use?). The thread is a topic about specifically black representation.
It is also true that most of the Internet cares way less and gives way less support and interactions to threads, tweets and voices from other minorities. Maybe because the Anglo culture that permeates Internet and products now, idk.
In any case, and back at topic at hand, seeing how the Zelda saga is literally about reincarnation, I am genuinely not sure of what problems could arise from this. Hell, you could do a new series so to speak with a new culture at the centre, not just the characters. Why not set the whole game inside and with elements of the black culture and do a series on it? Besides the unfortunate obvious rejection from a section of GamErs I can't see any other objections, as long as it's made respectfully.
User Banned (3 months): Dismissing concerns of representation in gaming across multiple posts, account in junior phase
I like Nintendo games because they don't attempt to make political statements in favor of or against anything.
What does that have to do with having a Person of Color lead?
Strong, strong disagree on this one. I mean I'd welcome a black Zelda with open arms, no problem at all, but the truth here is that black people don't need to be pandered to by re-coloring fictional characters by the multinational companies that own the IPs.
Black people don't need to receive validation from a bunch of middle-aged Japanese guys to be important. Black history is world history, and black culture is world culture. And just to make myself clear, this doesn't only apply to Black Americans.
Our society as a whole is 50 years behind where we should be on equality and civil rights. I do believe that entertainment media has the power to shape up the public discourse over those issues in meaningful ways, but arguing that black people need to see color-swapped fictional characters to not feel inferior is stupid, short-sighted and it only adds useless fluff to the discourse.
I'm not surprised that the author of the piece sounds confused, so confused as to concoct this embarrassing bullshit of a sentence:
"Zelda and Link always being portrayed as white suggests that only white people are capable of protecting the world and frankly that they rightfully control it".
When you think that's what the game is suggesting, you need to get off your computer and re-calibrate your entire shit.
Black people don't need to receive validation from a bunch of middle-aged Japanese guys to be important. Black history is world history, and black culture is world culture. And just to make myself clear, this doesn't only apply to Black Americans.
Our society as a whole is 50 years behind where we should be on equality and civil rights. I do believe that entertainment media has the power to shape up the public discourse over those issues in meaningful ways, but arguing that black people need to see color-swapped fictional characters to not feel inferior is stupid, short-sighted and it only adds useless fluff to the discourse.
I'm not surprised that the author of the piece sounds confused, so confused as to concoct this embarrassing bullshit of a sentence:
"Zelda and Link always being portrayed as white suggests that only white people are capable of protecting the world and frankly that they rightfully control it".
When you think that's what the game is suggesting, you need to get off your computer and re-calibrate your entire shit.
I know you typed a lot more, but I wanted to focus on this for a particular reason. Despite being the "default name", IIRC "Link" was chosen as the default name simply because the avatar was supposed to be a "link" between the player/gamer and the world you are exploring. It's only been in the latest games that they've started to give Link an actual personality (or try to) and make them their own character.
It would absolutely fit in the spirit of the game for "Link" to be whoever the player imagines them to be. Regardless of race, regardless of gender.
For some people, "This is a main character. They are black" is a political statement. There's a word for those people.
"Black people are just as valid as any other people" shouldn't be treated as a political statement, but the year is 2021 and here we fucking are.
What? How is this even political? A character's skin color has nothing to do with politics. Well, at least it shouldn't...
When your white heroes are constantly battling a dark-skinned, Arabic-themed villain who is destined to be evil and lose constantly, even when he might have a point sometimes, and on top of that people feel strangely attached to the heroes being white despite never actually providing a justification as to why this attachment is of the utmost importance, it is perfectly fine to say that the series is engaging in colorism, even if it's not consciously intended by Nintendo.
Yeah, sadly we're gonna stay with that boring Link for several years...
The lore of the Zelda universe doesn't present any reason why Zelda should be black in any game.
That being said, I would buy a Zelda game with black characters.
100% agreed.
Diversity isn't about recoloring your characters, FFS.
It's a different person pretty much everytime. So I'm not seeing a lore reason why she shouldn't be.
OP
OP
Link isn't Mexican and color swapping him brown to come from some Hylian ruins with faux Aztec aesthetics doesn't change that.
Nintendo needs the Disney Coco treatment for a new property.
Even Emperors New Grove was a step in the right direction.
Needs to be implemented from the ground up.
Except the Gerudos
I don't think introducing more skin tones necessitates bringing in cultural or political implications from real life. They could either add another new race/civilization, make the existing Hylian population more diverse, have Gerudos be less segregated from Hylians, etc. There's plenty of conceivable options.
It's not saying that directly but it is absolutely contributing to the larger trend in media that has these undertones. I'd argue the message is even worse than usual in Zelda because of the reincarnation/destiny aspect of the lore.
I wonder if people would get mad at super pale blond Ganondorf 🤔
That's a fair point. Like I already said, I'd buy such a Zelda game.
We already had Link in a game where you can put them in a cheerleader outfit or Zelda's dress and call them trans or NB and I've seen enough talk from friends to know some people did just that so sure why not. It's typically different Links and Zeldas in different versions of Hyrule so there's really no reason against it.
This is Nintendo, where light is always good and anything dark is evil. While everyone should be welcoming to this, there's an ice cubes chance in hell of it ever happening.
This why I took matters into my own hands during my first BOTW playthrough. Cus I know Nintendo would never give it to me.
Why does there need to be a reason, though. There's no lore reason Zelda has to be anything besides a princess, and even that, she sometimes isn't (see WW).
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you have ill intent, but you gotta look at what views led you to think that a character being black needs to have a lore reason.
Makes me think about what traits I really want in my Zelda characters. For Link, it's left-handedness. Ganondorf, I do like having red hair. But I think blonde would work too, even if many people would probably not recognize him at first. Which could be a plus for a big reveal.
Great point.
And it's somewhat strange to draw the line on racial representation with Zelda -- a series that has been quite clear on what color the villain and the sexualized are, consistently.
There doesn't need to be. Just like there isn't a reason why Zelda should be white.
You need to understand this.
I don't think anyone is here under the impression that it has a real chance of ever happening. And while that saddens me, what currently saddens me even more is all the excuses from actual posters as to why it can't happen. Exact same stuff I read in the threads discussing female Link lol
This why I took matters into my own hands during my first BOTW playthrough. Cus I know Nintendo would never give it to me.
Look at him. Beautiful.
That's really cool.This why I took matters into my own hands during my first BOTW playthrough. Cus I know Nintendo would never give it to me.
How is more representation a political stat... you know what, just continue and get yourself banned.