You know what, I think you put into words how I feel about this better than I could.
If we're gonna have a Black Zelda, I think the whole game should be steeped in Black culture. Maybe make it based off of certain Sub-Saharan African cultures.
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[Zelda Dungeon] Diversity in Zelda: The Need for a Black Princess Zelda
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
If we're gonna have a Black Zelda, I think the whole game should be steeped in Black culture. Maybe make it based off of certain Sub-Saharan African cultures.
I agree with those saying that new POC characters would be the most ideal, but would be great to see this too. Not to mention the series lore suiting itself perfectly to allow anybody to be Zelda or Link.
Do people just not understand the concept of reincarnation?
It's not just changing skin color on an established character. The character origin for Link and Zelda changes in damn near every game because they are new people taking that mantle. That is how you get swashbuckling Zelda riding high seas in one game and stoic princess trapped in Twilight in another. The concept of reincarnation offers a chance to change everything from family, culture, etc. It doesn't have to be just a re-skin.
It's not just changing skin color on an established character. The character origin for Link and Zelda changes in damn near every game because they are new people taking that mantle. That is how you get swashbuckling Zelda riding high seas in one game and stoic princess trapped in Twilight in another. The concept of reincarnation offers a chance to change everything from family, culture, etc. It doesn't have to be just a re-skin.
No one is asking for Nintendo to take Breath of the Wild Zelda and just paint her skin dark. We are asking Nintendo to make the next Zelda a woman of color with her own story and struggles.
If some people had their way in this thread there would have been no Miles Morales because he'd just be a palette swapped Spider Man.
If some people had their way in this thread there would have been no Miles Morales because he'd just be a palette swapped Spider Man.
I don't agree, I think they should make a new Princess and have her be a POC. Or even better, a black protagonist (boy or girl) that becomes the hero.
Let them have their own personality and story, instead of having to follow Zelda or Link's.
Let them have their own personality and story, instead of having to follow Zelda or Link's.
OP
OP
I mean, it would be effectively a new princess anyway. Most Zeldas are a reincarnation, a different person.
I agree with this. The idea of the lore is that the leads of each Zelda game are reincarnations of the bearers of Power, Wisdom and Courage. Technically this could manifest into anyone, but the games have stuck to specific character traits throughout the series. Which is essentially become the identity of the franchise.
Making ethnic changes for the argument of diversity in an existing series, is the wrong way to do it. Introduce those characters in the series, or create entirely an entirely new one. It's like hiring a black person in a company to meet your diversity quota.
But... we aren't talking about the exact same character changing their race (like Mario or Gordon Freeman). We are talking about the LoZ games, which almost every single time introduces new characters to play the role of the princess and hero, finally letting one of those roles be filled by a PoC.
Also, Gordon Freeman is a very interesting example because the latest HL game actually had a black female protagonist and it was kind of fantastic and universally praised.
They don't work on writing or character designs. They're more of a support studio for Zelda. Different directors and producers.
you shouldn't expect the same thing to happen again. There's a difference between Tetra and making a New Zelda go from Black to White. It can't happen like that again. The blowback will be too much, this is Zelda not Xenoblade.
OP
OP
Like I said...
- There's room for both.
- It's not like each Zelda is the exact same character every single time. Hell, there are probably only 3 games where we got the same Zelda that I can think of off the top of my head.
Until they regain their powers, physically they are different. But after they regain that power they are the exact same person. Lore wise.
She remembers her past life that is.
I feel is a legitimate concern, say if zelda is made a POC, what is stopping nintendo from making a plot point that when she uses hylia's power her appearance changes to match hylia's, it may start as small with just hair and eye color, but could also change to skin color. Nothing because the whole appearance changing trope is so prevalent in japanese media that it is cliche'd
she was one of the champions in BotW and controlled one of the Divine Beasts.
Even if they some how didn't recognize the problem with white washing...how could they do this to her on a sexual level?this is nintendo and they technically did it twice already
they can do it a third or forth time
it did happen again, just not in zelda
Like every single possible element became worse, it's like they set out to ruin her design, when she is the best designed Xeno character since Ellie or Shion.
I pray she comes back and they retcon her to being the much better design.
Yeah, I've seen that too. A pity. At the end I think the internet and Resetera are very anglo-centric so I think most people get used to it. Wish more different PoC voices were uplifted, but it seems like not as many people are interested in them.
In any case the thread is specifically about a black Zelda/Link and I would not like to derail that.
OP
OP
If you're referring to Wind Waker, Zelda becoming paler once her true self was revealed was already problematic.
because she isn't shion or elly but kos-mos and t-elos as one being, that's what the character references, not to mention they literally don't care that they sexualize their characters, they been sexualizing elly since xenogears, and they sexualized shion in 2 and 3. I've come to accept asking monolith to stop sexualizing is a fools errand. if a game is made by monolith or helped by monolith a female character is getting sexualized somewhere in it
In imagining more diverse incarnations of these characters I'm remembering the speculation / fan mock-ups of the ancient heroes from BoTW's tapestry:
I would go even further than these and make them even more visually distinct from their current counterparts.
Having the incarnations of these characters be different races and more diverse in appearance would be refreshing. Aside from direct sequels or prequels, the characters are already different from game to game. As far as I'm concerned, they've already done this with Impa, who I don't think was explicitly said to be Shiekah until Ocarina of Time.
The Princess Zelda from Zelda II was actually a different one from Zelda I, despite both games featuring the same Link. The Hero of Time reappears as the Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess and interacts with his descendant. They have the freedom to explore different iterations of these characters with the reincarnation explanation.
I would go even further than these and make them even more visually distinct from their current counterparts.
Having the incarnations of these characters be different races and more diverse in appearance would be refreshing. Aside from direct sequels or prequels, the characters are already different from game to game. As far as I'm concerned, they've already done this with Impa, who I don't think was explicitly said to be Shiekah until Ocarina of Time.
The Princess Zelda from Zelda II was actually a different one from Zelda I, despite both games featuring the same Link. The Hero of Time reappears as the Hero's Shade in Twilight Princess and interacts with his descendant. They have the freedom to explore different iterations of these characters with the reincarnation explanation.
As a Mexican American person I have always wanted more inclusion in media that didn't immediately default to landscaper/farm hand and gang banger/drug lord.
The one thing I've never asked for is the recoloring of existing characters. I don't think that X character that is a certain way should now be brown and proud. I want new characters to represent me.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I totally notice when hispanic/latin characters appear in games. I take even greater note when they are specifically culturally Mexican. A few notable games that crossed that line would be the Mass Effect series, Telltales the Walking Dead, Last of Us 2, and Cyberpunk.
The one thing I've never asked for is the recoloring of existing characters. I don't think that X character that is a certain way should now be brown and proud. I want new characters to represent me.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I totally notice when hispanic/latin characters appear in games. I take even greater note when they are specifically culturally Mexican. A few notable games that crossed that line would be the Mass Effect series, Telltales the Walking Dead, Last of Us 2, and Cyberpunk.
No. I mean every Zelda after they regain their powers it's like they regain the memories of their past life. They effectively are all the same person and can be a different form because of it.
They're Goddess Hylia physical form in the end.
You had a regal princess in one game with twilight and a pirate in another, a more involved princess in another game about a tablet and a princess who hid as a shadow in another game with a harp.
She is multiple forms physically and she is (her soul by lore) one person. She can be anything as shown.
I played 4 hours of X, and Elma was the one and only thing I enjoyed.
I'm glad I stopped before I experienced this nonsense....just yikes.
Brown guy here, agreed. Would rather have new characters as a means of representation and not just using existing characters.
you'd experience it in xenoblade 1 and 2, sharla and fiora are definitely sexualized so is seven.
As much as I love nintendo IPs , they are clearly stuck in the past regarding the inclusion of black characters. I am black and I always had conflicting feelings about Japanese games, anime and manga , because while I love them, they are clearly focused on Caucasians and Asian characters and some of them depict black characters in an explicitly racist way.
I think the problem is that is definitely sounds like that when the issue is being laser focused on the skin color of the protagonists rather than trying to look at the issue of race and representation holistically.
Wouldn't know I never played those. I lost interest when I saw a male lead followed by women in revealing clothes. Wasn't going back to that after Saga gave me Shion.
I bought X because of Elma and didn't make it very far (I was so out of the know I can't remember if I even knew you created a PC, last game I played was Saga from them, but I knew Blade had a main PC).
Not important though, what they did with Elma is disgusting and it should be retconned. Let her be an awesomely designed woman of color and not a weird KosMos expy.
Not the same thing really. "Spider-Man" is an identity which anyone can take up. This is why you can have multiple different Spider-People coexist in the same movie (not to mention the inter-dimensional stuff). Zelda can be reincarnated as anyone, but "Zelda" isn't an identity or a title that anyone in Hyrule can just decide to take on. Barring any inter-dimensional shenanigans, there can only be one Zelda at a time.
A Link with a Gerudo background is definitely an angle they could try, it'd be very interesting to see how they make it work and also, please, make him the first Link who talks, that'd make Link a proper character at last, might even turn him into the best iteration of the character, one who finally has a personality.
Resetera has made it clear many times that Asians don't deserve to have their voices uplifted or even heard here. It''s not about there being no interest, it's pointless.
Sorry for the off-topic post, but it needed to be said.
I think what I hate the most about these kinds of threads is they always end up just being a) people shutting down the idea of black "versions" of white characters entirely, but also b) people being dismissive of brown "versions" of characters as if there can only be white or black characters and nothing in between.
Like maybe Tetra is just tanned, but why can't we say she's brown? And why don't we? Just because she isn't a stereotype of brown people? Tetra has darker skin than a few of her pirate crew, so "she's tanned from being in the sun all the time" might be one reasoning for her skin tone but then why aren't all of her pirate friends also brown?
Like maybe Tetra is just tanned, but why can't we say she's brown? And why don't we? Just because she isn't a stereotype of brown people? Tetra has darker skin than a few of her pirate crew, so "she's tanned from being in the sun all the time" might be one reasoning for her skin tone but then why aren't all of her pirate friends also brown?
It's similar to how some creators queerbait or rewrite the past to be like "Oh, X was always gay/bi/trans etc." to make their property seem more inclusive than it actually is/was *glances at Dumbledore*
Just write some awesome LGBT+ folk in your works, it's not rocket science.
Link and Zelda are always going to be white and always going to basically look the same, with minor hair styling and hair color variations. People keep bringing up his they're reincarnated, but that's basically just an excuse to move around the timeline, not reincarnation where their "spirit" can be in anyone. All versions are still essentially treated as the same character
User warned: inappropriate whataboutism
No, make new characters.
Secondly, why is it always black vs. white? Where's my south east asian character (in virtually anything) especially as a good guy?
Secondly, why is it always black vs. white? Where's my south east asian character (in virtually anything) especially as a good guy?
All the games are standalone stories, I can't any reason why not.
Japanese games in general need more diversity (and less sexism).
Yes thank you! There are so many other races to consider. But I do agree with OP, the African ethnicity is woefully under-represented in Zelda.
Why don't they do an entire village based on these themes?
Japanese games in general need more diversity (and less sexism).
Yes thank you! There are so many other races to consider. But I do agree with OP, the African ethnicity is woefully under-represented in Zelda.
Why don't they do an entire village based on these themes?
OP
OP
Again, why not both? And there's room for other ethnicities to be represented as well.
And it took until 2019 for a mainline Animal Crossing game that allows us to choose skin colour.
Not sure what I think about Zelda being black, I don't play Zelda much and only recently started BOTW. I agree with the poster that mentioned doing the Black Panther approach of having new games and characters with their own lore and background.
I'm arab and this is so not the thread for this. And this goes for all the "why is it always white or black" posts.
they aren't going to and they made the story so it can't happen that way
that kos-mos expy is the real elma, the poc form is a robotic avatar she used based on her perception of human beauty that's really it in order to retcon it you would have to say her real body is also fake which they won't do, or some how make her go some kind of futuristic skin surgery which would also be problematic monolith made their bed and they must lay in it when x-2 comes out
I wouldn't be opposed. I'm a major proponent of playable Zelda already. It would make for a very powerful and prominent statement that you wouldn't quite get even with an original character/series. But I do understand the need/desire for original characters and how some might see this is as a color swap or such. For a lot of people Link and Zelda are singular characters, the whole reincarnation stuff does not factor in at all. Overall we really do need more prominent original Zelda characters that are black and non-white like Riju and Urbosa, as well as original games with black or other non-white characters as the leads. We can and should do all of the above as much as possible.
Why sometimes threads like this about blackness or anti-blackness always gets derail by non-black people being ''why is it always black''?
Well I thank you for taking the time to explain it.
Absolutely not the answer I want, but I guess that is okay s. I already skipped Blade 1/2 so I can continue to skip the rest of their games.
they won't do that considering how much no character botw link got praised
You kept pushing that point so i had to expand on it. If u agree with it, its all good.
Who is stopping other authors from writing similar articles regarding asian characters for example ? Hell you could be the one.
It often feels like whenever black people bring up issues or address something, instead of just being supportive because in the end its a similar cause towards a similar result of diversity its always...yeah but what about the 10 other races or minorities you didnt mention ?
Asking Black people to include other races in their fights is one thing, but asking black woman who already have enough on their plate to the same is a bit weird. You think anyone else but a Black Woman would even post this kind of article ? Thats not really a viewpoint that is being discussed unless its brought up my black people themselves.