[Zelda Dungeon] Diversity in Zelda: The Need for a Black Princess Zelda

[Sander VF]

I don't think there's any lore precluding a black Link or Zelda (not that Zelda lore is important enough to preclude anything, lol).

Someone correct me on my Zelda lore, but doesn't Link have "Spirit of the Hero", meaning he isn't blood-related to past Links? He can be reincarnated as any ethnicity. I'm not even sure he has to be a Hylian.

With Zelda it is actually passed down genetically, hence "Blood of the Goddess", but nothing stops black individuals from marrying into the royal family, thus producing a black Zelda.

 

[Nepenthe]

That's what I'm saying, there is more that can be done than just a race swap on established charachters and one of the things I would prefer would be the creation of new charachters that could build their own stories, legacies and fanbase.

It's not a either or situation for me, only saying what I would prefer when the article in the OP makes it seem that Zelda being black is needed to reach that diversity goal. It's one way of multiple but as said before there is no need to limit yourself to that way of thinking.

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I bet a dollar that if you asked the author, I'm sure she- a black woman- would not be adverse to original Nintendo IPs with black characters, just like no one else in this thread is. But she's a black woman deep in the Zelda community. Not sure why she can't make the case for a black Zelda without being construed as wanting nothing else.

 

[Terraforce]

It's less that Tetra/Zelda was proper representation & more of Nintendo feeling the need to lighten her skin the second her true identity was revealed. Hell, even her father was darker-skinned than what Zelda ended up being.

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Right?? So the King can be brown in some incarnations, but the moment it happens to anyone else then it's immersion breaking? lol what

Zelda and Link are literally among the only Nintendo characters you could pull this off with it making complete sense.

That's what I'm saying, there is more that can be done than just a race swap on established charachters and one of the things I would prefer would be the creation of new charachters that could build their own stories, legacies and fanbase.

It's not a either or situation for me, only saying what I would prefer when the article in the OP makes it seem that Zelda being black is needed to reach that diversity goal. It's one way of multiple but as said before there is no need to limit yourself to that way of thinking.

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But Link and Zelda both vastly change appearances in damn near every other game.

Hair color, eye color, height and weight changes? Sure no problem. But they get more melanin and it's breaking the canon? For goodness sakes, like OP said, the King is black in several incarnations. It's not as wild as you're making it out to be.

 

[zsidane]

I'm black and I just think no. This is not how diversity should be handled.

Stop with the painting existing characters to a different colour. That's not how it should be.

Black panther is the prime example of how it should be done a character with his own lore and origin not a recolouring of existing characters.

I definitely don't agree with this thread at all.

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Thanks for saying what I feel (I'm not black by the way).

Zelda represents somekind of European vision of the kingdoms. So it's natural they physicaly went for a white skin.

The kingdom of Hyrule has always had a diverse population, and one of them is the Gerudo.

This call for a "black" Zelda would have been understandable if the game/series could be labeled as "racist" or under representing "minorities". But the world doesn't revolve around the US, and where I come from, we don't have a problem as the US seems to have (and historicaly had) so maybe I'm not the best suited to understand this request. But as a gamer, I'm against it.

 

[That1GoodHunter]

The race bending argument is more complicated that some give it credit (or simpler, depending on your perspective). Truth be told, there is a (real shitty) reason why Pedro Pascal as Joel, or a theoretical Zendaya casting as Ariel, is seen as dream fan casting, yet Mahershala and Halley Bailey for the same characters would result in all hell breaking loose. Even though all those cases would be considered race bending.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Even the king is just "anime tanned", you can't really say he's Black

 

[Aprikurt]

Makes me think of how the end of Wind Waker has the king saying: hey, go off, form a new kingdom that's unique and original and doesn't have the baggage of the old Hyrule...

...and then for Spirit Tracks it's literally named Hyrule and everything looks/functions like regular Hyrule except there's trains now. Would have been a cool opportunity to create a new, unique Zelda world with, say, a Polynesian feel, and a Link and Zelda that reflect a non-European culture. But no.

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You're almost speaking as if Wind Waker had proper sequels instead of bastardised offshoots that don't deserve recognition....

 

[Neoxon]

Even the king is just "anime tanned", you can't really say he's Black

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Again, that was never my argument. The issue was Nintendo's general need to make Zelda more pale, as if they were afraid of Zelda having any different kind of skin color.

 

[Horohorohoro]

But as a gamer, I'm against it.

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LMFAO

 

[MisterHero]

The person that said Black Panther is a better example is almost correct.

Black Panther was created by two white guys.

The only thing worth any substance would be to publish works and characters by black creators. I would love for Nintendo to do that and honestly, they need it.

These threads come every year and all you learn to do is waggle your finger at people who disagree. Promote some creators and games instead.

 

[Neoxon]

Thanks for saying what I feel (I'm not black by the way).

Zelda represents somekind of European vision of the kingdoms. So it's natural they physicaly went for a white skin.

The kingdom of Hyrule has always had a diverse population, and one of them is the Gerudo.

This call for a "black" Zelda would have been understandable if the game/series could be labeled as "racist" or under representing "minorities". But the world doesn't revolve around the US, and where I come from, we don't have a problem as the US seems to have (and historicaly had) so maybe I'm not the best suited to understand this request. But as a gamer, I'm against it.

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You do realize that there are darker-skinned Hylians in BotW, right?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

where I come from, we don't have a problem as the US seems to have (and historicaly had)

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Lol, do you live in heaven or something

 

[Gustaf]

Link and Zelda reincarnating as Gerudos and Ganon reincarnating as a prince in the hyrule royal family, would be cool as fuck.

people could think that link, since is a gerudo male, would be obviously the "reincarnation" of Ganon. and there is a lot of possibilities with that set up

 

[Mars People]

Isn't there still zero black Smash characters?
In a roster of over 100...

 

[Nepenthe]

You do realize that there are darker-skinned Hylians in BotW, right?

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And they are as far away from the royal bloodline as possible, which is where they belong. /s

Link and Zelda reincarnating as Gerudos and Ganon reincarnating as a prince in the hyrule royal family, would be cool as fuck.

people could think that link, since is a gerudo male, would be obviously the "reincarnation" of Ganon. and there is a lot of possibilities with that set up

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I would love to see this one too.

 

[Neoxon]

Isn't there still zero black Smash characters?
In a roster of over 100...

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83 characters actually, but your point still stands.

 

[Wrapped in Black]

Any and every symbol of Black power goes a long way to dulling those knives. To that end, a Black Princess Zelda sends the message that Black women are not just minor characters or antagonists, but complex, heroic figures of vital importance.

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I wouldn't say turning a White character Black is a symbol of Black power at all. If anything, it just concedes that Whiteness is the "default," and that all that Black people are worthy of is having a color swap on the default, instead of having original, homegrown Black characters. I've personally never had the desire for a Black Link.

But it would be cool if we had a Black princess fulfill Zelda's role as the main princess in a Zelda game. Said princess shouldn't be Zelda, though.

 

[Urban Scholar]

Some of yall got the weakest arguments for, yeah I like my heroes lily white. Your counter arguments are so bare bones. Again proving this conversation with people whom aren't of color particular Black folks is otherly futile.

Yall probably the same people that turn you noses to when period pieces have Black folks. And say "we'll that's not historical accurate" when it was.

 

[Altairre]

But the world doesn't revolve around the US, and where I come from, we don't have a problem as the US seems to have (and historicaly had) so maybe I'm not the best suited to understand this request. But as a gamer, I'm against it.

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Where are you from then? I'm curious.

 

[Mars People]

83 characters actually, but your point still stands.

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I stand corrected, but fuck man could any other fighting game developer get away with that?

 

[darkazcura]

Lot's of people referencing that Zelda is a reincarnation...she's not really, though. Isn't it all the same family? Probably doesn't make as much sense for that character.

Anyway, they should definitely do something like this for Link. Go wild with it. Link should be fully customizable, because that character is truly a reincarnation every single time. Give me Gerudo Link. Give me the option to make Link anything, really.

 

[Neoxon]

I wouldn't say turning a white character black is a symbol of Black power at all. If anything, it just concede that Whiteness is the "default," and that all that Black people are worthy of is having a color swap on the default, instead of having original, homegrown Black characters. I've personally never had the desire for a Black Link.

But it would be cool if we had a Black princess fulfill Zelda's role as the main princess in a Zelda game. Said princess shouldn't be Zelda, though.

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Why shouldn't it be? As mentioned before, it's not like it's the exact same Zelda in every game. In most cases, we see a new reincarnation of Zelda (just as we get a new reincarnation of Link more often than not). They're inherently their own characters.

Lot's of people referencing that Zelda is a reincarnation...she's not really, though. Isn't it all the same family? Probably doesn't make as much sense for that character.

Anyway, they should definitely do something like this for Link. Go wild with it. Link should be fully customizable, because that character is truly a reincarnation every single time. Give me Gerudo Link. Give me the option to make Link anything, really.

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Even then, I mentioned it in the OP. Who's to say that a black man didn't marry into the royal family? Though I will give you the point about Link, even if the Gerudo are more Arabic than black (which would still be great diversity in & of itself).

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Link and Zelda reincarnating as Gerudos and Ganon reincarnating as a prince in the hyrule royal family, would be cool as fuck.

people could think that link, since is a gerudo male, would be obviously the "reincarnation" of Ganon. and there is a lot of possibilities with that set up

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Zelda spinoff where you play as Ganondorf

Then later in the game it's revealed that you're actually Link's reincarnation, not Ganon's

Final boss is devil pig Link (revealed to be Ganon's reincarnation)

 

[Inugami]

A Gerudo Zelda could be really interesting story wise. A Zelda with the blood of the goddess Hylia but who feels the weight of betrayal from her ancestors that sided with Ganondorf could be good, but could just as easily be handled garbage.

I think I understand the people who are worried about it only being a color swap, (fuck those "it would be against lore" or other low effort takes), but there are actual interesting story beats you can hit in-universe by having a Zelda of color.

 

[Sasliquid]

It won't happen because Nintendo designs many of its characters to fit the "Mukokuseki" style, which is too make them generic enough for them to be interpreted as either East Asian or White Western.

Not saying it shouldn't and I'll especially argue for a more customisable Link with multiple possible skin colours and genders.

 

[cw_sasuke]

I bet a dollar that if you asked the author, I'm sure she- a black woman- would not be adverse to original Nintendo IPs with black characters, just like no one else in this thread is. But she's a black woman deep in the Zelda community. Not sure why she can't make the case for a black Zelda without being construed as wanting nothing else.

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Oh she can and did make her case. As stated earlier it's not really about being right or wrong since many changes can lead to the same desired result.

Though I'll be honest and say that my expectations from Nintendo or creatives in general probably be influence me in a way...that I feel that new stories or charachters usually work out better in this kind of scenarios and are also more likely.

So it's probably more of approach thing but trust me I would be the last person to be mad about the next Hyrule mirorring the Wakanda Kingdom featuring a Black Princess Zelda...hell fuck it let it be a dark skinned Queen Zelda. I would be hyped as fuck.....but at the same time as I'm typing it, it's just much less likely ....so yeah it's weird.

One issue I don't even wanna go into is the colorism because even if we get these charachters you know that will be as light skin as possible ...but we'll you take what we can get. Progress I guess.

 

[Neoxon]

A Gerudo Zelda could be really interesting story wise. A Zelda with the blood of the goddess Hylia but who feels the weight of betrayal from her ancestors that sided with Ganondorf could be good, but could just as easily be handled garbage.

I think I understand the people who are worried about it only being a color swap, (fuck those "it would be against lore" or other low effort takes), but there are actual interesting story beats you can hit in-universe by having a Zelda of color.

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The Gerudo are more based on Arabic culture. And while that would be a cool twist in & of itself, the writer of the article is specifically asking for a black Zelda.

 

[EdgeWilder]

I wouldn't say turning a White character Black is a symbol of Black power at all. If anything, it just concedes that Whiteness is the "default," and that all that Black people are worthy of is having a color swap on the default, instead of having original, homegrown Black characters. I've personally never had the desire for a Black Link.

But it would be cool if we had a Black princess fulfill Zelda's role as the main princess in a Zelda game. Said princess shouldn't be Zelda, though.

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You do know 100's of years past between most games and its not the same Zelda every game right?...right?

 

[Sander VF]

Lot's of people referencing that Zelda is a reincarnation...she's not really, though. Isn't it all the same family?

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The same family can have people of different ethnicities marry into it though, especially when the bloodline has been going on for, like, thousands of years.

 

[Neoxon]

I stand corrected, but fuck man could any other fighting game developer get away with that?

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Oh no, most fighting game developers would get a ton of shit for not having a single black character in their games.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

It won't happen because Nintendo designs many of its characters to fit the "Mukokuseki" style, which is too make them generic enough for them to be interpreted as either East Asian or White Western.

Not saying it shouldn't and I'll especially argue for a more customisable Link with multiple possible skin colours and genders.

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"It won't happen because [insert explanation about how Japan is special and different from the rest of the world]"

 

[SykoTech]

It's funny how in a thread about black people, you as a non-black person think you have any high ground to call agreement with the idea insane. And no, I don't care that you're brown.

Fact of the matter is, Link and Zelda are usually reincarnations. They are designed differently most installments, and until recently you have been allowed to name Link whatever the fuck you want in the first place. Changing their skin color is not about to cause any issues with canon. Only thing it's going to do is upset diehards who think Link and Zelda being light-skinned is somehow integral to their personality without being able to explain why they think that is.

And the thought that Nintendo can't create any original IPs alongside development of existing ones makes no sense either. Billion dollar company can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time apparently.

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Best post in the thread.

Some god awful takes going on in this thread. Especially from some brown folks, sadly. Then again, I seem to run into plenty of Gina Rodriguez and Camilia Cabello types in my personal life, so I guess it shouldn't be a surprise. Also, it always seems to be February where people decide to drop trash takes on topics about us black people too. Every year. The irony.

On topic....thanks for the good read, Neoxon. It's a bit US centric though, which is understandable I guess as the writer is likely a black woman living in the US, but there's plenty of anti-black racism to address Japan to address too. Particularly amongst Nintendo games. I mean, you'd have to be a fool to think Zelda and Link being created as fair-skinned blondes and someone like Ganon being they way he is was some sort of coincidence.

Regardless, it'd be a nice change of pace. Certainly wouldn't hold my breath for it though. Not only did Nintendo whitewash Princess Daisy, but when given the opportunity to create a new "princess" of sorts they went with another white blonde with blue eyes. Much worst examples from Nintendo I could bring up, but you get the idea. I suppose there's nothing to lose in terms of keeping the requests going though...

 

[darkazcura]

The same family can have people of different ethnicities marry into it though, especially when the bloodline has been going on for, like, thousands of years.

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Yeah obviously that makes sense. I was just more talking about the point that she is a reincarnation. She really isn't. Of course, this could easily happen by someone marrying into the royal family so from that perspective, it works easily.

 

[zsidane]

You do realize that there are darker-skinned Hylians in BotW, right?

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Yes I do.

Again, from my perspective, the Hyrule kingdom is based on European royal families from the middle ages.
So, to me, the white skin fits. I'm not gonna boycot the next Zelda if the princess or Link is/are black. From my perspective (someone NOT from the US), the color of the hero of a videogame has never been a problem and these calls don't make sense to me.

 

[Deleted member 56306]

I agree but at the same it feels weird to limit yourself when there are no limits in a medium like video games. Black Panther was massive because it was an original kickass charachters with his own cast and not just Black Tony Stark.

More presentation is always good, but the premise of it being only possible or worthwhile if some already established charachters change the race isn't something that would sign up for.

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You are the only person placing limits. No one said only change existing characters.

 

[SirNinja]

It'd be really cool to see, though I wouldn't be waiting around for Nintendo to do something like that. Best-case scenario, there's a studio out there somewhere working on a great Zelda clone that stars far more diverse characters. I would like to see a game like that someday soon.

 

[zsidane]

Where are you from then? I'm curious.

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Algeria.

 

[Neoxon]

Yes I do.

Again, from my perspective, the Hyrule kingdom is based on European royal families from the middle ages.
So, to me, the white skin fits. I'm not gonna boycot the next Zelda if the princess or Link is/are black. From my perspective (someone NOT from the US), the color of the hero of a videogame has never been a problem and these calls don't make sense to me.

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But because darker-skinned Hylians exist, there's no reason that a black man couldn't marry into the family. It's not the same Zelda every time. In fact, most times it's a different Zelda (just as it's a different Link most of the time).

 

[Nepenthe]

Lot's of people referencing that Zelda is a reincarnation...she's not really, though. Isn't it all the same family? Probably doesn't make as much sense for that character.

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If we want to get down to it, royal bloodlines that stick within the family don't last long (ex. King Charles of Spain). You need, like, actual genetic diversity after a certain point. Zelda lore spans hundreds if not thousands of years, and Hyrule's kingdom has gone through periods of waxing and waning across three timelines.

And you telling me not a single person of color could get elected or married to the seat? Bullshit, I say.

One issue I don't even wanna go into is the colorism because even if we get these charachters you know that will be as light skin as possible ...but we'll you take what you can get. Progress I guess.

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There's colorism already. Lilly-white heroes batting back the omnipotent spectre of a the dark-skinned warlord. But I largely agree with you. I always take what I can get.

 

[Uzupedro]

The ''this is a Japanese series'' argument is kinda dumb to me.
It's a Japanese series that makes the white heroes fight the brown villain for 20 years and the majority of the franchise's aspects( designs, costumes, weapons) are inspired by Western shit.

 

[Sasliquid]

"It won't happen because [insert explanation about how Japan is special and different from the rest of the world]"

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As I said I'm not saying it shouldn't but that I highly doubt Nintendo would want to.

 

[Lotus]

The Gerudo are more based on Arabic culture. And while that would be a cool twist in & of itself, the writer of the article is specifically asking for a black Zelda.

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His post still applies. It seems that some people just have no imagination on how to make a Link/Zelda with a darker skin tone work beyond a simple palette swap, so therefore they must stay lily white apparently

 

[Wrapped in Black]

Why shouldn't it be? As mentioned before, it's not like it's the exact same Zelda in every game. In most cases, we see a new reincarnation of Zelda (just as we get a new reincarnation of Link more often than not). They're inherently their own characters.

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You do know 100's of years past between most games and its not the same Zelda every game right?...right?

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Good point. I'm not against the idea of a Black Zelda; I just think it's a 'lazy' way to do Black representation. But speaking as someone whose Black older sister has always loved Zelda as a character since she was young, maybe I just wouldn't get how impactful it would be nonetheless.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

On topic....thanks for the good read, Neoxon. It's a bit US centric though, which is understandable I guess as the writer is likely a black woman living in the US, but there's plenty of anti-black racism to address Japan to address too. Particularly amongst Nintendo games. I mean, you'd have to be a fool to think Zelda and Link being created as fair-skinned blondes and someone like Ganon being they way he is was some sort of coincidence.

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"A bit" is putting it mildly...

 

[Neoxon]

Good point. I'm not against the idea of a Black Zelda; I just think it's a 'lazy' way to do Black representation. But speaking as someone whose Black older sister has always loved Zelda as a character since she was young, maybe I just wouldn't get how impactful it would be nonetheless.

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If anything, a black reincarnation of Zelda would be closer to a Miles Morales situation in that she's effectively a new character (as most Zelda & Link reincarnations are) in the role of a legacy primarily held by a white character (or white reincarnations, in Zelda's case).

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Yes I do.

Again, from my perspective, the Hyrule kingdom is based on European royal families from the middle ages.
So, to me, the white skin fits. I'm not gonna boycot the next Zelda if the princess or Link is/are black. From my perspective (someone NOT from the US), the color of the hero of a videogame has never been a problem and these calls don't make sense to me.

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Oh yeah the European middle ages, where people had pointy ears

 

[cw_sasuke]

You are the only person placing limits. No one said only change existing characters.

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I wish this was the case but you don't know how these creative get to their decision making and how they are gonna alter their work as long as they give us one token black charachters. That's why I get wary of that approach because we often end with Star Wars/Finn Situation where on paper we got what we wanted....but still got screwed.

It's good for the overall representation but once you read between the lines or take a deeper look things don't add up no more.

But you are right that I shouldn't have assumed that is the only approach the author was going to support, it's just one many things.

 

[Abominuz]

I'm black and I just think no. This is not how diversity should be handled.

Stop with the painting existing characters to a different colour. That's not how it should be.

Black panther is the prime example of how it should be done a character with his own lore and origin not a recolouring of existing characters.

I definitely don't agree with this thread at all.

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Thank you, exactly this.

 

[Inugami]

The Gerudo are more based on Arabic culture. And while that would be a cool twist in & of itself, the writer of the article is specifically asking for a black Zelda.

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The Gerudo are portrayed middle eastern/Arabic, but there are absolutely black people from that area and perceived time period (trade between the middle east and Africa is well documented for thousands of years).

 

[EdgeWilder]

It's funny how in a thread about black people, you as a non-black person think you have any high ground to call agreement with the idea insane. And no, I don't care that you're brown.

Fact of the matter is, Link and Zelda are usually reincarnations. They are designed differently most installments, and until recently you have been allowed to name Link whatever the fuck you want in the first place. Changing their skin color is not about to cause any issues with canon. Only thing it's going to do is upset diehards who think Link and Zelda being light-skinned is somehow integral to their personality without being able to explain why they think that is.

And the thought that Nintendo can't create any original IPs alongside development of existing ones makes no sense either. Billion dollar company can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time apparently.

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Already been said and mentioned im sure but thank you. You've got way more patients then me at explaining these VERY SIMPLE concept to the gamers here