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[Zelda Dungeon] Diversity in Zelda: The Need for a Black Princess Zelda
- Thread starter Neoxon
- Start date
Exactly.
And whilst we're on the topic of diversity, I think a more valid attempt at diversity in Zelda is making Zelda the main playable character on her own quest and character arc, without delivering a watered down experience.
I don't get these "it would just be a palette swap" takes. Isn't the entire lore behind the Zelda series that it's the same archetypes returning again and again. Nintendo uses that lore to completely switch up the settings of these games. Now Hyrule's in the sky, now it's underwater; that sorta thing. Why couldn't that also include altered appearances for the main cast? IMO the Zelda series would be perfect for including some much needed diversity in Nintendo's output. Hyrule could be based on an African kingdom and then an Indian one and then an Incan one, etc.
I'm not expecting Nintendo to do this. I mean, let's face it, they never will. But still, I don't see why it couldn't hypothetically be done and I think it'd be pretty cool.
I'm not expecting Nintendo to do this. I mean, let's face it, they never will. But still, I don't see why it couldn't hypothetically be done and I think it'd be pretty cool.
Must-read post
It's funny how in a thread about black people, you as a non-black person think you have any high ground to call agreement with the idea insane. And no, I don't care that you're brown.
Fact of the matter is, Link and Zelda are usually reincarnations. They are designed differently most installments, and until recently you have been allowed to name Link whatever the fuck you want in the first place. Changing their skin color is not about to cause any issues with canon. Only thing it's going to do is upset diehards who think Link and Zelda being light-skinned is somehow integral to their personality without being able to explain why they think that is.
And the thought that Nintendo can't create any original IPs alongside development of existing ones makes no sense either. Billion dollar company can't walk and chew bubblegum at the same time apparently.
Bout to blow some people's minds there with that kind of talk lol
MCU Fury is based on Ultimate universe Fury which is based off Sam Jackson though not a race swap.
User banned (1 month): dismissing concerns around representation
While I think a black player character from Nintendo or a black Zelda would be neat, it is ridiculous that a text about Legend of Zelda, a Japanese series made by (mostly) Japanese people, says America/n 9 times and fails to mention Japan (or even Africa) even once. It does show that many Americans, no matter how progressive they claim to be, still see the rest of the world as only existing to serve and cater to the US.
Thanks for sharing this Neoxon
I definitely agree
Did you read the entire article? Because if you did, your statement doesn't help a franchise that touts a white elf in being more diverse.
So let's ignore all the non human people. How would you seriously suggest they address it? Because games are all coming to the realization that they need to be diverse. And have your blonde haired white elf isn't screaming diversity & inclusion.
You mention that new characters
Did you read the entire article? Because if you did, your statement doesn't help a franchise that touts a white elf in being more diverse.
So let's ignore all the non human people. How would you seriously suggest they address it? Because games are all coming to the realization that they need to be diverse. And have your blonde haired white elf isn't screaming diversity & inclusion.
You mention that new characters need to be created. Okay so then what could this series do then? Because you just came in here and said you don't agree. Which adds nothing to the conversation, thanks for the contribution.
Happy Black History Month I guess dude
I definitely agree
Did you read the entire article? Because if you did, your statement doesn't help a franchise that touts a white elf in being more diverse.
So let's ignore all the non human people. How would you seriously suggest they address it? Because games are all coming to the realization that they need to be diverse. And have your blonde haired white elf isn't screaming diversity & inclusion.
You mention that new characters
Did you read the entire article? Because if you did, your statement doesn't help a franchise that touts a white elf in being more diverse.
So let's ignore all the non human people. How would you seriously suggest they address it? Because games are all coming to the realization that they need to be diverse. And have your blonde haired white elf isn't screaming diversity & inclusion.
You mention that new characters need to be created. Okay so then what could this series do then? Because you just came in here and said you don't agree. Which adds nothing to the conversation, thanks for the contribution.
Happy Black History Month I guess dude
Good post.
All this bullshit about how Link ain't allowed to be gender-swapped I've seen over the years. Fine. (Well not actually fine, but let's say I agreed) How people also gonna say that now there's an issue with Link having a different skin tone too? It's fucking reincarnation lmao
That was a good read. While i don't think Nintendo will ever allow it, since the keep reincarnating i don't see why we can't have a black Zelda.
Thank you for this. As a brown man I honestly find this type of suggestions (at least in cases that concerns me, like when people are talking about making characters brown or talking about Muslim origins without knowing what they really are talking about - not saying that's the case with OP, just an example) kinda offensive.
Representation shouldn't come in the form of using a paint brush on existing characters. Like you said, creating new characters with their own lore and origin should be the focus.
Agreed, as a Black person, I'd much rather see Nintendo invest in making a great Black character instead of making Zelda Black for a game or two. Leave her be.
I would rather them to introduce new kickass PoC characters or new series featuring them. Gladly they did actually in BotW ....but there is always more than can be done.
It's also the much more likely thing to happen.
Couldn't have said it better and completely agree. I honestly feel that these takes demanding the same character just to be black rarely come from black persons because that's not the preferred outcome for most of us.
Like Nintendo or creatives couldn't create new kickass charachters and the only way for a Black person to be relevant is if its based on a charachters with a (mostly white) history.
It's also the much more likely thing to happen.
Amen.
Couldn't have said it better and completely agree. I honestly feel that these takes demanding the same character just to be black rarely come from black persons because that's not the preferred outcome for most of us.
Like Nintendo or creatives couldn't create new kickass charachters and the only way for a Black person to be relevant is if its based on a charachters with a (mostly white) history.
I'm trying to figure out how making this Japanese/White/Whatever character black is supposed to make my life any better...
I wouldn't care if they did (though I would be concerned by the writing since that can go wrong) and someone did make a good point about Link and Zelda being different people every few games but I really don't see the benefit.
Can't Nintendo just make a black MC who lives in the same world/universe?
Yeah, these were my thoughts too. I don't have much ground to stand on as a white guy but I don't see how this would be amy different than Miles Morales being a black Spider-Man. Link and Zelda are different characters in different Zelda games, it wouldn't be "recoloring an existing character."
Not even divine intervention can inject melanin into the Hero and Goddess apparently.
I'm black. I want more black characters, whether they be original characters or race swaps. I'm not gonna be picky. Not sure why anyone feels obligated to be.
This whole dynamic of every Zelda and Link needing to be white while their one destined nemesis is a "wicked man from the desert" is racist as shit and has to go.
WTH is with all the replies in here claiming to be PoC and saying they don't want pallet swaps of existing characters? Its basically a new Zelda every game save a few. I'm all for OG black characters as well but I'd love to see a princess Zelda and a Link who is Black/Brown. Its not like OP was asking for us to change Twilight Princess Link into a brotha.
This seriously comes off as people complaining when an artist draws an established anime characters Black.. shit is gross, let us be heroes in your stories as well, especially the ones that reset their world almost every game.
This seriously comes off as people complaining when an artist draws an established anime characters Black.. shit is gross, let us be heroes in your stories as well, especially the ones that reset their world almost every game.
I was going to bring up this exact example. Or even them just adding a game where you can change how Zelda/Link look like aside from the usual blonde + white skin would be awesome. My little sister got into Zelda with BotW and I know she'd love something like that.
With Pokemon and Animal Crossing both allowing you to have "Black" (because I don't think they have afro-hair textures in Pokemon yet) protags, it'd be great if Zelda was the next franchise to do this too.
And... never read the comments bro. Never.
Did you see who wrote it? A Black woman that's a senior editor on this site dedicated to all things Zelda. Please cater to the US? Yes as if Black people asking for more than white heroes is a Black people in the US problem.
The comments even tell you're wrong get that shit outta here.
Diversity in Zelda: A Month-Long Discussion of Race in the Zelda Series - Zelda Dungeon
Diversity in gaming tends to be a hot-button issue, and one not too often talked about in the context of the Zelda series. We at Zelda Dungeon want to shine a light on the issues of representation, stereotyping, and intersectionality in our community. This will be an ongoing series in which we...
www.zeldadungeon.net
Gonna be a long ass road to get to there. Nintendo barely has many PoC side characters as is. Asking for a black person as a main princess seems years off at best, sadly.
I'm confused at the pallet swap comments.
it'll be a new Zelda. Just like every Zelda game, their be their own character and life lol.
and a new Link. Who Will probably be the same Character but a different upbringing.
it'll be a new Zelda. Just like every Zelda game, their be their own character and life lol.
and a new Link. Who Will probably be the same Character but a different upbringing.
I agree but at the same it feels weird to limit yourself when there are no limits in a medium like video games. Black Panther was massive because it was an original kickass charachters with his own cast and not just Black Tony Stark.
More presentation is always good, but the premise of it being only possible or worthwhile if some already established charachters change the race isn't something that would sign up for.
OP
OP
That's the issue I don't understand. Outside of a few exceptions (OoT -> MM, BotW -> BotW2, WW -> PH, etc.), it's usually never the same Link or Zelda.
User banned (1 month): dismissing concerns around representation
Yes, it's bizarre to read. Article about Japanese series, the actual text: America, America, America, America, and only America.
Give me a Latino 😭
as a Mexican. I was really happy with Mario Odyssey giving us a tribute. Tho I hated it was a desert, tho I lived in a desert all my life lol.
as a Mexican. I was really happy with Mario Odyssey giving us a tribute. Tho I hated it was a desert, tho I lived in a desert all my life lol.
How in the world am I limiting myself when I said "I will take any black character, whether they are original or race swaps"?
My avatar is of an original black character.
What is even happening???
This too. The characters reincarnate. Let's go hog-wild.
I guess not lol
My black ass has always wanted a Link/Zelda with some melanin for years, it literally has a built-in justification for it, people act like we're asking for a black Mario lol
Sure why not. Hylians in BotW come in all skin tones, so why can't the royal family? Wind Waker already had a dark skinned Zelda until the name Zelda was actually uttered and she turned white, so I'd be all for the next game after BotW2 doing that correctly. Gamers would rage but gamers are idiots. Unfortunately Nintendo won't do it. I do at least hope we continue seeing the diversity seen in BotW.
Y'all acting like there is a qouta on black.brown characters that are allowed in the Zelda franchise. Make Zelda black Make link Brown, Introduce 2 more PoC characters who become staples in the series or at least important to the game their in. Or do people have a problem with that as well? Really coming off as I wont accept a PoC Zelda/Link. Even though again these are characters who are reincarnated like every game.
Seriously its fucking disappointing/depressing reading this shit. Especailly coming from fellow PoC fans of Zelda >_>
Seriously its fucking disappointing/depressing reading this shit. Especailly coming from fellow PoC fans of Zelda >_>
I'd prefer Nintendo come up with a brand new character in a brand new game built around a black hero or heroine.
As for Tetra being "brown", nope. As an actual brown person, no way. She went from a tanned blonde white pirate to a white untanned blonde princess.
As for Tetra being "brown", nope. As an actual brown person, no way. She went from a tanned blonde white pirate to a white untanned blonde princess.
I'm talking about the creator and developer in this case Nintendo, not your stance.
Don't want to beat a dead horse, but Zelda and Link aren't singular characters. Zelda has gone from blonde hair blue eyes to being a brunette, so it's not just "recoloring." It's the essence of the series' method of reincarnation. It's like how the different Doctors in Doctor Who can look and behave completely different because they're not the same person.
If this
Can reincarnate into this
It shouldn't be too wild to see Zelda reincarnated as a different race.
Yeah this is what I thought reading the thread title
I don't really like hand-me-down characters, hand-me-down mantles are somewhat better but still
Nintendo is a billion dollar company. You think they can't do both?
OP
OP
It's less that Tetra/Zelda was proper representation & more of Nintendo feeling the need to lighten her skin the second her true identity was revealed. Hell, even her father was darker-skinned than what Zelda ended up being.
This part was the oddest:
Like there are no PoCs in Japan and racism doesn't exist in Japan?? If they make a PoC Zelda maybe it it would be a statement of allyship for the PoCs in Japan first and foremost. The entire world doesn't revolve around the US
Are there good black npc's that aren't Gerudo?
I'd love to see a black Link or Zelda but we can't even get npc's.
I'd love to see a black Link or Zelda but we can't even get npc's.
That's what I'm saying, there is more that can be done than just a race swap on established charachters and one of the things I would prefer would be the creation of new charachters that could build their own stories, legacies and fanbase.
It's not a either or situation for me, only saying what I would prefer when the article in the OP makes it seem that Zelda being black is needed to reach that diversity goal. It's one way of multiple but as said before there is no need to limit yourself to that way of thinking.
Edit.
This is actually less about what Nintendo can or will do but what I would prefer to see. I mean you don't have to share that sentiment but at the same time it's not like I said the proposed idea in the OP is bad or shouldn't happen. Because your post make it seems like I'm arguing against it ...when i would love to see more ambitious takes, that aren't limited to already established type of charachters.
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Nah man according to some in Era nintendo can only make new black character in new I.Ps and hope they take off. but if they fail at least they tried right? lol God forbid one of the most popular characters in pop media who reincarnates besides maybe Dr.Who cant be PoC, in one of their many reincarnation
You don't even have to stop at Wind Waker. Even the king in BOTW has brown skin.
So why does Zelda need to be lily white?
So why does Zelda need to be lily white?
Zelda, Link, Ganon and many other characters are different in every new Zelda that isn't a sequel.
It is not forced to make one of the new Zelda games different. Link can be black, so can Zelda. Like, did we forget that Ganon went from a pig to a man to an ogre to a samurai etc? Did someone complain that a pig man turned into a man?
I don't remember anyone thinking that.
While I am at it, have a female Link as well. Link is a blankstate character so he can be anything.
It is really weird to me how with all the various different Zeldas and Links people put a line when it comes to skin color.
It is not forced to make one of the new Zelda games different. Link can be black, so can Zelda. Like, did we forget that Ganon went from a pig to a man to an ogre to a samurai etc? Did someone complain that a pig man turned into a man?
I don't remember anyone thinking that.
While I am at it, have a female Link as well. Link is a blankstate character so he can be anything.
It is really weird to me how with all the various different Zeldas and Links people put a line when it comes to skin color.
Reading through the thread it seems the stories are often reincarnations? If that's an understood part of it then I guess it might work, but is it like comic book arcs, or more like Dr. Who? Cause there's a difference between making a black peter parker and making miles morales