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Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
I honestly don't mind having a different take on Superman, so what Synder was trying to do was interesting. I guess since I read alot of the comics and watched a bunch of the animated stuff, this Superman didn't seems so out there. Just wish Synder had better writing to support what he wanted to do.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,542
Reshoots happen. That's the nature of making a movie, especially a big exposition/FX/action-heavy movie.

When Snyder left/was removed, whatever, there were still reshoots to be done. That was always the case. Except those allotted couple weeks turned into months under Whedon/WB's directional shift. Zack's cut, whatever shape it was in, still needed to have that additional photography done (plus whatever the fuck else they decided to add upon announcing this thing).
If you went indepth about anything that came out after the announcement of the Snyder Cut a year ago, you'd know Snyder's reshoots amounted to one week of additional photography. You said yourself Whedon had months to reshoot his stuff. Stop with the bullshit narrative and just state you don't like his movies.
 

SuperBoss

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,527
schermafbeelding2021-cij45.png

tenor.gif
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,199
Greater Vancouver
If you went indepth about anything that came out after the announcement of the Snyder Cut a year ago, you'd know Snyder's reshoots amounted to one week of additional photography. You said yourself Whedon had months to reshoot his stuff. Stop with the bullshit narrative and just state you don't like his movies.
What bullshit narrative? Of fucking course I don't like his movies.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,039
I honestly don't mind having a different take on Superman, so what Synder was trying to do was interesting. I guess since I read alot of the comics and watched a bunch of the animated stuff, this Superman didn't seems so out there. Just wish Synder had better writing to support what he wanted to do.

The problem is NOT that we can't have a sociopathic Superman. The problem is that Snyder's take on a sociopathic Superman is shit, riddled with horrible writing and characterization.

The best Superman comic I ever read was Red Son, and SUPRISE, that was also about an evil Superman. But it was actually WELL WRITTEN.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,833
Yeah Suicide Squad is a whole different beast. I mean the movie that was put out in theaters wasn't even edited by filmmakers; it was done by a trailer company. Whedon's Justice League, for as shit as it was, still had some form of cohesion to it.

I think that was for me the most jarring part, it didn't really have cohesion. Whedon shoots way differently than Snyder, and a lot of stuff didn't match (Afflecks face is the biggest thing and duh, Cavill's beard). It very much look liked like a jumbled mess of Snyder/Whedon/WB.

Suicide had it's own lack of cohesion for other reasons.
 

Pandora012

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
5,495
The problem is NOT that we can't have a sociopathic Superman. The problem is that Snyder's take on a sociopathic Superman is shit, riddled with horrible writing and characterization.

The best Superman comic I ever read was Red Son, and SUPRISE, that was also about an evil Superman. But it was actually WELL WRITTEN.
You say that, but some people still don't like that interpretation. So yeah, part of the problem is that he's not the superman people want. The writing didnt help either.
 

LFMartins86

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,179
I don't even get what this movie is. Is it like an extended directors cut but with a change of directors or something?
Snyder shoot about 5h of footage, made a first cut of 3h and something.
Warner Bros executives were fearful of a dark Justice League movie after Batman vs Superman didn't do as well as expected.
Snyder's daughter killed herself and Snyder felt like he needed to be with his family instead of battling WB.
Whedon was brought in to add a bit of humor and shot 1h and something of new footage.
Movie was released and it was a mess of tones and styles.
Flashforward a few years and WB gave the greenlight for Snyder to finish his version.
He shot 4 minutes or something of new stuff and finished the visual effects and coloring on his previous footage.
The movie that's being released doesn't feature any frame shot by Whedon, it's all Snyder.
The large points of the plot will be the same but there should be a lot of different scenes and characters that didn't make the theatrical cut.
 

ItIsOkBro

Happy New Year!!
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,510
now we're getting a movie that isn't a hacked together mess of competing visions and a movie with the stench of weadon removed

what's not to like, seriously
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,540
Cape Cod, MA
Visually it looks way better than Whedon's version. Which was never in doubt. I'll never forget Whedon claiming that he was going to shoot his scenes in 'Snyder's style' like that was something he could do anymore than Snyder could simply write scenes in Whedon style.

It was such an arrogant thing to believe. The stylistic whiplash from the Snyder stuff and the Whedon stuff in the original was bad enough... but seeing how much he fucked up some of Snyder's stuff is going to be pretty eye opening I expect.

I'm not expecting the movie to be good though. It'll be better for sure though as it'll be missing the three biggest flaws the original release had. 1. Stylistic/tonal whiplash. 2. Moustache removal. 3. Writing Wonder Woman like every other powerful but SEXY Whedon character like we haven't moved on from the late 90s. LOL HE TRIPPED INTO HER BOOBS. MALE GAZE.
 

Deleted member 36563

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2017
79
Can't wait for this. This is my superbowl.

Love the vision he has for the movies and in particular superman. The story, the visuals and the score. I need more...

Man of steel gets better every rewatch.
 

MadLaughter

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,096
Snyder shoot about 5h of footage, made a first cut of 3h and something.
Warner Bros executives were fearful of a dark Justice League movie after Batman vs Superman didn't do as well as expected.
Snyder's daughter killed herself and Snyder felt like he needed to be with his family instead of battling WB.
Whedon was brought in to add a bit of humor and shot 1h and something of new footage.
Movie was released and it was a mess of tones and styles.
Flashforward a few years and WB gave the greenlight for Snyder to finish his version.
He shot 4 minutes or something of new stuff and finished the visual effects and coloring on his previous footage.
The movie that's being released doesn't feature any frame shot by Whedon, it's all Snyder.
The large points of the plot will be the same but there should be a lot of different scenes and characters that didn't make the theatrical cut.

He only shot 4 minutes of new stuff?
 

Sibersk Esto

Changed the hierarchy of thread titles
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,505
The tone of Snyder's films wouldn't be an issue if the films themselves were actually good at utilizing that tone to tell something of a cohesive, compelling story.

The idea of Superman not being the Superman we're used to until the end of some multi movie arc would be fine if that was the story being told. But it isn't, as the character is clearly supposed to be fully formed by the end of MOS and spends most of BvS sullenly bouncing from scene to scene until he dies, with the rest of the cast extolling his virtues like he was already the "classic" Superman that we all knew.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,039
You say that, but some people still don't like that interpretation. So yeah, part of the problem is that he's not the superman people want. The writing didnt help either.

If you're going take what for decades has been the quintessential example of a "Good Guy" in western popular culture make him the antithesis of all of that, then yeah, there's gonna be pushback. BUT, a good enough take on an evil Superman would be enough to change people's minds. It might more than one film, perhaps years, but it could be done.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,540
Cape Cod, MA
Snyder shot about 5h of footage, made an assembly cut of 3h and something (no CG, no color correction etc).
Warner Bros executives were fearful of a dark Justice League movie after Batman vs Superman didn't do as well as expected.
Whedon was brought in to write some scenes for Snyder to shoot in reshoots and add a bit of humor.
Snyder's daughter killed herself and Snyder felt like he needed to be with his family instead of battling WB.
Since Whedon was already involved and had Avengers experience, they had him do the reshoots and he shot 1h and something of new footage.
Lots of changes were made to the direction of post production work of Snyder's footage (completely different CG, color correction, etc). Original composer was replaced by Danny Elfman presumably to get some 'Batman' cred.
Movie was released and it was a mess of tones and styles.
Flashforward a few years and WB gave the greenlight for Snyder to finish his version.
He shot 4 minutes or something of new stuff and finished the visual effects and coloring on his previous footage.
Junkie XL came back to finish composing for the movie.
The movie that's being released doesn't feature any frame shot by Whedon, it's all Snyder.
The large points of the plot will be the same but there should be a lot of different scenes and characters that didn't make the theatrical cut.
Made a couple of slight tweaks to the timeline.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,542
???

Where did I compare Whedon's reshoots to his?
From the post you made:
Reshoots happen. That's the nature of making a movie, especially a big exposition/FX/action-heavy movie.

When Snyder left/was removed, whatever, there were still reshoots to be done. That was always the case. Except those allotted couple weeks turned into months under Whedon/WB's directional shift. Zack's cut, whatever shape it was in, still needed to have that additional photography done (plus whatever the fuck else they decided to add upon announcing this thing).
Many articles have stated the additional photography amounted to about four minutes. Some of it was adding the Joker to the cut since he thought it was a disservice to add the Joker easter egg in BvS without explaining what made Batman into the fallen hero he became in that movie. That's a far cry from the months of reshoots Whedon had in his disposal to change the entire movie.
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,540
Cape Cod, MA
I think that was for me the most jarring part, it didn't really have cohesion. Whedon shoots way differently than Snyder, and a lot of stuff didn't match (Afflecks face is the biggest thing and duh, Cavill's beard). It very much look liked like a jumbled mess of Snyder/Whedon/WB.
The one I always remember as the jarring shift from Bruce talking to Aquaman inside the dark dingy bar, to them going outside into the bright sunshine and being all jokey jokey.
 

AWizardDidIt

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,461
Snyder shoot about 5h of footage, made a first cut of 3h and something.
Warner Bros executives were fearful of a dark Justice League movie after Batman vs Superman didn't do as well as expected.
Snyder's daughter killed herself and Snyder felt like he needed to be with his family instead of battling WB.
Whedon was brought in to add a bit of humor and shot 1h and something of new footage.
Movie was released and it was a mess of tones and styles.
Flashforward a few years and WB gave the greenlight for Snyder to finish his version.
He shot 4 minutes or something of new stuff and finished the visual effects and coloring on his previous footage.
The movie that's being released doesn't feature any frame shot by Whedon, it's all Snyder.
The large points of the plot will be the same but there should be a lot of different scenes and characters that didn't make the theatrical cut.

Can't wait to hear the inevitable calls for the Snyder-Whedon 6 hour extended extended cut

/s
 

plagiarize

Eating crackers
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,540
Cape Cod, MA
From the post you made:

Many articles have stated the additional photography amounted to about four minutes. Some of it was adding the Joker to the cut since he thought it was a disservice to add the Joker easter egg in BvS without explaining what made Batman into the fallen hero he became in that movie. That's a far cry from the months of reshoots Whedon had in his disposal to change the entire movie.
And saying the reshoots were 'needed' is pretty loaded if you ask me.

They had shot the entire shooting script during principle photography. The plan was, as it is for most of these films, to put together a rough cut, and make further tweaks, but that doesn't mean the reshoots were *necessary*. We only really know that WB wanted to add more humor to it, which is why Whedon got brought in to work on the scenes they were reshooting.

Like, New Mutants was supposed to get reshoots too, but for all sorts of various reasons they never happened. The final movie works perfectly well. Reshoots could have improved things, obviously, but having a block of time scheduled for reshoots is usually more about making iterative improvements these days, VS the initial production block not having enough to cut together the damn movie.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,199
Greater Vancouver
From the post you made:

Many articles have stated the additional photography amounted to about four minutes. Some of it was adding the Joker to the cut since he thought it was a disservice to add the Joker easter egg in BvS without explaining what made Batman into the fallen hero he became in that movie. That's a far cry from the months of reshoots Whedon had in his disposal to change the entire movie.
I'm still not seeing where I'm "comparing" anything. I said Snyder's intended reshoots weren't done under Whedon's months-long rework of the movie.

Snyder has a nearly 4 hour movie - in no world was anything close to that being put out in theaters for an initial theatrical run. He was going to need to cut that movie down, and with that comes the need to smooth out the void left by cut material, add inserts for clarity, and find ways to adjust existing scenes. Whedon's cut is entirely irrelevant to this conversation.
 

Dizastah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,124
Snyder shoot about 5h of footage, made a first cut of 3h and something.
Warner Bros executives were fearful of a dark Justice League movie after Batman vs Superman didn't do as well as expected.
Snyder's daughter killed herself and Snyder felt like he needed to be with his family instead of battling WB.
Whedon was brought in to add a bit of humor and shot 1h and something of new footage.
Movie was released and it was a mess of tones and styles.
Flashforward a few years and WB gave the greenlight for Snyder to finish his version.
He shot 4 minutes or something of new stuff and finished the visual effects and coloring on his previous footage.
The movie that's being released doesn't feature any frame shot by Whedon, it's all Snyder.
The large points of the plot will be the same but there should be a lot of different scenes and characters that didn't make the theatrical cut.
Interesting.
 

Sibersk Esto

Changed the hierarchy of thread titles
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,505
The problem is NOT that we can't have a sociopathic Superman. The problem is that Snyder's take on a sociopathic Superman is shit, riddled with horrible writing and characterization.

The best Superman comic I ever read was Red Son, and SUPRISE, that was also about an evil Superman. But it was actually WELL WRITTEN.
You say that, but some people still don't like that interpretation. So yeah, part of the problem is that he's not the superman people want. The writing didnt help either.
If you're going take what for decades has been the quintessential example of a "Good Guy" in western popular culture make him the antithesis of all of that, then yeah, there's gonna be pushback. BUT, a good enough take on an evil Superman would be enough to change people's minds. It might more than one film, perhaps years, but it could be done.

Here's the thing. Snyder is very clearly not telling the story of a DC Universe were Superman is some sort of uncaring callous sociopath. Looking strictly at the text of the films themselves, Superman himself is very clearly supposed to be a caring, heroic, aspirational figure like the Superman we know.

It's only because of Snyder's sensibilities as a storyteller, in particular his penchant for brutalist, hard edged bombast that makes it seem that way.

When his Superman does this:

3433378-4.jpg


Or this

tumblr_murmablNa31so0s3vo4_250.gif


or this

22df04d06d98dbe823196c490344278e.gif


Or this

ConstantDeliciousDove-size_restricted.gif


It's supposed to be heroic. Cool even.
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
I thought the BvS trailers kinda sucked and I thought "this movie looks kinda bad" before watching it and realizing it was worse than I could even imagine.

But those Man of Steel and Suckerpunch trailers are incredible.

The comic con trailer for BvS was super hype.

Then the last trailer with Doomsday that basically summarized the main beats came out and then people starting being concerned.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,039
Here's the thing. Snyder is very clearly not telling the story of a DC Universe were Superman is some sort of uncaring callous sociopath. looking strictly at the text of the films themselves, Superman himself is very clearly supposed to be a caring, heroic, aspirational figure like the Superman we know.

It's only because of Snyder's sensibilities as a storyteller, in particular for brutalist, hard edged bombast that makes it seem that way.

When his Superman does this:

3433378-4.jpg


Or this

tumblr_murmablNa31so0s3vo4_250.gif


or this

22df04d06d98dbe823196c490344278e.gif


Or this

ConstantDeliciousDove-size_restricted.gif


It's supposed to be heroic. Cool even.

Wow, so Supes killed that last dude. Don't you DARE tell me someone could survive that.
 

Sibersk Esto

Changed the hierarchy of thread titles
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,505
The comic con trailer for BvS was super hype.

Then the last trailer with Doomsday that basically summarized the main beats came out and then people starting being concerned.

The Doomsday reveal might be the most disastrous piece of marketing I've ever seen. Just sucked out all the air out of the room.
 

Deleted member 36563

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2017
79
I find it so bizarre that people have a problem with this getting made. His vision has a fan base. Let it go... The original production was incredibly messy. Snyder had his personal problems. Whedon butchered the continuation of the production and it looks like he was awful on set.

Just because critics give snyder movies poor reviews doesn't mean people don't want to see it. I've seen some highly reviewed movies which I just didn't get a kick out of. People like different things..

BvS grossed well and Man of steel did for the time. Theres a demand for it and its a win win for WB being on HBO max.

Depending on its success for HBO max I'm really interested to see if WB pursue with his vision on the streaming service. I can't see how the story is going to end with the footage shot. All the cast seem to love him so it's possible.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,850
Visually it looks way better than Whedon's version. Which was never in doubt. I'll never forget Whedon claiming that he was going to shoot his scenes in 'Snyder's style' like that was something he could do anymore than Snyder could simply write scenes in Whedon style.

It was such an arrogant thing to believe. The stylistic whiplash from the Snyder stuff and the Whedon stuff in the original was bad enough... but seeing how much he fucked up some of Snyder's stuff is going to be pretty eye opening I expect.

I'm not expecting the movie to be good though. It'll be better for sure though as it'll be missing the three biggest flaws the original release had. 1. Stylistic/tonal whiplash. 2. Moustache removal. 3. Writing Wonder Woman like every other powerful but SEXY Whedon character like we haven't moved on from the late 90s. LOL HE TRIPPED INTO HER BOOBS. MALE GAZE.


The fact the Superman shot is getting a lot of praise and attention on social media and nobody remembers it was featured in the whedon cut is telling, regarding how much whedon destroyed all the story boards Snyder's team made.

The artist had said as much but this is brutal to see it with out own eyes.
 

Slaythe

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,850
I find it so bizarre that people have a problem with this getting made. His vision has a fan base. Let it go... The original production was incredibly messy. Snyder had his personal problems. Whedon butchered the continuation of the production and it looks like he was awful on set.

Just because critics give snyder movies poor reviews doesn't mean people don't want to see it. I've seen some highly reviewed movies which I just didn't get a kick out of. People like different things..

BvS grossed well and Man of steel did for the time. Theres a demand for it and its a win win for WB being on HBO max.

Depending on its success for HBO max I'm really interested to see if WB pursue with his vision on the streaming service. I can't see how the story is going to end with the footage shot. All the cast seem to love him so it's possible.

I think they wanted to run away from it but after ww1984 being absolute fucking dogshit they're probably back to panicking.

If people enjoy the film they may reconsider.

Critics are a lost cause as even Man of Steel wasnt liked by them despite millions of fans. Which is fine I guess.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,833
I just remember being baffled at how bad he looked.

Then of course we got the usual fan excuse of denial "IT'S NOT HIS FINAL FORM. HE'S GOING TO EVOLVE."

But he did lol, shit it's in the concepts as well. That was always their plan. His evolution didn't go far enough though, they should've gone full comic with all the bones and stuff.
 

Bonefish

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,697
Doomsday was basically Zod, so thats the reason he looks like he does. But yeah I don't know why they didnt go ham on the bones in spikes as he is transforming at the end.
 

Praetorpwj

Member
Nov 21, 2017
4,360
Interesting - since I've been followed this whole saga tangentially, I didn't realize there was "supposed" to be a third movie.
I believe there were to be 2 further films or a film in 2 parts. Film 1 Darkside invades thrashes earth as per knightmare scene from BvS, Lois dies Supes goes bad. Film 2 The Gang Fight Back set mainly in Apokolips.
 

Sibersk Esto

Changed the hierarchy of thread titles
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,505
I find it so bizarre that people have a problem with this getting made. His vision has a fan base. Let it go... The original production was incredibly messy. Snyder had his personal problems. Whedon butchered the continuation of the production and it looks like he was awful on set.

Just because critics give snyder movies poor reviews doesn't mean people don't want to see it. I've seen some highly reviewed movies which I just didn't get a kick out of. People like different things..

That "fan base" led a sustained campaign of harassment and bullying in order to get what they want. People were bullied into deleting social media accounts, received death threats, and were explicitly targeted for mockery and derision. There's a difference between liking someone's work and creating a deranged culture war.
 

Kaswa101

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,746
Here's the thing. Snyder is very clearly not telling the story of a DC Universe were Superman is some sort of uncaring callous sociopath. Looking strictly at the text of the films themselves, Superman himself is very clearly supposed to be a caring, heroic, aspirational figure like the Superman we know.

It's only because of Snyder's sensibilities as a storyteller, in particular his penchant for brutalist, hard edged bombast that makes it seem that way.

When his Superman does this:

3433378-4.jpg


Or this

tumblr_murmablNa31so0s3vo4_250.gif


or this

22df04d06d98dbe823196c490344278e.gif


Or this

ConstantDeliciousDove-size_restricted.gif


It's supposed to be heroic. Cool even.
I don't see the problem lol? I mean the first guy sexually assaulted a woman (not to mention Clark wasn't even Supes yet, so...). Second one is Zod literally trying to destroy the earth. What's the problem here again? Third one is him... avoiding being blown up by Zod? Okay? Plus the buildings are already evacuated/destroyed and Zod is literally the main threat at that moment... And the last guy is literally holding Lois hostage (and Supes didn't kill him anyway; Snyder confirmed it).

Sounds like you're the problem here bruh
 

Deleted member 36563

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2017
79
That "fan base" led a sustained campaign of harassment and bullying in order to get what they want. People were bullied into deleting social media accounts, received death threats, and were explicitly targeted for mockery and derision. There's a difference between liking someone's work and creating a deranged culture war.

Have you been on social media latley? That sort of toxicity is in most fan bases. There was also alot of positivity in the campaign but I guess that doesn't create headlines. Just because a number of trolls had an agenda to be toxic doesn't mean the rest fall in to this category.