Right, but before that the cop was surprised that she showed up.
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Zack Snyder's Justice League |OT| #ReleasedTheSnyderCut (HBO Max)
- Thread starter Penguin
- Start date
Looks like i've simply scrubbed these movies from my memory
edit: except for Batfleck. Batfleck is good.
If Whedon had made the movie from the ground up it would have been better than that theatrical I don't doubt. But that doesn't make it the case that the changes and additions he made aren't something you can hold him directly (though not necessarily solely) responsible for.
To be as kind as possible we know he didn't like Fisher while filming. Did that effect the choices he made with regards to Cyborg? I can't imagine it not. You can easily turn in a two hour cut that leaves Cyborg as central to the plot as he is in the four hour cut, without reinstating all the scenes Whedon cut, and you could have done it without making Barry a useless joke at the same time.
I think that's the point though.
Snyder didn't want to make Superman Returns 2, he wanted to make a franchise where the role of Superman is critically evaluated. Traditional Superman can't be phased, always knows what's right, and doesn't believe in no-win situations. Snyderman is more like a regular dude who has been given immense responsibilities and is forced to deal with philosophical problems and the 24/7 media circus.
The mountain scene in BvS basically spells it out more or less. I see the Snyderman arc as Superman trying to find his place. Should he disappear and stop playing God with people? Or should he march forward and accept the limitations of his abilities?
Not that the themes were masterfully handled or anything, but Snyderman not being Christopher Reeves was the explicit intent rather than a writing defect.
I agree that that was Snyder's intent and I think that it's a terrible way to treat the character. There's a way to critique Superman without 'corrupting' him, for lack of a better term, and it would have made for a better film in my opinion. WB clearly wants to see traditional Superman back.
I don't understand this argument.
It's Snyder's take on Superman - it's his character. It might not match up with what you expect/want Superman to be but that doesn't mean Snyder doesn't understand the character. That just means that his take on the character is different to what you want it to be.
Speaking of, blowing up part the bank to kill the final terrorist was incredibly excessive and offputting. She was clearly fast enough to knock him out before he could reload.
For real. Supes is ripe for interpretation and no single instance of the character is the "definitive take".
Snyder "understands" him just fine.
I don't know, I think Snyder's take on Superman does also reflect that he doesn't "get" the character. Even within the context of his own story. Not in the sense of "this isn't the Superman I know" but that he doesn't really know how to move the ball forward with Superman. At the end of his JL3 outline, Superman is basically in the same place that he was at the end of Man of Steel.
Just look at this one Justice League. Bruce is a different person than he was at the beginning of BvS. Diana is a different person. Cyborg is a different person. Even Arthur to an extent has changed. But Clark hasn't really changed at all from where we left off at the end of MoS. The events of these movies just brought us back to that same end point. JL2 and 3 would've done the same, except then with the added baggage of Clark being complicit in the world's destruction.
Conversely, even though Snyder's Batman is his own take on the character, I feel like he "gets" Batman and knows what to do with him more than with Superman.
Just because you have your own take on a character doesn't mean you also understand that character. There are plenty of examples of writers creating characters that they don't know what to do with.
It's over guys... WB is moving on without Zack and they have no plans for an Ayer cut of Suicide Squad
It the long con. Martian Manhunter got into a relationship with Pa Kent and has been raising Clark as his own from the start.
I'm happy that Zack got to complete his trilogy on a high note at least.
I look forward to JL2 in 2025 with Pattinson and MBJ
Yep lol. Fast enough the deflect bullets... can't traverse the 20 feet or whatever between her and the guy while he reloads.
I watched it over the course of two days last week, and while I still didn't care much for it, it is most certainly a marked improvement over the Whedon cut by a pretty significant margin. I still think you could have paired the film down to less than 4 hours (I think 3 hours was totally doable without compromising much), and, overall, the story is more cohesive and feels less disjointed both narratively and visually.
I also appreciated seeing more of Cyborg's story, and it's absolutely bullshit how Whedon fucked over Ray Fisher and the character. Understanding why Cyborg is the way he is is kind of vital to his characterization, and without it, he just came off as "boring" and "uninteresting" in the theatrical cut. I didn't think the epilogue added anything to the story told in the preceding 3.5 hours, and it could have been paired down/cut entirely. Steppenwolf is still a bland antagonist, and didn't feel particularly worthy of needing to be stopped by the fucking JUSTICE LEAGUE.
I didn't like the movie much, but I also didn't hate it, which, full disclosure, I very much expected to! Since this was Snyder's passion project, I can see why he indulged himself, but with some tighter editing and trimming some of the unnecessary fat (like the Knightmare sequences and sequel hooks), I think it would be a very solid, stand alone JL movie. Even so, it's still a much better film than Whedon's cut.
I also appreciated seeing more of Cyborg's story, and it's absolutely bullshit how Whedon fucked over Ray Fisher and the character. Understanding why Cyborg is the way he is is kind of vital to his characterization, and without it, he just came off as "boring" and "uninteresting" in the theatrical cut. I didn't think the epilogue added anything to the story told in the preceding 3.5 hours, and it could have been paired down/cut entirely. Steppenwolf is still a bland antagonist, and didn't feel particularly worthy of needing to be stopped by the fucking JUSTICE LEAGUE.
I didn't like the movie much, but I also didn't hate it, which, full disclosure, I very much expected to! Since this was Snyder's passion project, I can see why he indulged himself, but with some tighter editing and trimming some of the unnecessary fat (like the Knightmare sequences and sequel hooks), I think it would be a very solid, stand alone JL movie. Even so, it's still a much better film than Whedon's cut.
the way he looked reminded me a lot of 300, Snyder sure likes his ancient greeks to be RIPPED to the max jeeshMan, I really loved that flash back of the ancient war with the old Gods. Zeus was probably my favorite because of how sick they made his powers look. You could see all the bones and underlying anatomy in his arms! This shot was just awesome.
Expected but still sad. Glad we got three complete movies with Snyder and looking forward to some zombie killing again.
Honestly a bummer. I at least hope Henry Cavil stays on as Superman.
Because it is. To Superman these acts are like what helping an older someone cross the street is to us. In his mind he's just helping people, it's others that make it much more grander (through the talking, the worshipping) than it really is for him. And that's why the deification that happens to him troubles him so much.
Like I said at his core Snyder's Superman is a good man that's out to help people. And he shows that throughout his stint with the character.
I think I'm gonna miss Jeremy Irons the most, especially because of this movie.
That Superman is an unflappable goodguy is part of what has made him so enduring/endearing for so long. Turning him into a 'normal' person (which is just removing his staunch adherence to the morality that's been built up over 80 years if we're honest) puts him on the fastrack to Injustice Superman. Snyder should just have been honest with himself and his audience and say "Superman is lame!". Stringing us on has been dishonest, in my opinion.
Everyone keeps talking about Cyborg or Flash, but for me the biggest revelation of the Snyder cut is Steppenwolf. I get how Cyborg goes from a non-factor in one movie to a character with an arc in another. I get how cutting a four-hour film in half is going to sacrifice a ton of character detail. And I don't even think many of Whedon's changes to the film were bad, at least in theory. But Steppenwolf seems almost inexplicable, because his depiction in the Snyder cut is as the lamest, most pathetic comic book bad guy ever. But here he's like kind of a decent villain, and almost halfway empathetic. It's not like he's the most compelling antagonist ever made, I'm just shocked with how much better he is here than in the theatrical. And the difference is in seemingly a lot of small changes made around the margins, not one massive cut or something.
I think in a lot of areas of the film Whedon did what we could to satisfy both the studio's demands and audience's expectations in trying to create a new movie out of an existing one. But it does feel he made Steppenwolf much worse basically on purpose lol.
I think in a lot of areas of the film Whedon did what we could to satisfy both the studio's demands and audience's expectations in trying to create a new movie out of an existing one. But it does feel he made Steppenwolf much worse basically on purpose lol.
Snyder's take isn't even of Superman as a 'normal' person. This Superman is way more perturbed and dangerous than most normal people lol.
Yep.
Heck, I even think just saying "Cyborg has a character arc now" is selling it a bit short. Cyborg's character arc is one of the emotional cores of the entire movie. His dad narrates the epilogue through the lens of his journey!
At no point Snyder thinks Superman is lame. The core of Snyder's Superman is the exact same as it was over 80 years ago. He's not stringing anyone on by having Superman embrace his humanity just a bit more. And in the context of that universe this Superman makes perfect sense, while keeping the core intact.
If Cyborg can reassemble a tape recorder, can he reassemble his dad? :× They even used a burning house for an analogy.
That might be too macabre even for this movie, though
That might be too macabre even for this movie, though
Seriously. That shiz was just blatant.
My dude really gave us Cyborg and brought him out of the Titans and actually made it work! And creep, racist ass Whedon had to fuck it up.
This is kinda why I side eye anyone that minimizes Whedon's roll in what happened.
It's over but I'm glad we got this
It's flawed but a clear improvement in a lot of ways over the older cut
It's flawed but a clear improvement in a lot of ways over the older cut
I'm really not understanding folks who say "It's about as good as the Whedon version."
Just... fuckin' what?
Just... fuckin' what?
I'm sorry but it's not even a comparison, ZS version is so much better ( and should be, less meddling and almost 4 hours long lol)
I thought the original version was good but so many things just didn't make sense and felt like it was skipping through so much stuff.
ZS version is so much more detailed, as expected.
I thought cyborg was a big nothing, here he is probably the most important.
The only thing to stay the same IMO is that superman is super op lol. The resurrection fights holds true to that. He don't need them lol.
Loved all cyborg moments, flash still not fleshed out enough though.
CGI was decent enough for the most part, not a fan of the side bars though but still a great film.
Is it wrong to say those 4 hours felt quicker and felt less like a drag than endgame to me.
I thought the original version was good but so many things just didn't make sense and felt like it was skipping through so much stuff.
ZS version is so much more detailed, as expected.
I thought cyborg was a big nothing, here he is probably the most important.
The only thing to stay the same IMO is that superman is super op lol. The resurrection fights holds true to that. He don't need them lol.
Loved all cyborg moments, flash still not fleshed out enough though.
CGI was decent enough for the most part, not a fan of the side bars though but still a great film.
Is it wrong to say those 4 hours felt quicker and felt less like a drag than endgame to me.
Too expensive to create something of this magnitude from the ground up just for a streaming service I guess.
