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Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,707
I must be the only one mostly content with this that absolutely DOES NOT WANT a sequel.

I don't want amber turd and Letoker as main characters, I don't want evil superman, just fucking no.

Just keep this as "loose" lore and bring back Ray and Henry and give them their own fucking films. Please.

Maybe let Snyder make a Deathstroke HBO MAX Series with Joe, that'd potentially be the best fucking thing.

=(
I'm with you. That JL is as good as it is is surprising and hopeful for Snyder, but it still has major problems and this is absolutely not how I want DC characters to be realized longterm.

Snyder got his cut, he got to finish his trilogy of films and he ended on a better note than the other two films were, but there are so many talented, hungry directors who want to cut their teeth on these characters. Snyder got his turn three times over, it's past time to give someone else a go.
 

Jogi

Prophet of Regret
Member
Jul 4, 2018
5,452
Thought the original cut was decent, but absolutely loved the Snyder cut. Cyborg was actually fleshed out and got to shine here. I don't know if Snyder should be the one to head up these movies, but he absolutely has to be involved with the action sequences. Just need to have someone take away the slo-mo button from him haha.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,379
Man, what a mess. We're like 2/3rds of the way there to an actual good Justice League movie!

The first 1-2 hours of this movie are just... they don't work. Some of that is on Snyder, since it's just his worst stylistic impulses paired with a really, really week screenplay. But you can pass that blame around, because you're essentially doing a Flash movie, an Aquaman movie, and a Cyborg movie ON TOP of a Justice League movie. So your options are "jam all that shit in there and hope it works" or "just don't bother establishing anything." They try the first approach, and it mostly doesn't work, but, well, props for trying. Cyborg actually comes across fine, since he's so closely entwined with the main Motherbox storyline, but the other two REALLY needed their own movies if you wanted to make them more than props.

I also think the Superman stuff is pretty tacked on, and outside of nice gimmicks during the action sequences doesn't ever feel needed, narratively. You get Amy Adams pining for a while, then Superman is back, and he's very useful at punching things. Like frankly you need to split this into four movies to make that all work - Aquaman -> Flash -> Justice League (team up, fight Steppenwolf) -> Justice League 2 (revive Superman, fight Darkseid).

And like, the Knightmare sequence, Christ, we don't need that. There's so much we don't need. This is the opposite of "kill your darlings." It's "Oops! All Darlings!" the movie. But there's that stretch from Batman recruiting Flash up until the "ending montage with pithy monologue" that's a really, really solid superhero movie. And I liked that part, more than I expected, almost enough to cover up the first half.
 

Vidpixel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,637
Most definitely a step up from the original. Every character is finally given some depth and you actually care for them, 10-fold for Cyborg who got completely butchered in the old one.

That being said, I still have some grievances that stem from my issues with Snyder as a director in general at this point. His on-the-nose imagery and infatuation with cool imagery over all else is all still here, and that epilogue was pretty awkward and tacked on? Idk, it felt overly self-indulgent at times with its own existence, but at the end of the day, I'm happy for Zach Snyder and the fans that clamored for this for so long.
 

Carian Knight

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,986
Turkey
Overall, I enjoyed it and it was about what I was expecting, I give this a solid 10/7.

-The movie is a looker, yes there are a couple of bad CGI examples but I'm surprised that so many of the scenes have genuinely good-looking CGI. Also, there were some fantastic less CGI environments that looked so good with DV.

-I'm still not a huge fan of the overall plot but at least this time it works there are some great scenes like an old-gods battle, also this time there is some actual character development and I'm glad Fisher got redeemed no wonder he defended Snyder Cut so hard.

-There were just way too many slow-motion scenes, I desperately waited for an organic scene like a warehouse fight in BvS.

-With all due respect, Gadot's acting is just not working for me. She's really good at action scenes but her delivery is sub-par at best.
Kal-El No!!
-When you put Batman into a completely "god-like people fighting" environment you should either Iron Man-ify him which they mostly avoided or the character just acts as a wise man telling people what to do which is obviously not enjoyable. I like Batfleck and he deserved a solo film but I'm glad we're getting Reeves's more grounded, psychological and crime focused Batman.

- Knightmare scene doesn't work in this movie especially as an "epilogue". Lex is still a terrible character and no amount of work can save Jared's version of Joker especially with this kind of laughable at best dialogue.

-There are lines and scenes that I almost assumed they forgot to delete Whedon additions.

-After MoS and BvS I didn't expect the soundtracks department to fail but WW's constantly repeated theme was a bad decision, Since Batman rarely goes into action and Superman comes late there isn't a single theme that stuck with me after the movie.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,921
The Netherlands
Finished it tonight; enjoyed it. If the Wheon-version was a 5/10, this was a solid 7/10. I could do without that last Leto-Joker epilogue bit, and the movie felled crammed. I didn't mind the shabby-at-times CGI and I didnt mind the length; but it did feel slammed together at certain points. Still, easily the most enjoyable DCU/Snyder film.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,074
Man, what a mess. We're like 2/3rds of the way there to an actual good Justice League movie!

The first 1-2 hours of this movie are just... they don't work. Some of that is on Snyder, since it's just his worst stylistic impulses paired with a really, really week screenplay. But you can pass that blame around, because you're essentially doing a Flash movie, an Aquaman movie, and a Cyborg movie ON TOP of a Justice League movie. So your options are "jam all that shit in there and hope it works" or "just don't bother establishing anything." They try the first approach, and it mostly doesn't work, but, well, props for trying. Cyborg actually comes across fine, since he's so closely entwined with the main Motherbox storyline, but the other two REALLY needed their own movies if you wanted to make them more than props.

I also think the Superman stuff is pretty tacked on, and outside of nice gimmicks during the action sequences doesn't ever feel needed, narratively. You get Amy Adams pining for a while, then Superman is back, and he's very useful at punching things. Like frankly you need to split this into four movies to make that all work - Aquaman -> Flash -> Justice League (team up, fight Steppenwolf) -> Justice League 2 (revive Superman, fight Darkseid).

And like, the Knightmare sequence, Christ, we don't need that. There's so much we don't need. This is the opposite of "kill your darlings." It's "Oops! All Darlings!" the movie. But there's that stretch from Batman recruiting Flash up until the "ending montage with pithy monologue" that's a really, really solid superhero movie. And I liked that part, more than I expected, almost enough to cover up the first half.

Ah, the story-telling and character building = bad
CGI fight scenes = good justice league movie

narrative. it's like we're back to 2006 internet forums
 

Lionheart360

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,254
0qcxa3msdtn61.jpg
 

ezekial45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,752
Damn, Walter Chaw gave it a perfect score.

www.filmfreakcentral.net

Zack Snyder's Justice League (2021)

****/**** starring Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, Amy Adams screenplay by Chris Terrio directed by Zack Snyder by Walter Chaw It opens with soundwaves visualized as ripples in the air--Superman's (Henry Cavill) death cry touching every part of a blasted world as the protection and decency...

We get entire mainframes of strong, legible action (and the fall of Themyscira is fucking astounding for its visual coherence and respectful, even celebratory representation), but all that's really on ZSJL's mind is how important it is to care about each other and to see that this stranger before you is in pain, just like you. I regarded Snyder's Batman v Superman as this genuinely vile indulgence in the very worst of who we are that dragged the hopefulness of my youth through a sluice of bleak imagery and self-pity. I see in ZSJL a complete rebuke of that. The choice these oversized signifiers have is the same as ours, and it's a simple one: Knowing that everyone you meet is carrying the burden of their lives, do you approach that knowledge as a responsibility to honour or a weakness to exploit? These heroes are characters in our collective Passion Play. They are representatives, broad and magnified, of our best and worst parts; Snyder invites us to gaze upon them as intimations of our immortal, archetypal selves. Father, son, mother, daughter, wife, husband, widow, and widower. We try on a few of these identities over the course of our lives. And we look, as we have always looked, to simple fictions populated by magnifications of our desire for guidance. ZSJL is now the standard for telling these ridiculous stories, these Iliads and Aenieds we construct in place of any real national or cultural (and by extension personal) identity. It says there's strength in us if we don't despair. That if we don't see greatness in ourselves, we must allow others to see it in us. And though we may be exhausted, there are miles to go before we sleep.
 

Jeffolation

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,117
Damn, Walter Chaw gave it a perfect score.

www.filmfreakcentral.net

Zack Snyder's Justice League (2021)

****/**** starring Ben Affleck, Henry Cavill, Gal Gadot, Amy Adams screenplay by Chris Terrio directed by Zack Snyder by Walter Chaw It opens with soundwaves visualized as ripples in the air--Superman's (Henry Cavill) death cry touching every part of a blasted world as the protection and decency...
I knew he liked it but four stars, god damn.

edit: That was really well written and touching review.
 
Last edited:

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,379
Ah, the story-telling and character building = bad
CGI fight scenes = good justice league movie

narrative. it's like we're back to 2006 internet forums

The character building was good! When they're together, interacting, and growing as a team. Aquaman becomes less cynical, Flash gets pushed to his limits, Cyborg figures out his place in the world. Like, when the "inner view" for Cyborg turns all mechanized, that's a good moment.

The first two hours isn't character building, it's exposition. When you have this many characters and plot threads, you need to be able to tell your story on the go, and they really struggle to do that here.
 

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,436
USA
I don't want Superman's morality contingent on the survival of Lois Lane. She's special, I get it!

BUT SUPERMAN'S BETTER THAN THAT
I don't think it is...? In the vision Superman seems to succumb to grief, and Darkseid enthralls him with the anti-life equation during that grief. Farfetched, sure, but his morality doesn't collapse.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
I need a gif of Aquaman doing the "I'm gonna get you" finger point at Flash. That was hilarious.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,074
I don't think it is...? In the vision Superman seems to succumb to grief, and Darkseid enthralls him with the anti-life equation during that grief. Farfetched, sure, but his morality doesn't collapse.

Possible.

But there were enough hints in this story that Bruce was the cause of Lois' death, and that Clark turns based on that, rather than anything else. Which in itself is an uncomfortable prospect, but one many felt coming
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,135
Possible.

But there were enough hints in this story that Bruce was the cause of Lois' death, and that Clark turns based on that, rather than anything else. Which in itself is an uncomfortable prospect, but one many felt coming
It's because Darkseid amplifies those kinds of thoughts. Doubts, fears, anger consumes those that fall to Darkseid. They touch on it a bit in the story about how Darkseid bends and destroys willpower.
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
I actually shed a tear when Cyborg watched his dad die. Ugh, Snyder can be so good at this.
 
Oct 28, 2017
3,074
It's because Darkseid amplifies those kinds of thoughts. Doubts, fears, anger consumes those that fall to Darkseid. They touch on it a bit in the story about how Darkseid bends and destroys willpower.

There's a moment where Superman is standing above Steppenwolf, beating him to a pulp, and the camera just pans to the faces of the others to invoke this sense of uncontrolled rage on his part. And him still donning the black suit during the iconic shirt-rip? I don't know, I think there's enough here to make you wonder just how much of the original Superman is left in him.
 

Spehornoob

Member
Nov 15, 2017
8,945
Finished it! Yup, that's a Snyder movie! It's not my thing, but fans of his stuff are gonna love it, and its at least more coherent than BvS.

That said, there were two moments I can think of that I really liked:

1. The "trunk" shot where Lois Lane seems to be fetching Superman's suit, but when she pulls it out, it's just a flannel shirt.

2. I really liked the visuals of Barry going faster than light and reversing time at the end. I don't think the film really earned this moment, like it doesn't seem to be a real culmination of his character arc (he doesn't have much of one), but I love the way it looks. Even though I don't really like "everything's fucked, immediately turn back time" moments usually.
 

WinFonda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,436
USA
Possible.

But there were enough hints in this story that Bruce was the cause of Lois' death, and that Clark turns based on that, rather than anything else. Which in itself is an uncomfortable prospect, but one many felt coming
Those 'hints' are mostly from Joker tho. Who is, at best, an unreliable source of information. He's just trying to get under Bruce's skin. He says to Bruce that he caused everything "by letting her die." The implication to me being that Bruce was given a Cornelian dilemma (likely one presented by Joker himself) that led to Lois's death. Lois's death, of course, spiraling the rest of events. That doesn't imply or say anything about the nature of Superman's turn though.
 

Brickhunt

Member
Feb 4, 2018
999
Brazil
Watched yesterday. Not a perfect movie, but very enjoyable and far much better than the theatrical cut. I'm thankful for Snyder and all the fans who fought to make this cut happen.

Now here is a really really hot take...I kind of wish, In ideal world in which there would be more follow-ups, Superman was not in this movie. Yeah, I know it's a blasphemy a Justice League without superman...but I hate when the villain(s) are easily curb stomped by the overpowered hero. I hated in captain Marvel and I hated here. I would prefer save him for a future confrontation with Darkseid

Steppenwolf was powerful, but not invincible. I feel that, as they became more experienced as a team, the league minus supes could still potentially pull a win against him. As awesome seeing Superman unleashed is...I would rather this not happen with the main villain.
 

subpar spatula

Refuses to Wash his Ass
Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,129
I am still surprised that just months ago people were laughing at this, calling Steppenwolf a GFX box art, and calling Snyder a hack fraud. Snyder did it. The mad man actually did it.
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
Just started.

...... what was up with that Icelandic woman sniffing Aquaman's sweater?
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,119
Possible.

But there were enough hints in this story that Bruce was the cause of Lois' death, and that Clark turns based on that, rather than anything else. Which in itself is an uncomfortable prospect, but one many felt coming
It's because Darkseid amplifies those kinds of thoughts. Doubts, fears, anger consumes those that fall to Darkseid. They touch on it a bit in the story about how Darkseid bends and destroys willpower.
4144022-darkseid_anti_life01.jpg
 

Royalan

I can say DEI; you can't.
Moderator
Oct 24, 2017
11,960
Wow...I thought the score in this was pretty lackluster until the Flash reversing time sequence. What a hold-your-breath moment.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877


How can WB not continue with the vision of Snyder, reviewed better than the theatrical film and everybody loves it, DC doesn't really have a plan of their own, We already witnessed how DC trying to mimic a Marvel movie turned out.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,620


How can WB not continue with the vision of Snyder, reviewed better than the theatrical film and everybody loves it, DC doesn't really have a plan of their own, We already witnessed how DC trying to mimic a Marvel movie turned out.

Do we know if it is successful yet? I'm really curious how this performs (and also how its performance is even judged).

My only hesitation with a Snyder JL sequel is I just don't care about this Knightmare/evil Superman stuff at all, but he still sounds like he's pretty committed to that direction.
 

bob100

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,726
Just watched it and it was enjoyable prob a 7/10 at most

Some poor CGI in places which was off-putting but on the whole not bad. Definitely not the best super hero movie but not the worst either.