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WorldofMiku

attempted ban circumvention by using an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
824
Ys Net is just doing whatever they can to get from being sued. There's nothing to really "assess" here. They have two options...either give everyone who backed the game on PC a refund no questions asked or give those people Steam Keys at launch. Anything other than that won't cut it and they'll just end up in court.
They will win in court if you sue them. The 2014 Kickstarter terms protects them.
Basically in the terms, it said if they can't provide the reward you ask for, they should at least find the best possible alternative.
They have, it's called the Epic Games Store.
 

Walnut

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
878
Austin, TX
They will win in court if you sue them. The 2014 Kickstarter terms protects them.
Basically in the terms, it said if they can't provide the reward you ask for, they should at least find the best possible alternative.
They have, it's called the Epic Games Store.
I'm not sure taking a fat payday and then switching the product is the same thing as being unable to deliver the product as promised. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think a lawyer would have much trouble tearing that argument to shreds
 

BorisTheZombie

Alt Account
Banned
May 17, 2019
15
I'm glad I got this on PS4 from their kickstarter, not exactly like much can change in regard to that. They did say I get a backer exclusive case so we'll see if they live up to that or not.
 

WorldofMiku

attempted ban circumvention by using an alt
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
824
User Banned (3 days): Ignoring staff post
I'm not sure taking a fat payday and then switching the product is the same thing as being unable to deliver the product as promised. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think a lawyer would have much trouble tearing that argument to shreds
The terms we agreed to, say
If a creator is unable to complete their project and fulfill rewards, they've failed to live up to the basic obligations of this agreement. To right this, they must make every reasonable effort to find another way of bringing the project to the best possible conclusion for backers.

  • they work diligently and in good faith to bring the project to the best possible conclusion in a timeframe that's communicated to backers;
  • they offer to return any remaining funds to backers who have not received their reward (in proportion to the amounts pledged), or else explain how those funds will be used to complete the project in some alternate form.
That last bullet point just kind of kills it.
I mean, the original campaign said just Windows PC, and on top of that the project will be completed in some alternate form AKA Epic Games Store.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
Ubisoft stuff seems to be on a per case basis, since Starlink was added to Steam after the TD2 debacle. and actually it is or was on sale this week.
Starlink makes sense for Steam, since they are probably desperately trying to liquidate all the physical toys off of store shelves. I doubt that Steam will be able to pick up many games that aren't reliant on physical merch.
I'm not sure taking a fat payday and then switching the product is the same thing as being unable to deliver the product as promised. I'm not a lawyer but I don't think a lawyer would have much trouble tearing that argument to shreds
From a legal perspective, each backing pledge creates a "contract" between the creator and backer, based off of the Kickstarter campaign page. If backers were promised a Steam key in the backer survey on Fangamer.com and/or the SlackerBacker campaign, I think that provides them some leeway to change platforms. But I'm not sure exactly how pledging on the SlackerBacker page really works, or if they covered their bases in the Terms of Service.

I think that ultimately the problem is that a court might see a change of distribution platform as inconsequential. Not to mention the larger issue of who is going to pay for the lawyers that might be involved in a potential trial. Trials are mega-expensive for all parties involved.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
22,571
There probably wasn't any money that changed hands here. That only happens much later if the games falls to sell a certain #.

As far as I know Epic pays in advance for certain amount of copies. Then devs don't get any money from sold copies until that number is reached.
 
Jun 17, 2018
3,244
Massive bullshit move from deep silver, very disrespectful to pull a stunt like this so far into the project after committing to steam keys in writing.

I almost want to pull my ps4 copy after all this, plus from what I've heard, the game looks crap anyway.
 

brokenswiftie

Prophet of Truth
Banned
May 30, 2018
2,921
The Multi-Launcher future right now:

- Origin and uPlay stagnating
- Bethesda crawling back to Steam
- GoG with financial issues and abandoning the plans to make their games exclusive to GoG
- Discord imploding
- Razor imploding
- itch.io never on financial solid grounds
- Developers who are not bound to Acti-blizzard anymore abandoning the store for Steam the first chance they get
- Microsoft embracing the Steam partnership
- and EGS trying to buy a piece of the cake with a billion dollars of exclusives... and failing.
I wouldn't agree uPlay is stagnating at all
In fact, its the only publisher launcher I fully support that keeps evolving and updating all the time
some of uPlay's stuff I like

-You get coins for playing games which you can spend to get 20% discount on other games or some exclusive mini-DLCs
-you can still buy uPlay keys from GMG, Fanatical etc
-They have these useful PC building guides in news section
-some pretty good deals all the time
-has a decent loyalty program other than coins (but you can potentially use this on other launchers too i guess)
-Has a 2FA, cart, search Preloads, overlay, cloud saves, fps counter, screenshots, achievements etc stuff we take granted from steam
-have their own newsletters, blogs, updates etc on the store itself
-sometimes anything you buy on steam also gets added on uplay automatically (happened to me with WD2)

the only downsides for me would be I say a separate friends list and no forums
 
Nov 1, 2017
848
I'll be very surprised if this turns out to be anything other than a stalling tactic to stem the tide of hate currently rolling over them only to come back a week later saying "We've assessed the situation and determined that no changes are needed" in the hope that everyone will just move on.
 

jediyoshi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,119
At best I can imagine them crafting a statement that pressures Epic into comping whatever they'd lose by allowing refunds and nothing else. Money's gotta come from somewhere.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Ys net probably had no clue that PC gamers had such big issues with digital store and launcher exclusivities. Seems like they were completely out of the loop on the EGS controversy. Hopefully they can cancel the exclusivity and put it up on Steam on day 1.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
I think it's highly likely that Epic scores an exclusive on the PC version of Red Dead Redemption 2 as well. That would be bigger than Borderlands 3, IMO.

And that would be the best outcome for everyone (most) all around.
Epic would tank soooooo much money on that one exclusive that a dozen other games would not be snatched up.
 

Amauri14

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,694
Danbury, CT, USA
Depending on how big that Epic money was , I am guessing they are going to give refunds. Giving backers Steam keys kinda beats the point of the Epic deal in the first place. Dont think Epic would allow them to do that.
I mean they allowed the people who pre-ordered Metro on Steam to have it there, so there is always a chance that they just give the keys to the backers.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
And that would be the best outcome for everyone (most) all around.
Epic would tank soooooo much money on that one exclusive that a dozen other games would not be snatched up.
They don't necessarily have to give Take2 some huge money bag, so much as they have to guarantee sales that are 20-30% lower than they would be on Steam.

In some way, the model for Epic's exclusivity agreements kinda works better for big games, since it is probably easier for them to estimate sales potential for big franchises. Nobody really knows how much indie titles might sell, but it's probably easier to peg the sales of an established franchise.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I mean they allowed the people who pre-ordered Metro on Steam to have it there, so there is always a chance that they just give the keys to the backers.
It costs them nothing to give out Steam keys to backers. Issuing refunds would directly take money out of their bank account. I think they will find some way or another to give out Steam keys.
 

Kareha

Banned
Jun 15, 2018
1,460
United Kingdom
It's a shame SEGA can't say "Oi can you stop fucking up our IP please.". I assume they still own the actual Shenmue IP or did they sell it?
 
Jun 26, 2018
3,829
I'll be very surprised if this turns out to be anything other than a stalling tactic to stem the tide of hate currently rolling over them only to come back a week later saying "We've assessed the situation and determined that no changes are needed" in the hope that everyone will just move on.
It's stalling for sure, but if they end up coming out with a statement like that, they would pretty much only be rebooting the anger.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,348
It's a shame SEGA can't say "Oi can you stop fucking up our IP please.". I assume they still own the actual Shenmue IP or did they sell it?

Sega definitely doesn't care in the slightest for the shenmue franchise. If they did, they would have at least taken on publishing duties for the game.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
It's stalling for sure, but if they end up coming out with a statement like that, they would pretty much only be rebooting the anger.
I doubt that they would have issued this statement if they weren't completely sure that they could alter the deal at least for the Kickstarter backers. If they come back in a week and say "Nevermind, no refunds, you're all fucked" that would be insanity. They almost certainly have something up their sleeve, though I don't expect it will satisfy everyone.
 

Shadoken

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,206
I'll be very surprised if this turns out to be anything other than a stalling tactic to stem the tide of hate currently rolling over them only to come back a week later saying "We've assessed the situation and determined that no changes are needed" in the hope that everyone will just move on.

Nah if they were going to do that , they would have just kept quiet on the matter.

Saying "Hey we'll do something about it" and then going "Welp sorry nothings changing" only makes it 10 times worse.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608
Nah if they were going to do that , they would have just kept quiet on the matter.

Saying "Hey we'll do something about it" and then going "Welp sorry nothings changing" only makes it 10 times worse.
Keeping quiet will get more journalists on their tail especially after Ys Net denying refunds. This is another application of bait and switch, promise that they will do something but keep quiet until the game release.
 
Nov 1, 2017
848
Nah if they were going to do that , they would have just kept quiet on the matter.

Saying "Hey we'll do something about it" and then going "Welp sorry nothings changing" only makes it 10 times worse.
They didn't say they were going to do anything about it, they said they were going to assess the situation. Assessing does not mean fixing, they're not even admitting that anything is wrong.
 

Deleted member 3196

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,280
Keeping quiet will get more journalists on their tail especially after Ys Net denying refunds. This is another application of bait and switch, promise that they will do something but keep quiet until the game release.
Them communicating a second bait and switch will also get the press on them, as the E3 news cycle dies down.

I don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. They are just making it up as they go along.
 

Bowl0l

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,608
Them communicating a second bait and switch will also get the press on them, as the E3 news cycle dies down.

I don't think there's any 4D chess going on here. They are just making it up as they go along.
No one can call out of the bait and switch since they didn't promise a date to decide. Next they will update that they are in the middle of a discussion. Then during the Epic launch, they drop the bad news.
 

Shaneus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,896
Honestly, at this point even if they offer a Steam key or whatever I think I hate the handling of this so much I won't be able to play it.
 

YuSuzzune

Member
Nov 21, 2018
4,850
This whole situation is hilarious. They claimed Epic Store was the best platform to play the game and still not a single person from each customer care can provide a clear, exaustive answer, they are all linking each other passing the blame. This is the videogame industry in a nutshell.

I really hope the Shenmue 3 case will serve as example because the videogame industry needs laws and regulations, it's not possible to use exploit in order to avoid paying taxes or, like in this case, modify an existing "contract" just because you received a fat paycheck.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,230
Since Epic is the best place to play, they surely it wouldn't hurt to offer steam key or epic key option,
because no one would pick steam key anyway when given option.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
What in the actual fuck? Why would they link that?

Working for Customer Support for 10 years: either a disgruntled CS rep or human error with copy/paste.
Second is more likely, either the second link wasn't supposed to be in there or another link was supposed to be linked. And the CS rep had the link copied because he was sharing it with his colleagues.
 

Catshade

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,198
The customer support people are also busy at E3. You all need to wait until they get back to their office and assess the situation.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,093
Working for Customer Support for 10 years: either a disgruntled CS rep or human error with copy/paste.
Second is more likely, either the second link wasn't supposed to be in there or another link was supposed to be linked. And the CS rep had the link copied because he was sharing it with his colleagues.

That's my guess.
 

Alvis

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,223
Spain
Yo, YsNet

cCmhvQq.gif
 
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