Sure, because they're dicking backers over. But trying to downplay the bait and switch with "oh well all retail PC games are just codes so who could have expected a working disc" isn't going to fly.
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Ys net has heard the concerns regarding Epic Games Store exclusivity for Shenmue III and will assess the situation [Read Staff Post Before Posting]
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Sure, because they're dicking backers over. But trying to downplay the bait and switch with "oh well all retail PC games are just codes so who could have expected a working disc" isn't going to fly.
Yea that's bull shits. Quite a few big named projects on kickstarter occurred already. Remember that potato salad kickstarter?
I mean, if you're not on certain internet forums it's easy to miss that some people are unhappy with EGS. In dev circles there's a lot of excitement around it.
L-O-L It's not good at all. They have been rude and unapologetic and are only "listening" due to the mass amount of hatred and negative press.
They are now trying to salvage what they can.
Offering refunds is literally the ONLY call.
They will be no trust given to any of these associated companies in the future.
The damage has been done regardless of the outcome!
Usually when going to game conventions and showing off your game to the press, it's usually some producer, the game director, maybe a few other devs (art director, QA manager), and support staff. For the whole EGS fiasco I'd have the CEO deal with. No idea if Ys Net's CEO is actually at E3 or not. They still should've expected this kind of reaction though, and have had a "backer-appeasement" plan ready. I can't decide if it's arrogance or ignorance that they didn't have a refund solution ready.
I'd settle for a steam key though, and not a year later after it releases. Backers should not have to wait in the back of the line helping make this happen in the first place.
Ah, I misunderstood your post then. I thought you posted that to show that YsNet was assuring people they'd still get a standalone physical release for PC.
What if they offer the Steam version to backers? And physical, obviously.
Yeah, it's a nasty situation and yet another reminder of the problems of the Kickstarter model. But at least Ys net has taken notice, and has a chance of fixing some of the damage.
I'd be ok with waiting a year to get the Deluxe on Steam too.
Like, another shitty thing is all the backers will only get the normal edition because the Deluxe wasn't even a thing until less than a week ago when it was revealed, and I still remember the plan to offer more contents if some goals were reached. So they got Deep Silver money and locked some content behind a season pass for everyone, even for 500$ backers.
If you want to settle for a key which you can probably only generate a year and a half from now, and are happy with being treated like filth, then sure I guess.
This is a matter of principle and making a stand for what is right and what is wrong.
Settling for nothing other than a refund is the only way to drive this home.
They don't deserve a cent of your hard earned money for their disgusting behavior!
It's not about being unhappy about the EGS. It's about the fact that backers have been lead to believe to get steam keys which turned out to be a switch and bait to their own benefit.
That it's EGS is to me on principle irrelevant here. The way I see it given that the backers are your core benefactors(as in most loyal customers) is you owe it to them to have a talk about it and check how they would feel about it as it relates directly to the product they will be receiving.
Change EGS to anything else and it would be a bad look regardless given that it would still boil down to not valuing your backers in favor of receiving more money for yourself.
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Epic is literally purchasing users with those "exclusive", not the game itself. Let's say 70000 backers opted to get a Steam key. Those 70000 backers will now get an Epic key. If, let's say, 20000 of them never used the store and will get on just to play Shenmue 3 Epic will "gain" 50000 users, so they can inflate their numbers.
I edited my post with to clarify that physical should obviously be honored.
As for making a stand, I'd say it depends on how they plan to fix this mess.
I imagine ignorance, at least for the people at Ys Net. After spending so many years with Sega and how little experience he has in the PC space, I don't think they would have their finger on the pulse of the PC industry. I'm sure the people at Deep Silver knew what would happen and didn't give two shits about it.
You make a good point on letting the CEO handle the issue. I tried looking up who that may be and it's not really easy to get info on Ys Net's current staff, at least so far.
At this point I'll take a choice between getting the EGS version at launch or the Steam version one year later. If they do that, I'll chose the second option.
But they better include the PC physical backers in whatever solution they do, because that's what I backed for. I want a physical copy that activates on Steam.
But they better include the PC physical backers in whatever solution they do, because that's what I backed for. I want a physical copy that activates on Steam.
"assess the situation and together find a way forward to justify the trust you placed in us."
Yeah, at this point, I have 0 trust. There is nothing to assess, either provide Steam Keys including Early Access/Demo/Whatever in $100+ pledges or get us refunds. This is one situation certainly where I went from quite a good amount of hype to negative really quickly.
Yeah, at this point, I have 0 trust. There is nothing to assess, either provide Steam Keys including Early Access/Demo/Whatever in $100+ pledges or get us refunds. This is one situation certainly where I went from quite a good amount of hype to negative really quickly.
What? NO! This is not a good take on waiting that long for a key when at that point game is going to be $20 on Steam. Why should backers wait a freaking year when we were the first to support? This is the worst possible route.
That's the absolute minimum to avoid being railroaded into the EGS or otherwise rewarding Epic for this behavior. The preferred resolution is a full refund.
There has also just been a controversy with Metro and Phoenix Point. They know what's going on but didn't think backlash would be this strong. So yeah, I want a refund at this juncture. Since it's unlikely they will honor the pledges for pre-release access anyways.
Pretty much. They have abused people's trust and need to make this right. Selling out your biggest fans who made the game a reality with some putting up hundreds of dollars is legit fucking disgusting behaviour.
These people deserve their money back. Fuck Epic and their shitty store as well.
That is not an acceptable solution. If they want to provide their freaking backers the product a year later than everyone else, then they should offer a refund. I don't even want that solution. What is the point? If I want it in a year I can pay Steam sales price and grab it (won't happen now).
Ys Net is just doing whatever they can to get from being sued. There's nothing to really "assess" here. They have two options...either give everyone who backed the game on PC a refund no questions asked or give those people Steam Keys at launch. Anything other than that won't cut it and they'll just end up in court.
100% agree. Hell, I have 2 freaking Steam keys in my pledge (second through added slacker backer campaign), physical copy and early access. F this.
I don't really know how they can fix this without breaking any contracts and paying a lot of money out of pocket.
I guess the real issue is that Deepsilver decided to not honor promises/obligations made prior from YS Net. So they made the EGS deal and not YS Net is on the hook.
I feel bad bad for YS Net as they probably just want to concentrate on development and delegate the publishing to another party. I bet they are now getting pounded by endless questions regard the EGS situation at E3 and probably can't demo their game properly.
I guess the real issue is that Deepsilver decided to not honor promises/obligations made prior from YS Net. So they made the EGS deal and not YS Net is on the hook.
I feel bad bad for YS Net as they probably just want to concentrate on development and delegate the publishing to another party. I bet they are now getting pounded by endless questions regard the EGS situation at E3 and probably can't demo their game properly.
wow i didn't know egs beat itch.io's cut
that's crazy I can understand taking it off itch.io then
That's fair enough. I'm just looking at what can be done to deny Epic a return on their "investment" in a worst case scenario.
Why do you feel bad for Ys.net? They clearly knew what THQ and Deep Silver was about when they got into bed with them. They (according to Ys.net) held discussions with Epic and Deep Silver about EGS exclusive run. This shit is on them as much as on Deep Silver. Meh.
Since they got that Fortnite/Tencent cash, they can offer refund to backers. It's that simple. I don't give a shit about these two companies anymore (I am done with THQ and any game they back).
Well, they basically have 2 options to save face.
1. offer full refunds to PC backers who want it (which makes it financially right, but still very very disappointing for many)
2. give the backers steam keys. (Not completely unprecedented, since early steam Metro Preorders still got their steam copies despite it ultimately being an Epic exclusive.). But I guess that was different situation (actual steam preorders, vs. fulfilling something with funds that were collected for crowdfunding. ) Honestly, if I was Steam, and Ys Net/Deep Silver approached and said, can you fulfill these few backers, I' d probably tell them to kiss my ass, since they yanked the game away from Steam to make a deal with Epic. But who knows? They may relent in an effort to be the "good guy" here.
1. offer full refunds to PC backers who want it (which makes it financially right, but still very very disappointing for many)
2. give the backers steam keys. (Not completely unprecedented, since early steam Metro Preorders still got their steam copies despite it ultimately being an Epic exclusive.). But I guess that was different situation (actual steam preorders, vs. fulfilling something with funds that were collected for crowdfunding. ) Honestly, if I was Steam, and Ys Net/Deep Silver approached and said, can you fulfill these few backers, I' d probably tell them to kiss my ass, since they yanked the game away from Steam to make a deal with Epic. But who knows? They may relent in an effort to be the "good guy" here.
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Thank goodness they are looking into this. They won't win everyone back but this is the right step forward at the very least.
I'd love to be a fly on the wall of any or all of the discussions publishers and devs are having with EGS; I imagine everyone is keenly aware of the controversy these agreements have caused and I wonder if any of them have tried to talk to Epic about smoothing it out.
And even though Epic has spent cash on these deals I do wonder if it would be in their best interest to show some sort of "Good Will" on exclusivity deals.
And even though Epic has spent cash on these deals I do wonder if it would be in their best interest to show some sort of "Good Will" on exclusivity deals.
Because they never do. This kickstarter has ignored fan input for years.
I backed this and Bloodstained at the same time, and how each group has treated their fanbase is like night and day.
This is a huge sticking point for me.
Kickstarter backers are not being treated as either investors or customers, but as a product to be sold to the highest bidder.
It's extremely insulting to be on the receiving end of that after having already chipped in a decent amount of money to the campaign.
The Phoenix Point AMA (that was a huge shitshow) revealed that epic forced them to sign an NDA before sitting at the table so they couldn't consult other backers as to whether they can take the deal.
They must be extremely shut out from the "real world" or so much detached from their potential fanbase that Developers only see the excitement of the money Epic is throwing around and not of the dozens of backlashes that are all over the Internet.
For real. I've had better help from other kickstarters. There's no reason why a kickstarter this big should be ignoring it's backs. Hire someone to deal with it.
Like a community manager.
This is the entire point. They are going after kick-started campaigns to bring that audience from Steam to Epic. Same reason they target successful mid tier and high tier devs and pubs. You bought XXXs last game on steam, now buy their latest one on Epic. If you don't bring a built in audience, Epic does not want to know you. All those indie devs with stars in their eyes when Epic launched are strangely silent now, finally realising it was never about store cut, it was only about supplanting steam as the default PC store.
And I'm sure if that 0.0001% chance happens and Epic succeeds in their quest the cut will stay at 12%. Hint: it won't.
Forced at gunpoint, or just the money epic were offering was contingent on signing the NDA?
Man the negativity on certain topics on this site is just something to be embarrassed about. While at E3 they send out a message that they will try and look into this issue when they get back home, and people still decide to spew the same things that were said in the first place. Give them a minute before you go off the deep end.
This is obviously a Publisher related decision, so hopefully Yu Suzuki can speak with the powers that be, and give the backers what they were promised.
Also none of the other positive topics about Shenmue III over the years has ever garnered this much response...This seems to be more of a EGS related problem than it is backers getting screwed. That being said I'm sure that are legitimate backers who are affected by this, but if you are real Shenmue fan then you've gained at least a little bit of patience.
This is obviously a Publisher related decision, so hopefully Yu Suzuki can speak with the powers that be, and give the backers what they were promised.
Also none of the other positive topics about Shenmue III over the years has ever garnered this much response...This seems to be more of a EGS related problem than it is backers getting screwed. That being said I'm sure that are legitimate backers who are affected by this, but if you are real Shenmue fan then you've gained at least a little bit of patience.
Ys Net ran the kickstarter. If they have made the decision to bow to the whims of a publisher without ensuring that they would still be able to do right by their backers, that's on them.
People are right to kick up a fuss, otherwise Ys Net would just continue without any regard for their backers.
"Non Issue"..." Game journalist"...two oxymorons in a single post, congrats.
Edit: seriously though...your argument is lacking. Perhaps you'd like to put your journalistic abilities to task here and persuade us?
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