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Your tone of voice determines the pronouns assigned to you in Cyberpunk 2077
- Thread starter Glio
- Start date
I guess this is the result of their starting with a Mass Effect-style binary choice and then only retroactively making changes to the character creator when people told them to do more. Which is how they've arrived at this awkward state, where any good added by the extra body creation options is brought down by the binary voice limits.
At this point, I think one possible solution would be to add a slider to alter the voice pitch/tone. It sounds simple, on paper, but I don't know if it'd work.
At this point, I think one possible solution would be to add a slider to alter the voice pitch/tone. It sounds simple, on paper, but I don't know if it'd work.
User Banned (permenant): Concern trolling; Account in junior phase.
Isn't that offensive, mentioning their nationality in a negative tone.
The game gives me a "gta in the future" vibe, I know it's early but it doesn't seem to embrace the identity culture the cyberpunk genre can display.
Just the "treasure hunt" plot already gives me some red flags, they are going completely "apolitical" or at least surface level on this.
The current issue, if it is how it's applied in the game, just highlights it, you can choose your "appearance" but you can't choose to be trans, the game appears to be saying something and letting you be free, but it isn't.
Just the "treasure hunt" plot already gives me some red flags, they are going completely "apolitical" or at least surface level on this.
The current issue, if it is how it's applied in the game, just highlights it, you can choose your "appearance" but you can't choose to be trans, the game appears to be saying something and letting you be free, but it isn't.
Something of an oversight, but I don't necessarily see that as being any more transphobic than games which lock players into a more rigid binary. Which isn't to excuse it, and fingers crossed they add the toggle, but as I understand, they still give a good bit of choice in this regard. Would be nice to have more, of course, but I don't know if I'd especially castigate them over missing this. So hopefully they can offer the option with their few more months of polish.
Trying to turn the criticism around to them actually being offensive instead. Mentioning them being Polish in that post had no such negative connonations that you implied. The post you quoted clearly refers to the very specific group of developers of this game (who happen to be Polish) & isn't some grand judgment of all Polish people. It isn't offensive, just like mentioning them being white isn't racist.
Why try and incorporate trans if you're going to attach it to the weird stipulation that the fucking universe decides your gender, not you? Just give full control to the player, unless you're actively trying to make a social commentary, which you're obviously not. I doubt a title targeting this much broad appeal is actively trying to crush the idea that trans people have agency over their own, actual identity, so I'm going to assume this is an extraordinary case of social obliviousness instead. One they really need to fix bc I don't want this in the final product I buy.
Also... um... what if you're like a regular cis-man/woman with a particularly high or deep voice, is this game gonna fuck with you too?
Also... um... what if you're like a regular cis-man/woman with a particularly high or deep voice, is this game gonna fuck with you too?
That's nonsense, there was no need whatsoever for their nationality to be mentioned but it was anyway. In a post that's supposedly focused on people being offensive and insensitive.
If they went the traditional way (foregoing the punk part) of choosing pronoun and assigning a voice to that, that would be massively better. Disappointing, but better. Instead they seem to give you the choice of voice and assume your gender based on that. That is a huge issue.
So far the only commendable thing I've seen is the decoupling of voice and body type.
So you would be satisfied if they just snipped "voice" off of the option?
No, is a step backwards masquerading as a step forward, and that's even more harmful because it leads to post like yours, only twisted to say things like "see trans people are never happy, why try?"
Ideally it'd be easy to have a preferred pronoun option at character creation. But I wonder if they've programmed it so the pronoun is tied voice over actor you choose. It might be done in a way that'd be too expensive and difficult to uncouple. This is just a guess of course and it'd be best if they clear it up.
It is disappointing they weren't able to let you pick all of it separately and let you pick a preferred pronoun as well.
It is disappointing they weren't able to let you pick all of it separately and let you pick a preferred pronoun as well.
It's not nonsense. That didn't make the post insensitive or offensive.
Not really. That is to say CDPR specifically mentioned gender identity as something they wanted to tackle (if memory serves me right that was in fact a reaction to the transphobic twitter history and issues taken with the artwork). For them to miss the boat so massively is upsetting.
Had they not spoken about it and not offered the option, the whole optics of this entire thing would be much different and easier to accept.
Don't forget that the whole issue of pronouns came up very late in development (doesn't feel so late with all the delays, but still...). The game wasn't built around it.
It might be a small thing when we play in English, but for gendered language versions (including the studio's native Polish) it would require going over V's entire script and adding new voice work for every time they gender themself, and that's just for binary pronouns. Adding a non-binary option would require a total rewrite because gendered languages are an absolute nightmare, especially when they haven't even developed non-binary pronouns or a way for a person to speak comfortably without constantly tripping over pronouns.
This is all a short-sighted mess and right now I'd feel more comfortable with them just sticking with a binary gender toggle than watching them try to be "progressive" by way of Saints Row's character creator.
Oh for sure. Best, of course, would be to offer the ability to choose both. It is very much an issue, and one I hope they change. I like to think it's an oversight, however, and I don't know if I'd automatically bucket CDPR as necessarily more transphobic than companies which don't even have that decoupling to begin with, which is to say, most of them. So these particular charges towards them seems...well, let's hope it can spur positive change, not just with CDPR, but across the industry.
This pretty much undermines the whole point. I thought this was supposed to be the first thing they fixed.
This is combined with several months of "attack helicopter" level social media posts and the fetishizing ad copy that still seems to exist inside the game. This isn't a single instance of CDPR acting transphobic. It's one of many instances, after being called out on it.
It's kind of mind blowing that they were called out for making mistakes and didn't bring on board anyone to consult them on the mistakes they keep making.
Even if this doesn't turn out to be true, although it seems like something they would do, there's already so much controversy surrounding the game and CDPR that I've been hesitant about this game for a while.
I think (although I'm not a member of the transgender community, so feel free to tell me I'm wrong) that this seems a lot more transphobic than the binary options that most games have. Not only were CDPR originally suggesting that you didn't have to choose a gender, this chooses a gender for you in the stupidest way. Someone who is transgender can still have a masculine or feminine voice before, during and after transition. It's basically saying that even if you're, say, a transgender man, because your voice may be a higher pitch, or more feminine then the game uses the pronouns for a woman even though it's wrong.
This is fair to look at it. I am also not trans, so I'm not in a position to say whether not offering a pronoun choice with body decoupling is more or less transphobic than offering neither a choice nor decoupling. I'd be curious to get some other people's thoughts on the matter and learn more since I can't know myself.
Getting real tired of this "It would have cost too much money to do this system right." Or "it was too late in development to fix." Arguments as if CDPR didn't sell 50 million copies of the Witcher 3, and that they are somehow still a tiny indie tier developer....
I mean every time there has been controversy surrounding the game there have been people defending them.and pleading that they were ignorant because they are a Polish developer and Poland isn't as progressive. It comes up every single time and is a shitty defense
CDPR really are stupid as fuck. This is part of a pattern of bullshit and bigoted behaviour from CDPR. The fuck are they doing?
Mentioning that they're Polish (a country whose President and governing party are LGBT haters, and where dozens of municipalities have enacted LGBT-free zones) is offensive?
Mentioning that they're Polish (a country whose President and governing party are LGBT haters, and where dozens of municipalities have enacted LGBT-free zones) is offensive?
To do it right (male female conversations with varying tones) might involve recording 100 percent more dialogue
Why can't they make it like Animal Crossing where you are just seen as V or "the Villager" in your own world? It would make things easier for the writing staff since they don't need to compose multiple scripts depending on which gender you choose. I won't lose sleep over this limitation, but I hope they update it and have rerecorded lines that dismiss gender so more people can feel immersed. The game still looks pretty cool imho
There's all sorts of vile and negative shit that happens in real life that isn't put into fictional media because it won't be enjoyable, or because its inclusion would itself perpetuate the real-life problem (in this case, transphobia).
Like, in TLoU2, you don't get gangrene after getting cut once and die after hours of being bed-ridden. "But it would be accurate to the setting!" doesn't mean it would make the game better—same goes for other stuff that isn't fun. Unless they're going all-in to make a well-considered statement through the game's story (and they aren't), it isn't worth it to include transphobia and set-dressing.
Then they should do it right, or not bother.
This game is guaranteed to be 10+ million seller and could easily have the legs of the Witcher series... Voice acting money isn't going to break them.
yeah and IF you were American I could use sweeping generalisations such as it being presided by a woman hating, racist, bigot and by proxy all Americans must be likewise.
Some people will continue to defend this game and the company behind it tooth and nail, no matter what, regardless of their past and current actions. This type of, eh, "design decision" is pandering exactly to the usual crowd. Merely imagining the number of "funny" streamers using this "feature" of the game as a weapon against trans people is horrifying.
Except that Poland is, by and large, a very LGBTI+ unfriendly country (to put it midly). I know you're concern trolling, but you're not even trying:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Except that Poland is, by and large, a very LGBTI+ unfriendly country (to put it midly). I know you're concern trolling, but you're not even trying:
LGBT rights in Poland - Wikipedia
LGBT-free zone - Wikipedia
I still don't understand why they don't just let you select your pronouns
Have no gender option in the character creator
Have no gender option in the character creator
It might also mean that making changes to the dialogue would take a 100 percent more effort. Which might be happening since apparently they're aware of criticism about the dialogue. They undoubtedly have the resources to do it but it would mean resources would be reallocated from other areas of polish.
Yep, Supermassive Games (also a small studio) did something simple for Pyre too as I recall, an NPC you'd just met asking if you had a preferred pronoun, He/She/They and then it being appropriate during further conversations.
Not that those games are equal in scope to Cyberpunk 2077, but neither are those studios as large. It does seem to show that it was important enough to Supermassive and Yacht Club to work around any potential "difficulties" and costs to make their games as inclusive as possible, and though I confess to not playing either, from what I know of them they are not games which have such ideas of gender and sexuality fluidity core to their genre as Cyperpunk does.
[edit] I didn't know the full details of what Yacht Club games did, aside from it being highly regarded and I just checked. Blimey thats the kind of options that should be becoming standard. Top drawer.
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1. It's impossible for every single line of dialogue to mention gender, so there's no way this this is true
2. This is their mistake for being called out on this very thing over a year ago and only doing a surface level fix which they misrepresented to the public
If they can delay their game to fix bugs, they can delay their game to not be bigots.
Will they care to? Hard to know.
But if they don't make the change, what they're saying is that trans folk and their concerns are not worth the cost and effort because they're comparatively insignificant compared to time spent on more graphical polish.
If I were an American and I had my own game company, and I kept doing things with my game that as you said were woman hating, racist, and bigoted, you can by all means refer to me as an American developer and think that perhaps the attitudes and behaviour of the ruling party is somewhat in line with mine.
I don't think you're gonna get many Americans here who would be offended at someone shit-talking America rn
User Banned (3 months): Transphobia
Or you can pretend to have the character you choose the parts for, regardless of voice. If you choose one option over the other, no video game or voice can tell you what your character is or is not. Just because an NPC calls you he or she, you know yourself what character you made. This is different from assuming gender for a real person irl. This is a videogame. I wouldn't stress about this. You an choose your parts.
Either they put forth the effort to do things correctly, or don't tackle a subject they're not capable of handling.
You're arguing for the latter, that they should release a potentially harmful take on trans individuals because they aren't willing to take the time, effort, or money to do it right and that's a pretty shit stance.
?
Decoupling gender from VA should not require re-recording dialogues, at all.
For example:
If the title features 3 preferred pronouns- He, She, They, then it means lines of dialogues that consists of pronouns were recorded thrice. The data is already there and attached to their corresponding genders. So now, it is a matter of letting the player simply select gender at the start of character creation instead of relegating to the selection of PC's tone of voice.