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Your tone of voice determines the pronouns assigned to you in Cyberpunk 2077
- Thread starter Glio
- Start date
I don't think this is new information.
That said they should have had a third step, after picking a voice, where you actually pick the pronoun.
The writer says that you can choose the voice independent of the body features, but then also says that you can't do that?
Unless from "feminine features" they weren't just talking about body features but also the vocal features, so being able to choose a feminine body and feminine voice but have masculine pronounce....which would be something you can't do.
That said they should have had a third step, after picking a voice, where you actually pick the pronoun.
I'm confused.Kotaku:
Cyberpunk 2077 Is Complex And Overwhelming, But It Works
Cyberpunk 2077 didn’t quite click with me until I met Certo.kotaku.com
The writer says that you can choose the voice independent of the body features, but then also says that you can't do that?
Unless from "feminine features" they weren't just talking about body features but also the vocal features, so being able to choose a feminine body and feminine voice but have masculine pronounce....which would be something you can't do.
What the hell.
Yikes. This is unbelievable. I can't believe people are defending CDPR. It's not just their social media.Or this that's still plastered across the city in the latest trailer.
This fetishized in-game ad from Cyberpunk 2077 raises some questions about how the game may depict LGBT (NSFW) [See Staff Post Before Posting]
Note the crotch of the person in the enlarged image. This is really yikes. It might not be so bad when divorced from context of the company's issues with transphobia, but even then it's disheartening to see. It reeks of fetishism. :/ Image in question:www.resetera.com
Why would they make it voice-dependent instead of, well, just letting people choose the pronoun? I thought this is what they said earlier.
I know that's just a hypothetical but jesus that oversight from the writers if that actually was why. Would just make them look worse
If you have a masculine body and a high voice, you are considered a woman.
If you have a feminine body and a high voice, you are considered a woman.
The body does not define anything, everything depends on the voice.
You cannot have a masculine body, a deep voice and be considered a woman.
It means it's impossible to have a female body, with a male sounding voice AND a 'she' pronoun. With this system; if you want a female body and a male sounding voice you can only be referred to as 'he'. The voice is the deciding factor on pronouns.
Disappointing but unsurprising. Fantastical body modification as a futuristic aesthetic pretty much always disregards the legitimacy of transgender people by trying to define gendered body symbols as not gendered.
I wonder if this might be a voice acting thing where dialogue might change significantly between a male and female protagonist (e.g. the way some people in the world talk to you and treat you). In that case reducing the gender pronouns might be an unfortunate result of budgetary constraints.
Tonally the game seems to be about as mature as a 13 year old on the playground. Any sort of option for choice has sounded more like a sideshow for man children and teenagers to giggle at so they can give their character massive dicks and "weird" labia. I have never felt like it was inclusive—just things for Cis White dudes to gawk at for a while.
I guess there's two matters to cover; one is the player's ability (or lack thereof) to choose pronouns rather than have the game lock you into a set based on your voice choice, and the other is whether or not there's a they/them pronoun set in addition to he/him, she/her.
The former seems like it should be an incredibly easy fix. The latter on the other hand would be, as you say, a budgetary matter. Each additional set of pronouns would mean they'd need to go back and write a new, third variant of every dialogue line with player pronouns, then record said new lines.
So I guess this was a lie. (Or they just changed their mind later, if one wants a more charitable read of the situation.)
www.gameinformer.com
I don't understand how CDPR fucked this up so badly.
Cyberpunk 2077's Character Creator Will Include Nonbinary Gender Options
CD Projekt Red has confirmed there will be more options in the character creator than we've seen so far.
www.gameinformer.com
I don't understand how CDPR fucked this up so badly.
Cause the studio is mostly conservative white polish dudes, and it's ignorant at best, and actively reactionary at worst?
That is why sensitivity readers is something that should be extended more in these big projects when they want to deal with racial issues or gender issues. When you work in an echo chamber it is easy not to realize how incredibly offensive you are being because everyone is like you and you don't see any problem.
Avoiding this would have been as simple as consulting five trans people and asking them "Is this okay for you?".
"Its double the workload, double the voice work....."
Sorry had to make a bad joke/reference to a certain AC game on why an online mode didnt include women in it. But in reality, it's not hard and hopefully it's either a really early build/ they add it in soon to fix this.
People need to stop using budget and script as an excuse for this. Diversity and representation do not cost money. A developer who actually cared about gender diversity would have considered implementing it back when the script was being written. CDPR did not and when they were called out for it they went with a quick fix.
I don't buy that they don't have the budget to go back and do it right either - they're one of the biggest success stories of this gen. The cost of fixing this is nothing compared to how much bank this game is going to make.
I don't buy that they don't have the budget to go back and do it right either - they're one of the biggest success stories of this gen. The cost of fixing this is nothing compared to how much bank this game is going to make.
They probably didn't record the protagonist voice actors using different pronouns. So for all the dialogue that references gender (like "I'm the kind of girl who *blank* ") they just have one take for both voices.
Would be easy to swap how NPC's refer to V based on a selection in the character creator, but for the player's dialogue they'd have to go back and record another take for a ton of lines.
Not a defense for it, just trying to think why they would go this route. Ideally they would have accounted for this during the VO sessions.
Would be easy to swap how NPC's refer to V based on a selection in the character creator, but for the player's dialogue they'd have to go back and record another take for a ton of lines.
Not a defense for it, just trying to think why they would go this route. Ideally they would have accounted for this during the VO sessions.
Ugh, good greif, its like one step forward several hundred back.
Surely a moments reflection would flag this up as being a terrible method versus a simple menu option. If they have trouble on what should be a relatively simple aspect, who knows what other issues there may be.
Surely a moments reflection would flag this up as being a terrible method versus a simple menu option. If they have trouble on what should be a relatively simple aspect, who knows what other issues there may be.
God how can you be that stupid and tone-deaf
Let the player chose how they want their character to look, let them chose whatever voice they want and then whatever pronoun they want.
It's not rocket science
Let the player chose how they want their character to look, let them chose whatever voice they want and then whatever pronoun they want.
It's not rocket science
Kotaku confirms it.
Kotaku:
Cyberpunk 2077 Is Complex And Overwhelming, But It Works
Cyberpunk 2077 didn’t quite click with me until I met Certo.
Unfortunately for the press this is probably a minor problem, as for CD Project.
Yeah, especially when you've done interviews and hyped up how non gender confirming you can be a how you can make someone that reflects people from all walks of life in that regard
It's been said on the first page but this really foes seem like a voice recording issue.
They didn't have the male VA read lines multiple times and call themselves a woman and vice versa. That would be twice as much work and time and money(?). Does seem like an oversight after they've finished.
They didn't have the male VA read lines multiple times and call themselves a woman and vice versa. That would be twice as much work and time and money(?). Does seem like an oversight after they've finished.
I was only thinking about NPC dialogue and didn't think about the player's own dialogue. I guess it wouldn't surprise me if the VO recordings for V were just recorded with one gender in mind. I wonder how much dialogue in the game has V referring to their own gender? I can't imagine them re-recording anything now.
Ok but without the voice acting seeminhg like they cut in a "he" or a "she" and without them re-recording all the lines and programming all that, I really don't see what's the most effective way they could do all this without breaking player immersion.
It's like speaking in French and then saying an English proper name in the middle of the sentence. Accent switches and sounds jarring.
Has any game effectively tackled this?
It's like speaking in French and then saying an English proper name in the middle of the sentence. Accent switches and sounds jarring.
Has any game effectively tackled this?
This is a really weird situation, this kind of backlash against cyberpunk.. same with people speaking down about The Witcher 3~ it's a really surprising phenomenon... Guys, hold your tongue on the game until you've actually played it, no?
Edit: a bunch of people are getting triggered by this, i think it's because i didn't directly address the trans gender core of the OP's message. Sorry about that. I support trans rights and i will be disgusted by any foolish crap cdpr perpetrates. My post here was talking about the general trend of bashing cyberpunk I've seen, and it was my mistake to rush my post and overlook the core topic.
Edit: a bunch of people are getting triggered by this, i think it's because i didn't directly address the trans gender core of the OP's message. Sorry about that. I support trans rights and i will be disgusted by any foolish crap cdpr perpetrates. My post here was talking about the general trend of bashing cyberpunk I've seen, and it was my mistake to rush my post and overlook the core topic.
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Simply use gender neutral terms?
"You will feel ashamed of your words & deeds"
User Banned (1 month): Advocating for portrayals of transphobic abuse in-game
Ok but if the people are supposed to be thugs in the game, if they stay in character, I can't see them all respecting gender neutrality. They are supposed to be the bottom of society, not politically correct.
This is exactly it.
For anyone saying it's an issue of budget or resources--it's not; it's an issue of priorities. When being inclusive is one of your core design pillars you aren't painting yourself into corners where you need to break inclusivity to proceed. Instead, you are coming up with solutions to these problems from the beginning and as they arise.
Oh the old "it's not the devs who are bigots, it's the characters" shtick.
You can display "thuggishness" without resorting to transphobia.
Oh yes wait until after you've already spent your hard earned cash to complain I'm sure they'll be listening most intentively as they take that cash to the bank.
I know I might sound sarcastic but I'm tired of that narrative also it's not the companies first trans/gender issue they've had
This probably wont be a simple fix if they only used binary pronouns in the actual voiced dialogue.
They fucked this up bad if this is true.
This. They were lying from the start if the dialogue was always going to be pigeonholed.
Trans people are marginalized people, ie. "the bottom of society". Same for the rest of the groups demanding these basic rights and respect. "Political correctness" comes from the bottom, and it's demanded of those in power.
There's only so many times one can give them the benefit of the doubt. The nicest thing one can say by now on the matter is that they need to take a pause and educate themselves on the matter.
No I mean like the bad guys in this game are supposed to be inherent assholes and i feel if they stay in character, they would purposely not respect one's gender pronoun. I'm not saying it's right.
In South Park: The Fractured But Whole the bigots misgender you at the beginning of the game, then everyone else, I think I remember, do it well.