Should have just been called "Dawn of Justice" and had more Wonder Woman imo.
Having said that, I really enjoy watching the UE.
I can't wait for the updated version to release on Blu-ray.
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Your thoughts on Batman V Superman Dawn of Justice? (Spoilers)
- Thread starter Star-Lord
- Start date
Having said that, I really enjoy watching the UE.
I can't wait for the updated version to release on Blu-ray.
Beautifully shot
Great music
Bad lex
Great Batman performance
Overly long and clunky , things don't make too much sense
Should have been rewritten
Great music
Bad lex
Great Batman performance
Overly long and clunky , things don't make too much sense
Should have been rewritten
Currently watching it now.
+All the ideas presented in the first two acts are great (Unhinged Bats, Supes Savior Complex etc.)
+This film is very visually pleasing to watch, maybe just a tad to dark but it fits the solemn theme of the film.
+Soundtrack is great.
+/- Warehouse Scene is still *chef's kiss*, despite Batman downright killing a couple of dudes 😅
+/- Knightmare is great, but its ruined by weird JL set up.
+/-Love the idea of Lex Jr. pitting both Bats and Supes to fight each other but his plan just feels too convoluted. And I think that's the films biggest problem, there's just TOO MUCH going on.
-Honestly Jesse would have been a fine Joker.
-Could have used a bit more Clark in this one and less of Louis.
-The fight between Supes and Bats should have been longer. Or at least a longer first round. +Looks great in IMAX Ratio.
-3rd Act with Doomsday and WW is just bad and a CGI fest.
Its still a solid film but it was held back by the rush to get to Justice League asap + some weak screenwriting. The one thing I can give it praise for is that it is unique and it does make it somewhat memorable (for better or worse). 5 years later and we're still debating about it.
Bonus point for this scene:
This gif alone just lets you know how fucking awful the movie is. I'm positive it's the dumbest shit superman has ever said in film.
I would rather give BvS another go than sit through Dark Turd. What an incredibly bland film.
exactly. There is a way this movie could work, they needed at least a film before this. I'd even be fine without the WW movie before this, and just an old batfleck film. The opening sequence in BvS (him running around trying to save his company's workers) is the one that tips him finally over the edge after previously being wary of the threat yet numb to be able to fight against it.
My idea for a solo Batman movie was mostly to establish 'this' version of the character in this universe, taking into account that we were hot off the Dark Knight Trilogy featuring a very different take. But the stuff you're saying about having Batman being the one keeping tabs on the metas would be a good way to showcase his detective skills, while introducing the supporting JL characters in a more organic way than the cheesy on the nose manner you described above. You could play around a bit in terms of which films you introduce the full cast ( like Hawkeye showing up in Thor or Widow in Iron-man 2), but the net result is having a fully realized universe where everyone gets some level of shine ( the big 3 getting the most, naturally) building to the big event team-up. They wanted desperately to compete with Marvel, but took nothing from the way the MCU was set-up that paid off so well when the Avengers finally landed on the big screen.
Man of Steel is one of my favourite superhero movies ever and really underrated imo.
Batman V Superman was pure garbage I can't think of many times I've walked out of a cinema in such a bad mood.
Batman V Superman was pure garbage I can't think of many times I've walked out of a cinema in such a bad mood.
That's a big issue with the script. Superman should have been more directly contrasted with Batman in terms of demeanor and actions. Even though he's not intentionally brutish like Batman is here, he's also very far from being positioned to take the moral high ground on how vigilantes should operate. The movie wants to tell a story about these two as ideologic opposites that really doesn't play out on-screen.
Incredibly boring, I didn't even watch it to the end. If you want to see this story done better watch the Superman the Animated Series 3 parter: World's Finest.
Controversial character decisions aside, Man of Steel was a solid "movie" and had fantastic action scenes. Even the controversial character elements have some merit since people are still debating and discussing them almost a decade later.
Batman V Superman on the other hand is such a shitty, downright boring movie. None of its themes are handled well, the action scenes are few and far between, it drags on forever and Lex Zuckerberg sucks. Even the penultimate fight between the titular characters is over in a split second and never reaches anything as crazy as the Smallville fight in MoS.
That's without even getting into the bizzare shit that is the MARTHA! plot twist (is it a plot twist???). This, and Silent Hill Revelation are the only movies I've seen in theatres where I turned to the friend next to me and said we can walk out if you want.
Batman V Superman on the other hand is such a shitty, downright boring movie. None of its themes are handled well, the action scenes are few and far between, it drags on forever and Lex Zuckerberg sucks. Even the penultimate fight between the titular characters is over in a split second and never reaches anything as crazy as the Smallville fight in MoS.
That's without even getting into the bizzare shit that is the MARTHA! plot twist (is it a plot twist???). This, and Silent Hill Revelation are the only movies I've seen in theatres where I turned to the friend next to me and said we can walk out if you want.
If the writers likely patting each other on the back for figuring out that Batman and Superman's mom had the same name, a detail that surely no one in the history of ever had noticed, is a plot twist, then sure. It's a plot twist.
I actually like the Batman stuff outside of when he's, you know, branding people with his symbol and whatnot. The Superman and Luthor stuff is miserable, though. I thought the core conflict was actually more reasonable that Civil War, but that Civil War was a much better film. Like Batman's reason for disliking Superman feels reasonable but Superman is so utterly mishandled that it never really works. As opposed to Civil War where I think the core conflict doesn't really work but the movie is really fun if you ignore it.
piece of crap and the ultimate edition is an even longer piece of crap
the 4 hour snyder cut of JL is apparently pretty good so I guess his style works with more miniseries-esque endeavors
the 4 hour snyder cut of JL is apparently pretty good so I guess his style works with more miniseries-esque endeavors
Just watched the Ultimate Edition. It's kind of wild how this version of the movie has like... a structure? I remember feeling like the first half of the theatrical cut was a random assortment of barely connected scenes you could rearrange without any affect on the story lol.
I still think it's a mess, its foundation poorly laid in a bad first movie and only ever seeming to half-understand Superman in particular, but I honestly completely enjoyed watching it, at least up until Doomsday shows up and things get dreadfully boring. It could have been way better than it is, but it's still stupid, pulpy fun.
I still think it's a mess, its foundation poorly laid in a bad first movie and only ever seeming to half-understand Superman in particular, but I honestly completely enjoyed watching it, at least up until Doomsday shows up and things get dreadfully boring. It could have been way better than it is, but it's still stupid, pulpy fun.
I saw it in theaters and the theaters power cut out as child Bruce was being lifted by bats. I should have taken that as a sign and left.
that's my Opinion of it
that's my Opinion of it
I rewatched the Ultimate Cut last night and really enjoyed it. I didn't vote 'love it' because it does have some flaws, but I definitely like it.
Visually, it's really gorgeous in places, the music is amazing throughout and the first two acts are really solid. I think where it all falls apart a little is where they actually fight - and the battle that then ensues with Doomsday... it goes from really pretty and thoughtfully shot, to visually messy, subpar LOTR cave-troll stuff pretty quickly. Having said that, even for that battle, the crescendo moment where Supes takes up the spear and sacrifices himself is really really good.
I really like the use of the artwork hanging in Lex's office, the decay and overgrowth around Wayne manor, the batcave, the big containment centre built around Zod's ship... watching it again, I was kind of impressed by the scale of some of the sets, the compositing and artistry of some of it. People sometimes forget the planning and artistry that has to go in to making something like this, and maybe dismissively denigrate the work as a whole, but there are lots of nicely done things in this film.
It's got me quite excited for watching the Snyder Cut later tonight. The Knightmare sequence in particular got me excited - Batman being entrapped by the Injustice-style Superman-branded regime troops. Fucking brilliant. Seeing him fight while his allies are yanked in to the skies by parademons - it really makes me wonder how interesting and insane the DCEU could have gotten if WB had just stayed the course.
I actually really like Lois investigating the connections to Lex in this cut too. It seems a little bit clearer in the longer cut who works for who, who is aware of things and who isn't. That moment when Lois realises the guy in the wheelchair didn't know he was going to die at the capitol, that the chair was lined with lead - seemed much more effective to me in this cut. Just on account of her being a little bit more visible in the opening scenes, I was a bit more shocked at how ruthlessly Lex took out his own assistant Mercy too. A terrorism attack at the capitol also seemed a little bit more shocking, plausible and real given recent events. It kind of all comes to a head just as Lex's henchmen are cleaning up all traces that might link him to the crime(s) - including killing that poor girl in the subway. All of the stuff with the Russian guy (Anatoli Knyazev, played by Callan Mulvey) just loitering around, snatching people up or killing them kind of reminded me of the way gangster films are sometimes shot - just before someone gets 'whacked'. I think a bit more of that might have really helped emphasise what an insidious corporate gangster Lex is behind that weird angsty southern drawl and charm.
It's generally a little bit clearer what Lex is trying to do - it's easier to draw lines between the killings in the desert (designed to frame superman), the killing in the prison (designed to convince Kal-el Batman might need to be stopped), the returned cheques from the Wayne employee, the serendipitous invites to the library fundraiser, etc. I feel like it built up a little better to the payoff where Lex is flinging polaroids of Superman's mother at him, and proclaims something along the lines of "and now God bends to my will!". At the end of the day, this is a Lex that is frightened of the new status-quo, and the danger it represents to his criminal enterprise, to his obsession with power and control and his unwillingness to cede any of it, or to lose. By the end of the film he's been driven mad by it. I don't think any of that was a bad idea at all, it probably just needed more time to breathe. I think the film would have benefitted from more time exploring motivations like that, rather than having a big CGI battle and trying to shoe-horn Wonder Woman in there and set up JL - but it is what it is - and I enjoyed the film all the same.
I know this incarnation of Lex is hated by a lot of the fans, but I kind of liked the new take. Lex seems to have changed a lot in the comics over time... so I didn't find anything egregiously offensive about him. In fact, I think I kind of get what they were going for. Industrialists of their day were older men, but today, in this world of venture capital, CEOs can be much younger: Lex in this film is more like a Zuckerberg, Dorsey or Musk - it's no coincidence they picked the Social Network guy for the role. The hints towards an abusive upbringing are a suitable foil for a villain who stands opposite a God-like being who had near perfect, loving parents - and they've done that before in the comics, so that's not entirely new either. And however you feel about him, he does have some of the best dialogue in the film. I really like the paraphrasing of Epicurus' trilemma: if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. If God is all good, he cannot be all powerful. Yknow, it obviously doesn't go any deeper than it has to, I'm not trying to claim it's doing anything superbly clever - but outside of maybe WandaVision and one or two of the better MCU movies, I can't think of another comic flick that actually attempts to pose some philosophical questions about what we are and how we would react to the spectacular phenomenon of super-beings, the physical and emotional collateral damage that they can do.
Superman - again, I know some people thought he was done dirty in MoS and BvS - but I liked him in these films. People say these films are dark and dour, polarisingly opposite to how they see Superman - but in these films I see a world that is like our own, dark and cynical, and a Superman who is rooted in defiant hope and in those ideals we know and love. I think it would have been really great to see this Superman - resurrected and leading his team in feats of heroism that give added meaning to that S on his chest. Winning over that cynical world. People suggest that Snyder must hate Superman or something, but I've no doubt they were leading to something. "They will join you in the sun".
The characters in this film are telling him "your parents probably told you you were special, you're not" - "you could stand for something if this were 1938, but this isn't 1938, WPA aren't hiring no more, apples don't cost a nickel" - they are questioning him and his motives constantly. The characters wring their hands over the ideas that making choices means not making others: when Perry runs a headline, he's choosing what matters and what doesn't. When Superman saves some people at the expense of others, he's choosing who lives and who dies. "In this world, every act is a political act". It haunts him. When he has a vision of speaking with his father and his father tells him about saving the farm but accidentally killing the neighbours horses - they have a shared experience in that even the God-man from Krypton can't save everybody - does that mean he shouldn't try? Ultimately, when he chooses not to kill Batman, when he protects Lex from the beast Lex-himself created, - when he chooses to go to his 'death' to save everybody else, he's made the same self-sacrificial choice Jonathan Kent made in the admittedly clumsy Hurricane scene from MoS. Ultimately, he IS special. He DOES have the power to save everyone. He knows he was right to save the kids on that bus in MoS - any every other person he saved - because that's how he was brought up and that that's just who he is. And he does it because he loves Lois too. I don't have a problem with any of that. I liked it.
Looking forward to watching JL later.
So yeah. I voted 'liked it'. I feel like it really stood up on a re-watch.
Visually, it's really gorgeous in places, the music is amazing throughout and the first two acts are really solid. I think where it all falls apart a little is where they actually fight - and the battle that then ensues with Doomsday... it goes from really pretty and thoughtfully shot, to visually messy, subpar LOTR cave-troll stuff pretty quickly. Having said that, even for that battle, the crescendo moment where Supes takes up the spear and sacrifices himself is really really good.
I really like the use of the artwork hanging in Lex's office, the decay and overgrowth around Wayne manor, the batcave, the big containment centre built around Zod's ship... watching it again, I was kind of impressed by the scale of some of the sets, the compositing and artistry of some of it. People sometimes forget the planning and artistry that has to go in to making something like this, and maybe dismissively denigrate the work as a whole, but there are lots of nicely done things in this film.
It's got me quite excited for watching the Snyder Cut later tonight. The Knightmare sequence in particular got me excited - Batman being entrapped by the Injustice-style Superman-branded regime troops. Fucking brilliant. Seeing him fight while his allies are yanked in to the skies by parademons - it really makes me wonder how interesting and insane the DCEU could have gotten if WB had just stayed the course.
I actually really like Lois investigating the connections to Lex in this cut too. It seems a little bit clearer in the longer cut who works for who, who is aware of things and who isn't. That moment when Lois realises the guy in the wheelchair didn't know he was going to die at the capitol, that the chair was lined with lead - seemed much more effective to me in this cut. Just on account of her being a little bit more visible in the opening scenes, I was a bit more shocked at how ruthlessly Lex took out his own assistant Mercy too. A terrorism attack at the capitol also seemed a little bit more shocking, plausible and real given recent events. It kind of all comes to a head just as Lex's henchmen are cleaning up all traces that might link him to the crime(s) - including killing that poor girl in the subway. All of the stuff with the Russian guy (Anatoli Knyazev, played by Callan Mulvey) just loitering around, snatching people up or killing them kind of reminded me of the way gangster films are sometimes shot - just before someone gets 'whacked'. I think a bit more of that might have really helped emphasise what an insidious corporate gangster Lex is behind that weird angsty southern drawl and charm.
It's generally a little bit clearer what Lex is trying to do - it's easier to draw lines between the killings in the desert (designed to frame superman), the killing in the prison (designed to convince Kal-el Batman might need to be stopped), the returned cheques from the Wayne employee, the serendipitous invites to the library fundraiser, etc. I feel like it built up a little better to the payoff where Lex is flinging polaroids of Superman's mother at him, and proclaims something along the lines of "and now God bends to my will!". At the end of the day, this is a Lex that is frightened of the new status-quo, and the danger it represents to his criminal enterprise, to his obsession with power and control and his unwillingness to cede any of it, or to lose. By the end of the film he's been driven mad by it. I don't think any of that was a bad idea at all, it probably just needed more time to breathe. I think the film would have benefitted from more time exploring motivations like that, rather than having a big CGI battle and trying to shoe-horn Wonder Woman in there and set up JL - but it is what it is - and I enjoyed the film all the same.
I know this incarnation of Lex is hated by a lot of the fans, but I kind of liked the new take. Lex seems to have changed a lot in the comics over time... so I didn't find anything egregiously offensive about him. In fact, I think I kind of get what they were going for. Industrialists of their day were older men, but today, in this world of venture capital, CEOs can be much younger: Lex in this film is more like a Zuckerberg, Dorsey or Musk - it's no coincidence they picked the Social Network guy for the role. The hints towards an abusive upbringing are a suitable foil for a villain who stands opposite a God-like being who had near perfect, loving parents - and they've done that before in the comics, so that's not entirely new either. And however you feel about him, he does have some of the best dialogue in the film. I really like the paraphrasing of Epicurus' trilemma: if God is all powerful, he cannot be all good. If God is all good, he cannot be all powerful. Yknow, it obviously doesn't go any deeper than it has to, I'm not trying to claim it's doing anything superbly clever - but outside of maybe WandaVision and one or two of the better MCU movies, I can't think of another comic flick that actually attempts to pose some philosophical questions about what we are and how we would react to the spectacular phenomenon of super-beings, the physical and emotional collateral damage that they can do.
Superman - again, I know some people thought he was done dirty in MoS and BvS - but I liked him in these films. People say these films are dark and dour, polarisingly opposite to how they see Superman - but in these films I see a world that is like our own, dark and cynical, and a Superman who is rooted in defiant hope and in those ideals we know and love. I think it would have been really great to see this Superman - resurrected and leading his team in feats of heroism that give added meaning to that S on his chest. Winning over that cynical world. People suggest that Snyder must hate Superman or something, but I've no doubt they were leading to something. "They will join you in the sun".
The characters in this film are telling him "your parents probably told you you were special, you're not" - "you could stand for something if this were 1938, but this isn't 1938, WPA aren't hiring no more, apples don't cost a nickel" - they are questioning him and his motives constantly. The characters wring their hands over the ideas that making choices means not making others: when Perry runs a headline, he's choosing what matters and what doesn't. When Superman saves some people at the expense of others, he's choosing who lives and who dies. "In this world, every act is a political act". It haunts him. When he has a vision of speaking with his father and his father tells him about saving the farm but accidentally killing the neighbours horses - they have a shared experience in that even the God-man from Krypton can't save everybody - does that mean he shouldn't try? Ultimately, when he chooses not to kill Batman, when he protects Lex from the beast Lex-himself created, - when he chooses to go to his 'death' to save everybody else, he's made the same self-sacrificial choice Jonathan Kent made in the admittedly clumsy Hurricane scene from MoS. Ultimately, he IS special. He DOES have the power to save everyone. He knows he was right to save the kids on that bus in MoS - any every other person he saved - because that's how he was brought up and that that's just who he is. And he does it because he loves Lois too. I don't have a problem with any of that. I liked it.
Looking forward to watching JL later.
So yeah. I voted 'liked it'. I feel like it really stood up on a re-watch.
Hated the theatrical cut and merely disliked the Ultimate Cut. Yeah, I guess that just about covers it.
Some of the action and visuals are very, very good - but the pacing and the real bad parts (Lex, Doomsday, "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?", etc.) drag the movie down to a level that just can't be redeemed, in my mind's eye.
And my middle son's name is Kalel, so imagine my nerd level.
Some of the action and visuals are very, very good - but the pacing and the real bad parts (Lex, Doomsday, "WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?", etc.) drag the movie down to a level that just can't be redeemed, in my mind's eye.
And my middle son's name is Kalel, so imagine my nerd level.
I'm frequently a Snyder apologist. I *loved* MoS. However, I hated BvS. The main reason is that I feel cheated whenever I watch it. For anyone that enjoyed MoS, one of the joys of the movie is watching Clark's journey. By the very end, just before credits, when he's hovering over the general and tells the Military to leave him alone, it feels like he'd finally become the Superman that we know. He was actually smiling, and it was earned. I was excited for MoS2 because this foundation was good.
BvS, from the very start, the color palette changed. Superman was already darker. The optimism at the end of the first movie was already gone. We never got the Superman movies between. DC/Snyder jumped way ahead.
The idea of the DCEU always excited me because I always wondered what would happen if the Nolan Batman, as presented, met the MoS Supes. Instead, Snyder cheated by jumping to his interpretation of the Dark Knight Batman and Superman, which you simply cannot do without building to it.
None of this was earned, and that ruined it for me.
BvS, from the very start, the color palette changed. Superman was already darker. The optimism at the end of the first movie was already gone. We never got the Superman movies between. DC/Snyder jumped way ahead.
The idea of the DCEU always excited me because I always wondered what would happen if the Nolan Batman, as presented, met the MoS Supes. Instead, Snyder cheated by jumping to his interpretation of the Dark Knight Batman and Superman, which you simply cannot do without building to it.
None of this was earned, and that ruined it for me.