-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Your current ideas for Final Fantasy VII Remake PART II
- Thread starter Neiteio
- Start date
OP
OP
The thing is, if the only satisfying narrative payoff for "hope" is "hope fulfilled," then it wasn't hope in the first place, was it?
If they go that route, I don't think that is 'manipulative'. I don't really know what will happen and am open to any option but if this process basically would allow them to recreate the feelings of the OG. Maybe it won't hit for you but based on some of the other comments I've read, I think it could end up hitting just as hard as the original
OP
OP
Exactly. The "defy fate" aspect of Part 1 is brilliant since it has filled us all with a sense of wonder. Things could play out the same, or differently, or arrive at the same place but in a different way -- we just don't know. Yet the undeniable result of all this is that is we feel like we're in uncharted territory again -- we're genuinely curious to see what happens next. Which to me makes waiting for the next part so much more exciting.
I kind of agree, that's why I suggested it shouldn't be that simple, and there could be complex feelings. What does Aerith feel if the planet no longer expects the same future for her? How much power does the villian have now they don't care so much if Aerith lives? Even in the first game in the new series, Aerith warns Cloud not to fall in love with her and tells him to cherish life, like she's anticipating her death, I rather see her challenged and thrown out of that confort zone, you could say.
If they end up still killing her, I'd be both relieved (it's the outcome I prefer precisely because it hurts) and pissed off, as the convoluted and awfully written and executed Fate stuff would have been for nothing.
If they wanted to instill hope, there are better ways that don't involve meandering cutscenes with muh destiny magic that kill the otherwise great presentation and pacing and bog down the themes of the Midgar portion: you know, capitalism, climate change and the promise of bigger threats and a bigger world. All while maintaining a big, but not unrestraint, scope and a reduced, instead of KH-like end of times shenanigans where you already the supposedly invincible villain (regardless of the fact that he's toying with you) and what are essentially gods.
Dirge of Cerberus!
If they wanted to instill hope, there are better ways that don't involve meandering cutscenes with muh destiny magic that kill the otherwise great presentation and pacing and bog down the themes of the Midgar portion: you know, capitalism, climate change and the promise of bigger threats and a bigger world. All while maintaining a big, but not unrestraint, scope and a reduced, instead of KH-like end of times shenanigans where you already the supposedly invincible villain (regardless of the fact that he's toying with you) and what are essentially gods.
The only way I don't see him coming back is due to copyright stuff or Gackt not wanting to return tbh. They're really doing their damnedest to bring back even Dirge of Cerberus stuff, after all.
Dirge of Cerberus!
OP
OP
Yeah, I do think they're going to do some neat things with this. Even if Aerith ends up dying, Cloud will likely try to find ways to save her since the party will have more insight. And this will create new drama, new character bonding moments, new twists and turns along the way. Maybe they will succeed, find a way for her to live and still save the planet. Maybe she will still die and the takeaway will be accepting death is a part of life that we struggle against but cannot stop, yet there is still beauty in the idea of an end. I don't know what kind of story they wish to tell, but this whole setup has me excited thinking of all the possibilities.
It would still be plausible that the conclusion is: you can't change the course of events, regardless of what you do. I think they might lead us to believe that things are different, but those who died in the OG will still die in this Remake.
Yeah, my line of thinking goes around those lines. Like, I think they're giving people false hope and that, while things will happen differently, the outcome is going to be largely the same. Maybe showing Zack's timeline as being doomed to prove that OG FF VII events need to happen.
Like, it's a potentially interesting concept and there are cool things to toy around with. But man, were there really not better ideas to pull this off than the Fates?
In any case, observing Aerith's behaviour will be interesting. Potentially Bugenhagen and that side of the world.
In part 1, even before Fate was defeated, they changed the story so Shinra arranged bombings, to create a excuse for a new war with Wutai.
After defeating Fate, I thought they would take it even futher and change the overarching story, I find it anticlimactic they're saying it's the same.
Yea this is all really good although I still think changes could have been made through a less crappy plot device as force ghost dementors. To me, that last chapter is just really bad by itself regardless of how the story goes forward. I'm more worried that this is the garbage quality of writing we will get for all the original material going forward. If that is really the case, I'd honestly rather they backtrack and just do exactly the same as the OG (I know they won't but still) because at least that's a guaranteed decent story/writing
We don't know what is the same. The same people could die and a lot of main beats can play out the same (Cloud having a mental break over his identity, Sephiroth summoning Meteor, etc..) with a completely different story. Zack being an active player going forward automatically means it isn't the same thing
Fairly certain with Intergrade being what it is, this is almost assured.
I honestly don't believe them that it will be the same, I think they must have a different definition of the plot being largely similar. Because the way the first game ends leaves no room for doubt in my eyes that there will be massive differences, unless they consider bringing Zack back the extent of how far they are willing to go with that stuff.
Thematically, the ending of that game is pretty explicit in saying that they aren't beholden to the events of the original game, whatever they might have said in the Ultimania. So just going off the source 'text' (the game itself) that is what I expect and I see the intermission DLC as a hint of how different things might be.
What I think they could be just saying is that events like black materia and a big meteor will still feature heavily, as will weapons defending the planet etc. But for all we know that stuff could happen at a way earlier point in the overarching story, or a lot of stuff gets mixed up. I really think they are talking about it in terms like that because FFVII Remake makes it pretty clear to me that it won't be the same. Like for instance I expect very early on in the second game that we will go to Wutai, rather than it being a mid game thing. I think on a moment to moment basis the new games won't really resemble the original game much from here, besides just having certain moments taken from it
Sorry to keep bringing tired arguments up for those looking for people's ideas for Part 2, went along with the conversation above 😅
As for what I want for Part 2:
The rest? Sure, maybe a bit too anime at times in terms of the performance/gestures (which strikes as a bit weird considering how realistic characters mostly look), but I legitimately think the presentation and cutscene direction is fantastic and so are the interactions and overall acting, as well as the more mundane expansion of the story (like Jessie's mission). It's with the big stuff where they, regardless of me not liking the themes, messed up imo.
As for what I want for Part 2:
- Maybe better aerial combat. Not to the point where Cloud or Tifa are as useful as Aerith and Barret, but better camera and all of that.
- Big-ish zones connecting landmarks. Go crazy with the skyboxes and out-of-bounds imagery to make the world feel as big as it should be. Like, maybe even through unreachable villages from a distance here and there to sell the world better.
- Smaller towns (Kalm, Lower Junon, Costa del Sol...) of a respectable enough size, similar to the ones in Part 1. The bigger ones (namely Upper Junon) I'd like to see more fleshed out.
- Better sidequests. With this I don't mean them reinventing the wheel (it'd be nice, though!), but using fully using them to give us interesting insight on the world, lore and characters. Like maybe more involved, longer storylines there.
- CID.
- Let us keep the alternative costumes we get (sailor, soldier... outfits, and more, if they feel like it).
- Have Barret ditch his eyewear! He looks damn cool with them, but so much better with his eyes visible.
- Let Yuffie stalk the party after getting out of Midgar and becoming a member her around Fort Condor, even if that location will likely be highly reduced/changed in Part 2. Maybe wait a little bit more to get people in tune with Nanaki's combat (but, obviously, before the Junon voyage).
- I guess the game might start in media res, but making it clear to newcomers that it is a flashback as told by Cloud. That's important.
Yeah. Like I'd be more welcoming if the way they introduced these big changes wasn't so shoddy and if we had a good (or at least not as awful) precedent with the Compilation's writing and expansion of ideas.
The rest? Sure, maybe a bit too anime at times in terms of the performance/gestures (which strikes as a bit weird considering how realistic characters mostly look), but I legitimately think the presentation and cutscene direction is fantastic and so are the interactions and overall acting, as well as the more mundane expansion of the story (like Jessie's mission). It's with the big stuff where they, regardless of me not liking the themes, messed up imo.
OP
OP
The Wutai stuff is great. I imagine that in Junon, the military parade will now be both Rufus' inauguration and a rally where he declares war on Wutai (also a great way to reintroduce the Shinra execs and recap the war conspiracy from Part 1), and the purpose of the cargo ship will be moving troops and armor overseas where they will probably set up checkpoints, blockades and garrisons on the main roads (contextualizing the OG route across mountains and deserts), and mobilizing forces near Rocket Town closest to Wutai. I also foresee Wutai being part of the critical path now -- probably where the keystone will be relocated, necessitating a visit there.
One thing I know is the game will start in the nibelheim sequence.
It is literally too perfect of a start.
It is literally too perfect of a start.
We're definitely going to see Heidegger punching sailors into the ocean.
I agree. It's the perfect cold open, fade into a truck bouncing along a dirt road with Cloud standing up inside and pointing his sword around when you hear, "Hey, settle down..." from behind him.
Wutai will def be a bigger part of the story this time around and not just a pit stop buddy-cop comedy with the Turks and trying to find Yuffie and fighting Corneo. It will probably be a major part story element and I wouldn't be surprised if the climax of a game takes place there
I still hope they at least reach Nibelheim in the next part. It just bookends so well assuming the opening is the Kalm flashback and the return to Nibelheim was light on story in the OG so there is a lot to add there for a climax
I still hope they at least reach Nibelheim in the next part. It just bookends so well assuming the opening is the Kalm flashback and the return to Nibelheim was light on story in the OG so there is a lot to add there for a climax
Nibelheim to that big thing. I think huge open fields between towns kind of like that one area late in FFXIII. I want instant character switching like in FFX. Also combo moves with characters.
OP
OP
One cool thing they could do with a Nibelheim flashback opening is make the weather grey and rainy at the start when Seph and Cloud arrive in town -- the same weather as the end of Part 1, for a sort of transition. Then you play as Sephiroth during a gathering storm, effortlessly striking down dragons, the game also re-teaching you the basics (ATB, etc).
Has it been confirmed how many parts FF7R will end up being?
My biggest hope is that they keep Aerith around and do something different with the conclusion. I loved how FF7 played out. FF7R has taken a different direction, and I'm super excited to see where it goes. If they do end up killing off any of the "main cast", there needs to be substantial justification to do so...So if they choose that, I want to be invested and angry about it in a way that I want to see things through.
My biggest hope is that they keep Aerith around and do something different with the conclusion. I loved how FF7 played out. FF7R has taken a different direction, and I'm super excited to see where it goes. If they do end up killing off any of the "main cast", there needs to be substantial justification to do so...So if they choose that, I want to be invested and angry about it in a way that I want to see things through.
I like the idea that the last scene of the new VII series is Cloud's face, and he's one with the life stream and at peace. Cloud would have been the protagonist for many games then and I guess it's worth depicting his end. In the remake, President Shinra talks about mako infusion and degradation. Cloud facing his mortality is a plot I would find interesting.
That would be a cool idea. Making Cloud not some unkillable champion would be a super interesting route to go.
Sephiroth is basically immortal so long as Cloud is alive, Nomura has pushed the point that so long as Cloud lives Sephiroth can will himself back and Cloud now has confirmed Mako Degredation and will most likely die early.
Now add in Sephiroth's words that he will not allow himself OR Cloud to end and it could be a setup for Cloud eventually learning the fact that he and Sephiroth are connected , and thus the only way to protect everyone completely is to let himself join the LS.
Ive seen arguements for why it would be really negative to kill Cloud given his mental trauma and being killed in order to finish Sephiroth would be a bad thing and I've slowly begun to agree with them....however I still think they will end the Saga with Cloud choosing death to ensure that Sephiroth can never return.
Now add in Sephiroth's words that he will not allow himself OR Cloud to end and it could be a setup for Cloud eventually learning the fact that he and Sephiroth are connected , and thus the only way to protect everyone completely is to let himself join the LS.
Ive seen arguements for why it would be really negative to kill Cloud given his mental trauma and being killed in order to finish Sephiroth would be a bad thing and I've slowly begun to agree with them....however I still think they will end the Saga with Cloud choosing death to ensure that Sephiroth can never return.
My argument, was it feels recessive that Cloud sacrifices himself to kill Sephiroth, compared to the original, he manages to beat him in combat and spiritually (the omni slash finisher appeared to be some mind battle) Imo it would be cool if the final game ends with Cloud defeating a greater threat, like eradicating Jenova forever, (the true 'source' as Aerith describes) and Cloud gives everything to accomplish that. Cloud dying could be interesting, but if there was more to it than just defeating Sephiroth again.
OP
OP
I wonder what Sephiroth plans to do with Aerith. Since he has knowledge from the future now, he would know that killing Aerith gives her control of the lifestream, which can shield the planet from Meteor. Wouldn't it be more in Sephiroth's interest to keep her alive then?
I guess we'll have fun traveling from midgar to the chocobo farm for 90+ hours
final boss the midgar Zolom
that's my jaded expectation
I really Want them to CUT THE FLUFF
I have no idea what they'll do now which is really working AGAINST them as far as hype is concerned
final boss the midgar Zolom
that's my jaded expectation
I really Want them to CUT THE FLUFF
I have no idea what they'll do now which is really working AGAINST them as far as hype is concerned
I really want some basic platforming. There's something really janky and fake about walking up to glowing points, pressing X and having nonstandard movements like jumps only happen under that specific context.
We're gonna have a dog-lion-monster in our party, if we can't jump on command then it's a waste.
We're gonna have a dog-lion-monster in our party, if we can't jump on command then it's a waste.
On the contrary, they wanted people talking about it. What's there to talk about if everything is the same?
i meant for me and my personal interest in where the game goes I almost don't care anymore
I hope Cloud doesn't end up being like Noctis lol. Dude is the ultimate survivor, I think he makes it through all of this as well
Also, IIRC degradation is only a thing that affects people of the normal soldier procedure. S cell soldiers like Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth are in the clear
Also, IIRC degradation is only a thing that affects people of the normal soldier procedure. S cell soldiers like Cloud, Zack, and Sephiroth are in the clear
Not necessarily. If they established that Aerith knows she dies (even if she doesn't tell the party how), there can be a subplot where she's trying to avoid that fate yet it still happens, which will create an interesting narrative hook - they thought they freed themselves but they still failed. This is the "death and rebirth" portion of the hero's journey, where they decide to forge ahead despite their resolve being tested.
Cloud wrestling with her death with an added layer of "You promised me you wouldn't die, things would be different, etc…"
I would be surprised if they don't find a way to bring her back to life though. I mean that's the most crowd pleasing ending, where you still get all the gut wrenching drama of her original sacrifice, but this time there's the possibility of a happier ending as a coda to both the OG ending and this Neo Sephiroth being defeated.
Unfortunately that reminds me of JJ Abram's mystery boxes or Westworld series 2, getting too complicated because they didn't want Reddit figuring it out too quickly, and wanted to keep everyone talking and in suspense. I prefer the plot line that fate being defeated, isn't just a marketing gimmick, and they take the characters out of their comfort zone, whether it's divisive or not.
I'm assuming all spoilers are a go, apologies if not:
I think part 2 (Rebirth) starts in Kalm and ends when Weapon awakens after Cloud hands over the black materia. Weapon is also the final boss with the remaining team fighting on the deck of the highwind (mirroring one of the secret boss fights from the OG).
-Episode Yuffie ends with her stealing the team's materia out in the field during the post-credits. This sorts the issue of characters starting a new game from scratch, with the bonus of players who played Part 1 getting materia back when she joins you.
-Materia load outs are a thing, upto three per character.
-group attacks are carried over from Intergrade.
-Yuffie is nerfed by necessity.
-Jessie is at the golden saucer.
-we follow zack's path as a sub-plot (think how you'd alternate between Squall and Laguna in FF8).
-Cait Sith won't have the big moogle (booo!!).
-Fort Condor's story is cut, but the mini game is carried over. Could work a bit like triple triad where you're able to play against different people across the world.
-I expect the world map to feel a lot like FFXV.
I think part 2 (Rebirth) starts in Kalm and ends when Weapon awakens after Cloud hands over the black materia. Weapon is also the final boss with the remaining team fighting on the deck of the highwind (mirroring one of the secret boss fights from the OG).
-Episode Yuffie ends with her stealing the team's materia out in the field during the post-credits. This sorts the issue of characters starting a new game from scratch, with the bonus of players who played Part 1 getting materia back when she joins you.
-Materia load outs are a thing, upto three per character.
-group attacks are carried over from Intergrade.
-Yuffie is nerfed by necessity.
-Jessie is at the golden saucer.
-we follow zack's path as a sub-plot (think how you'd alternate between Squall and Laguna in FF8).
-Cait Sith won't have the big moogle (booo!!).
-Fort Condor's story is cut, but the mini game is carried over. Could work a bit like triple triad where you're able to play against different people across the world.
-I expect the world map to feel a lot like FFXV.
This would make one hell of a game but I think it might be too many locations and too much material for one game. In general though, before the whole fates reveal, I thought that would have been such a good 'Empire Strikes Back' ending to a game. Aerith dead, Cloud is a puppet, Tifa and Barret captured by Shinra, weapons, Sephiroth summoning meteor to destroy the planet. Absolutely killer ending, I hope they use at least a few of these elements when they redo that part
OP
OP
It might be manageable. I recall some insiders here saying Square was pleased with Part 1's success and increased the staff/budget for Part 2. They might also be working with Unreal 5, which can generate assets faster. And this time around they have a foundation for the combat, they have a clear idea of the characters and tone, etc. They can hit the ground running, spending more time crafting places and spaces.
That's the thing though, the fact that they took an, again imo, overcomplicated and embarrisingly executed path to provide something they could have done more subtly. Like sending the occasional sign that Aerith knows more than she lets on (which they already do), events diverging a little bit, things getting a little bit strange, enough for the players to know something is up... and then, bam, she doesn't die in that moment, but later on or whatever, giving the player hope for a while. Hell, include the Fates for all I care, but don't make them bring down every cutscene they're in to KH levels, nor have them be the epic final bosses of your first game.
What you explain in your first paragraph is what I think is going to happen. But the rock-bottom quality of the writing for those aspects in Part 1 and the Compilation has me sweating, ngl.
Regarding her living... I honestly don't know. Really don't. I think they wouldn't, but they'll probably give her character more closure (which I think is a mistake, since the suddenness of her death is what makes it so sad; but I understand it's a different product).
I mean, if she lives, I'd actually find the "we'll follow the overall journey of the OG" comments (I'm paraphrasing from the Ultimania interview) a bit annoying.
I read a popular theory that Cloud will be the final boss, or some dark manifestation inside his mind. I guess that will be a theme of the game. Cloud refusing to let Aerith die, or Sephiroth tries to use Cloud to kill her. Cloud being the last boss may be fairly obvious.
Zack didn't truly get true S Cells.
He would be subject to Degeneration even if Cloud is immune. In CC it says that Cloud is the one to carry true, pure S Cells.
Ah thanks for the heads up! Tbh the lore in a lot of the compilation confuses me but I remembered there was something special about the experiments Hojo ran on Cloud and Zack. I forgot to realize that Zack would be a mix of S and G cells
I agree, I may have some controversial opinions about what I think may take the characters out of their confort zone, but can't really think of another way to begin the game.
I was right originally when I said that Wutai was going to have a bigger role in the Remake saga and INTERmission definitely confirmed that for me.
Part II will start and end in Nibelheim. You go along the same route as the original game. At the end of the game though, you'll fight Jenova and Sephiroth again. This time, Sephiroth reveals Cloud's origin (his version mocking Cloud, anyway) here instead of the Northern Crater from the OG. You fight Sephiroth as a really angry Cloud trying to come to grips with his situation and because of this, Cloud's going to lose the fight but not die. Meanwhile, the ending of the game is grim as you see ShinRa get ready to go for a full frontal assault on Wutai.
Part III opens with you playing as Barret and the others in Wutai assisting the main Avalanche branch and Wutai against ShinRa while Cloud is recovering from his injuries. You try your best but ShinRa is gonna whoop your ass and then some because Rufus is gonna come in and do Order 66 all over Wutai with the main Avalanche branch. You and your crew then get captured and proceed to the Junon execution scene. After that, the rest of the game plays out similarly to how Disc 2 was in the OG. I expect Aerith to die anyway because Sephiroth is trying to trick Cloud into keeping her alive so that he can roam the lifestream freely and cause havoc without Spirit Aerith getting in the way. I'm not sure how the game will end but I do think humans will try to rebuild without using the planet as a resource.
Not a foolproof story and I'm sure some of you can point out some flaws but this is the general framework I'm thinking here. I could be wrong and I'd be ok with that. I'm excited to see what happens.
Part II will start and end in Nibelheim. You go along the same route as the original game. At the end of the game though, you'll fight Jenova and Sephiroth again. This time, Sephiroth reveals Cloud's origin (his version mocking Cloud, anyway) here instead of the Northern Crater from the OG. You fight Sephiroth as a really angry Cloud trying to come to grips with his situation and because of this, Cloud's going to lose the fight but not die. Meanwhile, the ending of the game is grim as you see ShinRa get ready to go for a full frontal assault on Wutai.
Part III opens with you playing as Barret and the others in Wutai assisting the main Avalanche branch and Wutai against ShinRa while Cloud is recovering from his injuries. You try your best but ShinRa is gonna whoop your ass and then some because Rufus is gonna come in and do Order 66 all over Wutai with the main Avalanche branch. You and your crew then get captured and proceed to the Junon execution scene. After that, the rest of the game plays out similarly to how Disc 2 was in the OG. I expect Aerith to die anyway because Sephiroth is trying to trick Cloud into keeping her alive so that he can roam the lifestream freely and cause havoc without Spirit Aerith getting in the way. I'm not sure how the game will end but I do think humans will try to rebuild without using the planet as a resource.
Not a foolproof story and I'm sure some of you can point out some flaws but this is the general framework I'm thinking here. I could be wrong and I'd be ok with that. I'm excited to see what happens.
I think if she comes back it'll be "true ending" type stuff. Like "kill Sephiroth but use the Lifestream Blade ultimate weapon you can only get after the first ending" type deal.
I mean think about it, it makes no sense to end the way the original ended. There's FF7 Sephiroth who still exists in the game, and then there's FF7R Sephiroth who somehow figured out how to escape the original compilation. This remake story can only end when he's defeated.
OP
OP
In this idea of yours, when would the party get the Black Materia from the Ancient Temple? Are you suggesting that come before Nibelheim and then Seph summons Meteor and the Weapons awaken unseen on the other side of the world? All of that (plus Aerith's death) took place before the Junon execution attempt in the OG.
I like the idea of Sephiroth explaining his version of Cloud's story at Nibelheim, tho. It would bookend nicely with the cold open in Nibelheim.