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Young Australian couple traveling across Asia to prove how safe travel is held in prison in Iran for 3 months now
- Thread starter thediamondage
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Are we just to assume that the Iranian government wouldn't lie about the reasons they locked foreigners up? What's truly disgusting in this thread, other than the obvious, is how quickly some people are to accept the word of a corrupt government when the victims are white, but if they weren't, the government would obviously be lying. Because reasons. It's really lame sometimes reading comments in threads here that look like they came right off of Twitter or Youtube comment sections.
You didn't read this thread, did you? This time it's, "LOL you're white! You deserved it."
While in this case it would be pretty safe to assume that flying drones in Tehran isn't a good idea, it's not always easy to be aware of all the laws when you're visiting a new country. For example, even in my country the law on drones isn't very clear (and I wouldn't know it fully) - sometimes some new rules are introduced and sometimes they are removed. Sure, thinks like "don't steal" and "don't kill" are self-evident, but the particularities of each and every law are sometimes too complex.
i did read it
Im saying that the only acceptable response is "damn that sucks"
Like whats the discussion here. Its just devolved into "wow ur racist against whites huh... era bad"
You're right. We should follow the cops' instructions. Let's observe a situation after a black man has been stopped for a broken taillight.
Cop: Let me see your license.
*(black dude reaches for his pocket. Gets shot 15 times)*
And you definitely know the police report is going to say that the officer feared for his life. He reached down after all.
That being said, there are certainly countries where you REALLY want to be clear on the laws. Like in the western countries sure flying a drone may or may not be legal, but at worst you may be fined for getting caught doing that if it's against the law. But in other countries, I would make sure not to do anything risky, because a small infraction could mean imprisonment or worse.
Iran sounds like a place where the authorities might make you disappear - particularly if you are a western visitor - regardless of whether you are operating a drone or not.
Hopefully the Australian Foreign Affairs staff are doing all that they can to secure the release of these poor buggers. No one deserves this shit.
Hopefully the Australian Foreign Affairs staff are doing all that they can to secure the release of these poor buggers. No one deserves this shit.
I don't know what places there are to visit, but I do know that Iran is a land with great history.
When activists decry "victim blaming" in a liberal democracy, it is to provoke within their society the desire for reform of culture and law, because contained within each democracy is the potential for bottom-up reform and progress. What makes this insensible when talking about a foreign country is we cannot forcibly reform someone else's country or that it is usually a very bad idea to attempt to as history has shown.
The unspoken message behind "victim blaming" is the idea "as a society, we place too much burden on the victims of crimes and fail to create cultural or legal systems that can redress their victimization". It is self-critique and saying "we need to do better than this to create a better society for everyone". No one here has the slightest amount of pull over Iranian policy except on a highly abstract stochastic level.
The cop comparison is EXTREMELY weird because the intent behind "should've followed orders" is the naive idea that cops don't abuse their authority. To analogize that with this situation, you would have to believe that Iran obeys international human rights and I think I should not have to explain that they are one of the countries where pretty much everyone with a cursory understanding of international relations knows "this is one of those countries that don't respect West-established human rights standards." If you use "should've followed orders" ironically, you're on the side of "criticism of cops" or just outright "ACAB". "ACAB" as applied to this situation means "no one should ever visit Iran or trust Iran".
You guys are really starting to mix up your progressive slogans here now. Please stop thinking one "woke-ism" can be applied in every situation with some surface similarities.
The unspoken message behind "victim blaming" is the idea "as a society, we place too much burden on the victims of crimes and fail to create cultural or legal systems that can redress their victimization". It is self-critique and saying "we need to do better than this to create a better society for everyone". No one here has the slightest amount of pull over Iranian policy except on a highly abstract stochastic level.
The cop comparison is EXTREMELY weird because the intent behind "should've followed orders" is the naive idea that cops don't abuse their authority. To analogize that with this situation, you would have to believe that Iran obeys international human rights and I think I should not have to explain that they are one of the countries where pretty much everyone with a cursory understanding of international relations knows "this is one of those countries that don't respect West-established human rights standards." If you use "should've followed orders" ironically, you're on the side of "criticism of cops" or just outright "ACAB". "ACAB" as applied to this situation means "no one should ever visit Iran or trust Iran".
You guys are really starting to mix up your progressive slogans here now. Please stop thinking one "woke-ism" can be applied in every situation with some surface similarities.
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They are now being used as political tools because of Trump pulling the US out of the Iran deal and sanctions that were applied which has resulted in increased tensions between Iran and countries like the US, UK and Australia. I do not think rehabilitation is in the cards.
They did a really fucking dumb thing, but they shouldn't be punished the way they are most likely being punished for it.
Oh for sure, absolutely dumbass idea. But at the same time there is no reason to give this murdering bullshit regime any credibility, trust or benefit of the doubt even before we get to their shit video and story riddled with implausible and shady details, even by their standards.
This.
I saw the thread title and thought "fuck, I still want to travel to Japan by foot one day, guess it's too dangerous". Then I read they flew a drone. In Iran. Where war-esque happenings are an everyday thing. Guess I'm still safe.
This forum is embarrassing sometimes. Go watch one of their videos and tell me again that they're some rich white privilege assholes who deserve their fate. They're just doing what they love, seeing and showing the world, including places off the beaten track.
Were they naive or even dumb to fly a drone against local laws in Iran? Yes. But no one deserves more than a fine for that. Unless they've been playing the long game for three years by posting travel videos on YouTube before finally starting their spying assignment in Iran.
But, eh, "white people" am I right!?!
Were they naive or even dumb to fly a drone against local laws in Iran? Yes. But no one deserves more than a fine for that. Unless they've been playing the long game for three years by posting travel videos on YouTube before finally starting their spying assignment in Iran.
But, eh, "white people" am I right!?!
Went to their youtube page, saw a few videos, read the comments in those videos and bow I'm sick. Can't believe people can be so cruel. People hoping they get killed. What the fuck.
All it takes is a tour to bypass the wrong area to end up in some hellhole terrorist house or be captured by the government on trumped up charges claiming you as a spy. It can all change in the blink of an eye if your government decides to butt heads with the country you are visiting anytime.
Unfortunately for these two we don't live in a welcoming and passive world, we live in secretly turbulent times where you will suffer. Being too liberal can definitely cloud one's judgement about these things so I feel bad for them since they probably come from a world where everyone is nice automatically and see the world in a positive light but the truth is you can get captured or killed anywhere if not careful for basically nothing. Hope they get back safe and sound and learn from this.
Unfortunately for these two we don't live in a welcoming and passive world, we live in secretly turbulent times where you will suffer. Being too liberal can definitely cloud one's judgement about these things so I feel bad for them since they probably come from a world where everyone is nice automatically and see the world in a positive light but the truth is you can get captured or killed anywhere if not careful for basically nothing. Hope they get back safe and sound and learn from this.
There are actions and consequences. Laws and policies. These guys made a mistake in their ignorance and broke a law. No, they shouldn't be tortured or imprisoned for it, but they have to face the consequences for their actions, whether they are just or unjust.
I hope they get out safe, soon, and have a bit more common sense in the future.
I think it's within our rights to criticize these peoples ignorance, without being accused of being sociopathic or victim blaming. We're on an online forum. I think we all don't want them to be tortured in prison, but you have to admit this was a really dumb thing to do.
I admire the compassion people have in here, but y'all need to chill.
I hope they get out safe, soon, and have a bit more common sense in the future.
I think it's within our rights to criticize these peoples ignorance, without being accused of being sociopathic or victim blaming. We're on an online forum. I think we all don't want them to be tortured in prison, but you have to admit this was a really dumb thing to do.
I admire the compassion people have in here, but y'all need to chill.
Sure.... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. But what's ultimately more important is empathy. Chiming in with "That sucks for them, buuuuut... they shoulda known better." makes it seem like you view empathy as secondary to the fact that they fucked up.
If some dumbass decided to run into a burning building and unsurprisingly came running back out engulfed in flames, your primary concern should be their well-being, not judging them for doing something stupid.
If some dumbass decided to run into a burning building and unsurprisingly came running back out engulfed in flames, your primary concern should be their well-being, not judging them for doing something stupid.
"American" tho.
The whole argument here boils down to the fact that being able to think flying a drone in a know totalitarian country involves a level of cultural ignorance that American culture, unfortunately, specializes in. Someone raised in the culture of a place of less privilege and less 'This country is the way the world is' propaganda wouldn't make the same mistake.
Thing is we don't know if the accusations against them are true or accurate and frankly we have no reason to believe Iranian statements.
A couple of nice juicy geopolitical stooges might be just what they were looking for - and the Instagram wholesomeness/attractive/disgraceful western decadence would play well at home and abroad and increase their value for leverage and prisoner swapping. At least theoretically.
For all we know the government might have invited them to fly drones and set them up.
Or there were no drones at all.
Or they were obnoxious drone flying scofflaws.
We won't know until they're released which unlucky version of those possibilities is actually accurate - and there's no useful occam's Razor for this situation since any of the extremes are perfectly viable in Iran and with tourists.
Happens every day in Trumps America unfortunately. No one with a heart would dare chastise those people for not knowing the laws of the land they were coming to. That's why it's awful seeing sentiments I normally associate with the FOX news crowd being espoused here.
i don't really understand how victim blaming applies to this situation. was someone holding them at gunpoint forcing them to fly a drone? who else is there to blame for their actions but them?
that being said, i hope they are safe and are released.
that being said, i hope they are safe and are released.
The Iranian court will hand them trumped up charges like declaring them as American or Israeli spies posing as tourists and just lock them up for decades.
Plus, they flew a drone in a country that is actively paranoid about foreign drones intruding in their airspace. As much as I hate to say it, but these couples are absolutely fucked.
Plus, they flew a drone in a country that is actively paranoid about foreign drones intruding in their airspace. As much as I hate to say it, but these couples are absolutely fucked.
*claps*
Heck to my understanding some countries will want to be bribed to let you off the hook. Even here in the states we have shady shit from cops outside urban areas with their over reliance on civil forfeitures to quasi-legally rob citizens
Good luck if you're a foreigner passing through even after we remove Trump because the reversals on these situations are long and not common as the linked article points out.
This couple are Australian and their government literally has Iran listed as a country that A) They are prone to arresting Westerners. B) Suggest you don't do anything to stand out. C) Specifically mentioned don't take pictures that can be construed as suspicious.
Sheesh.
Honestly, rule of thumb for Westerners is that it isn't safe to travel anywhere in the Middle East, even the places that seem safe. With a somewhat regular frequency you hear stories about tourists who are women or gay or just doing something dumb being arrested and spending months in prison or worse from all of these countries. Even if you're not paying attention to that, the knowledge that the Middle East has been filled with warring tribes and backwards laws is pretty common. And barring that, it's pretty widely known that the US (and its allies) significantly fucked the region even harder after 9/11. Unless you're a citizen of these countries I would always be wary of traveling to them. Even then... you need to be extremely careful.
He has dual citizenship, he is a Chinese national who was born and raised in China. He is a PhD candidate at Princeton, and was arrested for doing research in libraries. The whole point of me posting that is to show that this has happened to a lot of different people for many different (mostly bullshit) reasons.
Yeah now think about all the posts on the first page saying "no sympathy".
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