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Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
31,966
As above (e: or, well, bottom of the last page now lol), it's what makes it such a wonderful language imo. That is coming from someone who's learned it as their native language though, and hasn't had to deal with the frustrations of trying to come at it later in life. I love the flexibility and complete lack of resistance to adopting new words.

 

Deleted member 8257

Oct 26, 2017
24,586
Whats even more bullshit to me is the way we pronounce some words. For example: Indianapolis. We pronounce it as "indi-naapolis". But we don't pronounce it as "Indiana-polis". Or comfortable: pronounced as "comfrtbl". Why is it not pronounced in the same way we say "comforting?" Why are certain letters eaten in the vocabulary?

And don't even get me started on silent letters.
 

Tiamant

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,361
I'm learning German and it really has made me appreciate how dumbfoundingly easy English is. Like, German is famous for being a complicated language to learn, but coming from Spanish there are certain similarities such as noun gender and verb conjugation that makes it slightly easier to grasp. I'm confident that I'll be able to have a B2-C1 level in 4-5 years. English? If your are a bit serious you can have that level in 2 years or less.
 

crazillo

Member
Apr 5, 2018
8,173
Agreed. Spoken as read is much easier for non-natives.

Try Chinese though. It took me even longer to master. 物理 and 无力 are both 'wuli' in Pinyin, but one means physics and the other one no power/powerless. So many examples of this. Tones are often different but that doesn't help a poor foreigner much. Or even the subtle differences between man, mang, men, meng or j/q/x: jiao, qiao, xiao... :-)
 

Hecht

Too damn tired
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,730
Whats even more bullshit to me is the way we pronounce some words. For example: Indianapolis. We pronounce it as "indi-naapolis". But we don't pronounce it as "Indiana-polis". Or comfortable: pronounced as "comfrtbl". Why is it not pronounced in the same way we say "comforting?" Why are certain letters eaten in the vocabulary?

And don't even get me started on silent letters.
This always annoys me whenever I hear "financing" in commercials.
FINE-ants
vs
FIN-ant-sing
 

HardRojo

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,093
Peru
Yeah it's weird af sometimes, but I'm glad I can speak it now so I don't have to worry about learning the whole fucking thing from scratch. When I was 15 I was already somewhat fluent, but I think it wasn't until my first trip to the US at 19 yo that I became a lot more confident with it.
With that said, kanji in Japanese can be weird as fuck too, not only are they hard to memorize, their pronunciation will vary depending on what other characters surround them and shit like that.
 

Doggg

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Nov 17, 2017
14,437
I don't like the word Wednesday. That looks like it should be pronounced Wed-nis-day

Come on now, son
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,197
New Jersey
Do you think homonyms are unique to the English language or something? Why is it always people who only speak English that fetishisize English the most?
 

samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
English spellings of bourgeoisie ranked in terms of increasing levels of boujee.

boujee
bourgeois
bourgeoisie
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
Yeah, but tonal languages have their own similar quirks where just the way you pronounce a word that's "spelled" the same changes it's meaning. I think all languages have weird oddities, especially the newer they are, like english
 

Reym

Member
Jul 15, 2019
2,649
English is equal parts frustrating and fascinating. I love how flexible it is, but I hate when it doesn't follow the rules, haha!

The main good thing I'll say is at least we don't have to deal too much with gendered words. That seems like a pain.

Somewhat unrelated, but I love the trivia of the name of '&'. It used to just be called "and" and was part of the alphabet at the end. But when you were reciting the alphabet and got to the end it was said as "and per se and" (as in, this character by itself is the word "and") which devolved into "ampersand".
 

Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,741
As a Dutch speaker, I've always found English to be relatively easy. Sure; it has some very complex things going on but (in my experience) it has been much easier to pick up than the Latin-based languages. Or German, for that matter.

Dutch is probably the closest modern language to English. I once saw a Dutch film with subtitles and by the end was barely reading them. Helps that I took German as well, I think.

People often talk about English vocabulary being tough, since it's been borrowed from all over, but our grammar is also idiosyncratic. There's a book about how our grammar doesn't look like much else, thanks to all the invading.

www.goodreads.com

Our Magnificent Bastard Tongue: The Untold History of E…

A survey of the quirks and quandaries of the English la…
 

MajesticSoup

Banned
Feb 22, 2019
1,935
A non native english speaker asking me about an english word.
'Am I pronouncing it incorrectly?'
'Youre saying it.. umm phonetically. But no one says it that way.'
'....'
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,886
You're righ
Whats even more bullshit to me is the way we pronounce some words. For example: Indianapolis. We pronounce it as "indi-naapolis". But we don't pronounce it as "Indiana-polis". Or comfortable: pronounced as "comfrtbl". Why is it not pronounced in the same way we say "comforting?" Why are certain letters eaten in the vocabulary?

And don't even get me started on silent letters.
The first part of Comfortable is pronounced the exact same way as comforting, People who slur it together are pronouncing it lazily.

Like people who say "prob-ley" for probably.
 

MoogleWizard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,680
As a native English speaker, trying to learn other languages has been extremely eye-opening as to what a rickety, barely-held-together mess English is. Endless respect to people whose native tongues make much more sense than ours do putting in the hard work to learn our bullshit nonsense speak :P
English is not hard at all, compared to e.g. German, French or Mandarin. It's a very efficient language, English grammar is comparatively simple due to things like the loss of inflection, grammatical case and grammatical gender, or the extremely limited conjugation. It's a good choice as the language for trade or science because of this relative simplicity.
 

AlexBasch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,307
During a Destiny 2 raid people looked weird at me because I'm pretty sure I said "peace" and they understood "piss". Speaking your language is way too hard for me sometimes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,146
Finland
While it is complex, I feel it has an advantage in that you can be really sloppy with it and still get your point across. Maybe it just varies by personal experience, but I think of all the times in my life where someone speaks really broken English to me and I have no problem understanding what they mean, even though the grammar is all wrong, which happens often as so many people learn English as a second language. But its also possible everyone thinks that about their native language.
Well I think to some extent it applies to most languages. Like, in Finnish there are a lot of inflections, but immigrants often don't use them properly. Their speech can still be very understandable in most cases. In English though it's certainly even easier in that regard, because there are so few inflections.

E.g. in Finnish "I speak English well" would be "minä puhun suomea hyvin". A non-native Finnish speaker who's not so familiar with the inflections yet, would probably say something like "minä puhu hyvä suomi" (the order of the words being also slightly wrong there - translating more to "I speak good English"). So in many languages with more inflections, although that example would still be very easy for a native speaker to understand, there's certainly a lot more room to make errors like that. But at least Swedish has it very similar to English, though there are some large differences too (like the gender system in the words).
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,565
Ireland
If you think English is bad, look up Lion-Eating Poet in the Stone Den.

石室詩士施氏,
嗜獅,
誓食十獅。
氏時時適市視獅。
十時,
適十獅適市。
是時,
適施氏適市。
氏視是十獅,
恃矢勢,
使是十獅逝世。
氏拾是十獅尸,
適石室。
石室濕,
氏使侍拭石室。
石室拭,
氏始試食十獅尸。
食時,
始識是十獅尸,
實十石獅尸。
試釋是事。

I highly recommend putting that into Google Translate, and let the website read it back.

The translation asked me to explain. I can't!
 

PanickyFool

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,947
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."

― James D. Nicoll
lol.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
No one posted this yet?

We'll begin with a box and the plural is boxes,
But the plural of ox should be oxen not oxes.
Then one bird is a goose, but two are called geese,
Yet the plural of moose should never be meese.
You may find a lone mouse or a nest full of mice,
Yet the plural of house is houses, not hice.
If the plural of man is always called men,
Why shouldn't the plural of pan be called pen?
If I spoke of my foot and then show you my feet,
And you give me a boot, would a pair be called beet?
If one is a tooth and a whole set are teeth,
Why shouldn't the plural of booth be called beeth?
Then one may be that, and three would be those,
Yet hat in the plural would never be hose,
And more than one cat is cats, not cose.
We speak of a brother, and also of brethren,
But though we say mother, we never say methren.
Then the masculine pronouns are he, his and him.
Why are the feminine not she, shis and shim?
So English, I fancy you all will agree,
Is the craziest language you ever did see.
 

just_myles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,452
9oeth6i7ylf01.png

well, do adjectives even count?
 

Arilian

Member
Oct 29, 2020
2,347
I tried to look up what stupid things French has and the only thing people came up with was quatre-vingts
Learning number is one of the first thing everybody learn, so, of course, this one will stay with people 🙂

For those liking this kind of word play, in France, one of the master of the genre is Bobby Lapointe. But be prepared to scratch your head, even with the lyrics 😁 (I don't think a beginner will be able to understand all of his songs).

He even tried to play, a little bit, with english :

www.youtube.com

From Two To Two

Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group From Two To Two · Boby Lapointe L'Integrale Des Enregistrements ℗ 1966 Mercury Music Group Released on: 1998-01-...

The thing with French is that... there are rules, abeit extremely weird ones, but once you know these rules, pronunciation/spelling is pretty consistent with just a few exceptions (ie: est, ouest).
A fun one : De Broglie is pronounced like De Breuil. But because some people knows it and some people don't, in Strasbourg, the De Broglie tram station is announced with both pronunciations 😁

You also have the different way to pronounce a Z at the end of a name like in Metz. In Lorraine, we pronounce it like in Messe but the rest of the country is pronouncing the T and the Z. When we were younger, playing Age of Empire 2, my brothers and I spend a lot of time scratching our heads to understand from where this Jean de Metz fellow came, because his name was not pronounced like a someone from Metz would pronounce it but like an actor from the rest of France would. Still about the Z : a family's friend has a house in a small atlantic coastal city, Les Moutiers-en-Retz and I think they don't pronounce the Z at all.

Another one : we have a bunch of lakes in the Vosges mountains and near those lakes are a couple of cities with Mer (Sea) in their name but one of them is not pronounced like the other. So in Longemer and Retournemer, Mer is pronounced like in Mer (a bit like in mère i.e. mother) but if you do the same with Gérardmer it's obvious you're not from here 😄 (I think the leading theory is that Mer in Gérardmer is about a garden, not a sea)

I don't think we have as much accent in France than, let's say, the UK, but it's not the same thing as saying we don't have accents. What can give this impression is the fact that Paris has such an important role in France, national TV / radios only have one accent and people with another accents can be mocked, even if they are France's Prime Minister like Jean Castex is, or subtitled...
This is different from a language like French where an official government apparatus oversees all matters related to the French language.
The Académie may think that, but it's not true. For one thing, its authority is barely recognized in France (and if it is, it's only by conservatives so up their own ass than they refuse to use a feminine title to speak about a woman's title), and other french speaking countries are laughing their ass off about the Académie. And those countries also have their own apparatus to work on french.

We do so too in France (laughing at the Académie) : its last complete dictionary is from the last century (and not like the end of the last century: it's from 1935) and they are working on the 9th version since 1990. Le Robert and Larousse are publishing revised dictionaries every year, used by millions of people, from children with le Petit Robert or le Petit Larousse to adults.

And the only time the Académie tried to publish a grammar book, they were mocked endlessly by grammarians. One even write a whole book, debunking all the mistakes inside the Académie's grammar book. It was in 1932 and the Académie never tried to publish another one.

The Académie is so sloppy that it took them months to speak about the gender of Covid 19, while, as far as I know, in Quebec, they (I don't remember who) were faster to say it should be a feminine word (because it's a disease and we say la maladie) (I think Morrigan lives in Canada and will have a better understanding than me on this subject). Now, in France, we use both la Covid and le Covid because people started to say le Covid and the Académie said latter "oh, it should be la covid, but I guess now people are used to say le covid, so use what you want".

This video is really long but interesting and is about the Académie :

www.youtube.com

La VÉRITÉ sur l'Académie française

Bénéficiez d'un mois gratuit avec l'achat de 3 ans d'abos avec le code LINGUISTICAE ici : http://nordvpn.com/linguisticae Abonne-toi, like, et partage cette ...

It's in french, but it's subtitled and the automated translation tool seems to do a good enough job even if it doesn't cover everything (no subtiles to translate when walls of texts appear on the screen).
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,969
English is also a language for people who hate vowels and would rather replace them with indistinct grunts.
 

Blackpuppy

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,191
You also have the different way to pronounce a Z at the end of a name like in Metz. In Lorraine, we pronounce it like in Messe but the rest of the country is pronouncing the T and the Z. When we were younger, playing Age of Empire 2, my brothers and I spend a lot of time scratching our heads to understand from where this Jean de Metz fellow came, because his name was not pronounced like a someone from Metz would pronounce it but like an actor from the rest of France would. Still about the Z : a family's friend has a house in a small atlantic coastal city, Les Moutiers-en-Retz and I think they don't pronounce the Z at all.

Another one : we have a bunch of lakes in the Vosges mountains and near those lakes are a couple of cities with Mer (Sea) in their name but one of them is not pronounced like the other. So in Longemer and Retournemer, Mer is pronounced like in Mer (a bit like in mère i.e. mother) but if you do the same with Gérardmer it's obvious you're not from here 😄 (I think the leading theory is that Mer in Gérardmer is about a garden, not a sea)

My wife is from St Dié and I lived in Epinal for 3 years and Strasbourg for another 3. I know exactly what you're talking about! :P
 

nny

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,261
Dear English,

Why do you ignore the "r" in "February", but add one in "Colonel"?
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
I dunno - I'm learning Thai, and we've got things like the words for far and close sounding the same except for a difference in intonation, and lots of exceptions and archaic letters and spellings that are rarely used. Seems like something not specific to English at all.
Simes was right - language is double-plus ungood!
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,958
Learning number is one of the first thing everybody learn, so, of course, this one will stay with people 🙂


For those liking this kind of word play, in France, one of the master of the genre is Bobby Lapointe. But be prepared to scratch your head, even with the lyrics 😁 (I don't think a beginner will be able to understand all of his songs).

He even tried to play, a little bit, with english :

www.youtube.com

From Two To Two

Provided to YouTube by Universal Music Group From Two To Two · Boby Lapointe L'Integrale Des Enregistrements ℗ 1966 Mercury Music Group Released on: 1998-01-...


A fun one : De Broglie is pronounced like De Breuil. But because some people knows it and some people don't, in Strasbourg, the De Broglie tram station is announced with both pronunciations 😁

You also have the different way to pronounce a Z at the end of a name like in Metz. In Lorraine, we pronounce it like in Messe but the rest of the country is pronouncing the T and the Z. When we were younger, playing Age of Empire 2, my brothers and I spend a lot of time scratching our heads to understand from where this Jean de Metz fellow came, because his name was not pronounced like a someone from Metz would pronounce it but like an actor from the rest of France would. Still about the Z : a family's friend has a house in a small atlantic coastal city, Les Moutiers-en-Retz and I think they don't pronounce the Z at all.

Another one : we have a bunch of lakes in the Vosges mountains and near those lakes are a couple of cities with Mer (Sea) in their name but one of them is not pronounced like the other. So in Longemer and Retournemer, Mer is pronounced like in Mer (a bit like in mère i.e. mother) but if you do the same with Gérardmer it's obvious you're not from here 😄 (I think the leading theory is that Mer in Gérardmer is about a garden, not a sea)

I don't think we have as much accent in France than, let's say, the UK, but it's not the same thing as saying we don't have accents. What can give this impression is the fact that Paris has such an important role in France, national TV / radios only have one accent and people with another accents can be mocked, even if they are France's Prime Minister like Jean Castex is, or subtitled...

The Académie may think that, but it's not true. For one thing, its authority is barely recognized in France (and if it is, it's only by conservatives so up their own ass than they refuse to use a feminine title to speak about a woman's title), and other french speaking countries are laughing their ass off about the Académie. And those countries also have their own apparatus to work on french.

We do so too in France (laughing at the Académie) : its last complete dictionary is from the last century (and not like the end of the last century: it's from 1935) and they are working on the 9th version since 1990. Le Robert and Larousse are publishing revised dictionaries every year, used by millions of people, from children with le Petit Robert or le Petit Larousse to adults.

And the only time the Académie tried to publish a grammar book, they were mocked endlessly by grammarians. One even write a whole book, debunking all the mistakes inside the Académie's grammar book. It was in 1932 and the Académie never tried to publish another one.

The Académie is so sloppy that it took them months to speak about the gender of Covid 19, while, as far as I know, in Quebec, they (I don't remember who) were faster to say it should be a feminine word (because it's a disease and we say la maladie) (I think Morrigan lives in Canada and will have a better understanding than me on this subject). Now, in France, we use both la Covid and le Covid because people started to say le Covid and the Académie said latter "oh, it should be la covid, but I guess now people are used to say le covid, so use what you want".

This video is really long but interesting and is about the Académie :

www.youtube.com

La VÉRITÉ sur l'Académie française

Bénéficiez d'un mois gratuit avec l'achat de 3 ans d'abos avec le code LINGUISTICAE ici : http://nordvpn.com/linguisticae Abonne-toi, like, et partage cette ...

It's in french, but it's subtitled and the automated translation tool seems to do a good enough job even if it doesn't cover everything (no subtiles to translate when walls of texts appear on the screen).

This is great thank you!
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,647
...I always thought that was a different thing. 🤪

Then again I've never understood why my own dad pronounces mayor as mare so what do I know?

Maybe he has a horse in the race?

*cue drums*

But yeah, "English" is weird only because it's absorbed so many different things while discarding other bits. Stuff like non-standardised pronunciations is understandably pretty odd for non-native speakers, but we also don't gender inanimate objects SO.