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You haven’t played the best PlayStation exclusive of 2020 - Polygon (it's 13 Sentinels: Aegis Rim)
- Thread starter Dreamboum
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This is not the game with a convoluted reason why people are stuck as teens or something?
I think the best way to describe 13 Sentinels is to not compare it to anything and just recommend it to people who like sci-fi, time travel, and most of all, good writing and dialogue (and are not afraid of anime like most people seem to be these days)
At most I can think of one character who kind of sort of qualifies as this but said character is relatively minor and isn't even slightly sexualized
No, from what I've seen. I'm only a few hours in though.
I'm not going to excuse the sexualizing because it's there and there's no reason for it to be there besides fanservice. But as far as I can tell, this game has a much lighter focus on it than many other anime-style games like Persona 5, Nier Automata, Genshin Impact, Fire Emblem, AI, and so on.
From what I've seen there are maybe three really standout instances of unnecessarily sexual stuff:
- the mech pilots are naked when in their mechs, but the portraits are framed so that you can't see anything. I don't know why they're naked. One character goes "why am I naked?" once, but none of the dialogue I've seen refers to it again.
- each pilot has to tap some sort of sign or symbol on their body to call their mech. All the guys have their signs on their hands or arms, but all the girls have their signs somewhere revealing, like on their thigh or belly.
- there's one woman who has ridiculous proportions, and stands out like a sore thumb because of it.
That's it, as far as I've seen. Everything else about the game seems very focused on telling a sci-fi story, and doesn't touch on the sexual stuff at all. I haven't seen common stupid sexual anime tropes like swimsuit/bath scenes, people falling on each other, clothes coming off for no reason, and nothing like the idiocy that is AI's action sequences.
So while I'm not excusing the presence of fanservice, it doesn't seem to be the focus of this game at all.
Well fuck me. I've been avoiding this game for nothing.
I've played through the game, and can't think of much else.
As mentioned above, there are still a few things people might find objectionable, but the game is significantly tamer than Vanillaware's previous games, and most things in the genre.
You mention them having to explain or handwave away clothes if the developers did decide to have them be clothed in the pods, but as far as I was able to find after finishing the game, there's no explanation given why everyone with glasses or hair accessories is still wearing those in the pods even though they shouldn't have those.
its one of those weird things where its an exclusive just because, not really something they set out to do but just ended up happening
Honestly I agree, those shouldn't have showed up either. I guess maybe they were afraid of going too far and giving away the twist in advance
i disagree with this kind of pointless comparison.
13 sentinels breaks up its story and can be experienced almost completely non linear in small bite sizes which each individually has their own twists and revelations, but comes together completely logically in the end as a whole narrative. You cannot do this in a book. It's basically like a CYOA book which can also be read chronologically and still be as satisfying. Each character's story is self contained enough that it doesn't spoil the others (some rare exceptions), but is integral to understanding the plots of other characters fully.
This story must have went through hundreds of iterations to get it just right.
true! I didn't even think about it lol, but that just goes to show as I said they could have handwaved it away. I wasn't criticizing the idea that they could handwave away whatever they like, just saying that it would've been rather obvious of an oversight to have fully dressed pod bodies. Glasses and stuff should've been taken out too if they were deliberately drawing nude portraits though, that's silly.
For those genuinely concerned about the amount of gross anime garbage in this game, I can assure it is basically non-existent here. This is much to my own relief and surprise.
Regardless of the validity of the in-game explanation, there's very little to see here on the eroticized minor front.
I think whether or not one enjoys the game is way more reliant on their tolerance for other anime tropes and visual novels in general.
I say this as someone who went into the game with a high degree of trepidation, specifically because of how it was advertised.
Regardless of the validity of the in-game explanation, there's very little to see here on the eroticized minor front.
I think whether or not one enjoys the game is way more reliant on their tolerance for other anime tropes and visual novels in general.
I say this as someone who went into the game with a high degree of trepidation, specifically because of how it was advertised.
Hmm, I don't think that poster is saying this could have been done in a book or even that it's necessarily better done in a novel format, they're just saying that the story itself is nothing to write home about especially when compared to novels.
I somewhat agree with their general idea, but the insulting tone is way over the line imo.
To your point, you can commend the story for taking a "you choose" approach. Personally, I find it an interesting concept with, again personally, little to no gain whatsoever. If the story was presented strictly linearly(as in they choose the exact order of stories for me to go through) , I really don't see it affecting my enjoyment of the overarching story at all. Seeing someone go a different route is more of "neat, I guess" for me than a mind blowing or necessary thing.
So I'm not really a fan of the art style (nothing against it, it's just doesn't seem like my thing from every screenshot and video I've seen). I also don't really care for mechs or visual novels. Should I try it anyway?
This game isn't a visual novel lmfao where did this meme come from.
Literally who calls games like Night in the Woods or Oxenfree visual novels.
Literally who calls games like Night in the Woods or Oxenfree visual novels.
Is the gameplay actually good, or is it good because it's some visual novel thing?
Because I don't want to play that.
Because I don't want to play that.
There's basically the VN/adventure Gameplay where you move characters around small spaces and basically watch dialogue and pick some options.
There's also an RTS segment where you control six people piloting mechas. It's reasonably fun at first, but I found it kind of a slog doing a bit of it in succession. Maybe if RTS Gameplay is more your thing, you might be into it. Some people like it, some people put it in easy to get through it as quickly as possible.
So, this is off the cuff and some of it might sound stupid, but I think there's a whole host of ideas explored in the unique format it goes for. I'm going to use spoilers for the game so please don't read of you intend to play it.
The game delivers a constant amalgamation of cultural pastiches, tropes and references, particularly to the sci fi genre. If you consider the memetic way the narrative implies humanity will continue it's legacy on new planets, it's interesting to see the way the game itself packs its ideas into references we can understand.
That each character is often host to their own sci-fi tropes and plot beats adds to the nature of a fractured humanity, as they all see the world differently and are presented different truths. The game showed us that a splintered humanity that focuses on their own stories and lives led to the possible end of humanity through both the nanobot virus as well as Shinonome because of the conflict of individuals.
Yet the game ultimately delivers a promise of humanity working together and overcoming our individual weaknesses. 13 individual stories about a cast that in a previous life ultimately killed each other and almost doomed humanity come together with a promise that knowing despite their inevitable loss they will fight to keep one another alive, a stark difference to their earlier incarnations that were doomed by selfishness. Sci-fi stories often show a dystopian future at odds with a utopian hope, like technology will save us but our nature doomed us. Here instead we're given a modern setting shown to be false, a future that is doomed, and a new beginning that only happens when they combine the technology and information of the future against the underlying cultural values that have helped us overcome the worst behind us before - look at the explosion of media, particularly in Japan, in the aftermath of WWII and the way creators used media to reckon with the harsh realities of that devastation.
We all have our own paths and our own stories but only by sharing our truths openly are we going to survive.
And this is just one train of thought. I think dismissing the nature of how the battle sections contribute to the nature of the story is something too many people do, because it's in these where you can see the cast acting in unity in the aftermaths of the events of the story, where even in their incomplete understanding they've clearly taken a different direction than their genetic ancestors. Is it because the program, which was designed to continue humanities accomplishments, successfully ensured that these protagonists could learn the lessons that failed them in the "future"?
Does the act of playing a videogame, or writing a pop song, or having intimate knowledge of movies, or loving culinary arts, or participating in sports, or knowing scientific knowledge, or fighting for your nation, or finding love in others make you stronger and more human and more prepared to tackle problems past, present and future? 13 Sentinels seemingly believes so.
That each character is often host to their own sci-fi tropes and plot beats adds to the nature of a fractured humanity, as they all see the world differently and are presented different truths. The game showed us that a splintered humanity that focuses on their own stories and lives led to the possible end of humanity through both the nanobot virus as well as Shinonome because of the conflict of individuals.
Yet the game ultimately delivers a promise of humanity working together and overcoming our individual weaknesses. 13 individual stories about a cast that in a previous life ultimately killed each other and almost doomed humanity come together with a promise that knowing despite their inevitable loss they will fight to keep one another alive, a stark difference to their earlier incarnations that were doomed by selfishness. Sci-fi stories often show a dystopian future at odds with a utopian hope, like technology will save us but our nature doomed us. Here instead we're given a modern setting shown to be false, a future that is doomed, and a new beginning that only happens when they combine the technology and information of the future against the underlying cultural values that have helped us overcome the worst behind us before - look at the explosion of media, particularly in Japan, in the aftermath of WWII and the way creators used media to reckon with the harsh realities of that devastation.
We all have our own paths and our own stories but only by sharing our truths openly are we going to survive.
And this is just one train of thought. I think dismissing the nature of how the battle sections contribute to the nature of the story is something too many people do, because it's in these where you can see the cast acting in unity in the aftermaths of the events of the story, where even in their incomplete understanding they've clearly taken a different direction than their genetic ancestors. Is it because the program, which was designed to continue humanities accomplishments, successfully ensured that these protagonists could learn the lessons that failed them in the "future"?
Does the act of playing a videogame, or writing a pop song, or having intimate knowledge of movies, or loving culinary arts, or participating in sports, or knowing scientific knowledge, or fighting for your nation, or finding love in others make you stronger and more human and more prepared to tackle problems past, present and future? 13 Sentinels seemingly believes so.
The non linear nature of the game is a constant conflict of ideas and threads that seem distinct, but at it's core the game has a theme of disparate, unrelated ideas and stories all having threads that ties them together, just like the game design.
I think dismissiveness that this doesn't compare to a book shows a profound lack of understanding of the story the game told and the mechanics by which the narrative has been shared. Similarly, I think your takeaway that it was "neat" but meaningless is just way too surface level of a read, though it's one I respect a good deal more than the former. I thought House of Leaves was neat, but it was also extremely meaningful in how it was designed in its medium and how it challenged the reader. I don't think this videogame is any different.
Which all of this isn't to say I think it's the greatest writing ever. I think the writing is fine, I think the story is pretty great but I can understand those who disagree, what I love about this game is the way it challenges conventions of narrative design in gaming, and it does it in a way that unique to storytelling. That someone says "read a book" is just like... so dumb. Maybe they should read a book about unconventional storytelling. Because 13 Sentinels is something that should be celebrated for its accomplishments and not denigrated for its medium, because regressive possession over how stories can be told definitely doesn't belong in the future.
The term is now used way too much for Japanese-made games. It makes it very hard to tell what's actually a Visual Novel (being pretty much all story with little or no gameplay) when people constantly apply the term to graphic adventure games with heavy puzzle content.
Oh so they're actually 9000 year old dragons?
EDIT: Of course I'm late with this joke but, yeah, none of the explanations have convinced me. It's creepy to me.
I read the explanation for why they appear this way in this game and I still think it's creepy, Persona 5 is also creepy and weird with this type of stuff.
Arguably, "very little to see on the eroticized minor front" is still too much.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure it's a great game, but stuff like this needs to change IMO.
I appreciate the writeup, and the thematic reasons presented in the spoiler for offering a non-linear/multi-protagonist story is an interesting way of looking at it and not something I had considered previously.
I'm not saying that this story should be portrayed differently. It's a fun concept, and I always like games to utilize their medium more to their benefit. I even usually adore the concept of non-linear story telling in general and the flow chart style in some games like VLR greatly appeal to me, and I'm glad that it stuck out in sentinels for you as something to love.
I don't even particularly dislike how it's done here especially with other far more egregious problems the game/story has personally, but generally, the non-linear story telling here just didn't really do much of anything for me.
I mean it sounds really interesting but then I see stuff like this:
And it's an instant nope. I just deeply dislike this kind of style and you can tie yourself in convoluted knots narratively justifying why it is like it is, but honestly I find this sort of pseudo juvenile sexualisation creepy.
This is just marketing, in the actual game there are arguably only two "sexualized" portraits of these characters (showing some back), which they didn't really bother doing for the other characters, and the actual game doesn't call attention to it either because the story is played fairly straight. It's not necessary obviously, but no the game doesn't really have any problematic elements besides this.
In fact I'd say the most egregious example of sexualization that actually sticks out is the Morimura character and her sprite with the skintight suit and big boobs, although this is an adult character. And going back to what I said about the story being played straight, no one even mentions her figure or suit except for a few minor remarks.
I agree that from the PS exclusives I played this year (only one I want to play but I have no time is P5R, but I played the original game and Royal is not a complete new game after all) 13 Sentinels is the best by far. Amazing game, Vanillaware has delivered something really special and different from their older games.
The story during the first half is something really special, and even if I think that the 2nd half gets repetitive at points, it has some final revelations that are simply mindblowing.
The story during the first half is something really special, and even if I think that the 2nd half gets repetitive at points, it has some final revelations that are simply mindblowing.
That explanation is also not true, because if it were it would be terrible. A mod really should delete that post because it's apparently misleading a lot of people in this thread.
The explanation (which is a massive, game-ending spoiler) is as below. It's been posted before but it seems like it needs another go-round.
When the characters are "in the robots" they aren't actually in robots at all. As the Polygon article notes, the plot aspects are drawn from a wide variety of canonical science fiction works, and this part is The Matrix. The setting of the game is The Matrix. The protagonists are clones growing in their gestation pods, exactly like Neo was. The inside of the robot is just how the simulation is presenting the pod environment to their mind in preparation for their... hatching? Emergence?
That's somewhat simplified because the plot of this game is extravagantly detailed. I think there's a real issue in here where the marketing of the game and the framing of certain shots having some questionable aspects are being conflated with the plot and writing themselves being distasteful. For sure, if you were reading this as a prose novel your eyebrows would remain un-raised. Okay maybe not, but they'd rise from surprise over the plot twists.
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I mean it's just different tastes. I found three houses characters and story so enthralling that I spent 100 hours in the game going through all different routes, whereas I'm still trying to force myself through TLOU1.
If you were looking for an amazing story on one playthrough of Three Houses I'm not surprised you didn't get that. For me what made it amazing was how things played out differently on each of the three routes, it made it a pretty complex political story that got deeper and deeper the more you work to get the high level support conversations with different characters. It's possible to miss it entirely, but the gameworld and lore is EXTREMELY fleshed out
Anyways, ERA you got me to get this game for Christmas. Hopefully it doesn't disappoint!
Well, the medium is the message. The framings they chose and the designs they went with are there and do point to underlying issues, IMO.
EDIT: And, again, not trying to discredit the game or its story. But this is also an aspect of the game that should be looked at critically.
I don't know if this game will work for you, but it's very different from Fire Emblem: Three Houses.
It's a very plot-heavy game in that a lot of things happen, but it's relatively economical in its presentation compared to many games like it. Each adventure game segment is a 10-20 minute chunk that conveys something meaningful, and it doesn't waste much time on needless repetition, trusting the player to use the Analysis features if they're confused or want to learn more. The customization around the strategy segments is relatively straightforward, primarily focused around upgrading a set of weapons for each character. Unlike a lot of visual novels that have lost me, 13 Sentinels presents its plot hooks quickly and maintains forward momentum throughout.
Where it bears similarities to Fire Emblem is that the characters don't go too far beyond the stock anime archetypes they're built from. They each have their own arc of character development, and there are many different kinds of satisfying interactions among the cast, but they aren't individually all that textured.
Oh, I agree. As I mentioned in my previous post, George Kamitani brings baggage to this work for his designs on prior games even before we look at this one specifically. There is, however, a real frustration when it comes to discussing the parts of this game that should be critiqued when a thread is full of both obvious misinformation and what seems like a reasonable amount of argumentation happening either from willful ignorance or bad faith (I am not accusing you of these things, just sense that I and clearly others have gotten.)
Indeed, I'm shocked nobody has brought up even more distasteful aspects of this game's marketing campaign, such as the blessedly-Japan only PS4 preorder theme (do not google this, it is very NSFW.) Of course, a game's marketing campaign is not a game (unless you're Cyberpunk, I guess) and while I think that discussion of the marketing should occur and scrutinized (not sure who is responsible here - Sega? Atlus? Vanillaware?) that it's important not to conflate the two.
The framing of characters within their sentinels is likewise worth discussing, but in a measured way that takes into account the entirety of the work. When you get drive-by posts like "wow gross not buying!!" as we've seen it poisons the well for constructive discourse. I kind of get the feeling this thread has already been poisoned in that regard because the thread, which is about an article that is trying to highlight the way the work is in dialogue with other classic works in the genre canon, has veered so wildly off-subject that it seems irrecoverable.
