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balohna

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,169
Thinking a lot of violent hip-hop gangster stuff was meant to shine a light and put you in the shoes of a criminal, even if the rapper themselves has little/no gang involvement.

But a lot of it is bravado and posturing. Some rappers surely do it for the art and to tell a story (and others actually are involved in that life, and many more are adjacent to it), but lots are just doing it like "yeah I'm tough, and this is what I WOULD do... trust me."

I think a lot of it is that pioneers of rap that talked about life on the street, gangs, drugs, etc. before it was mainstream were doing it from a place of genuine artistry. But then it became sort of the default mode of rap. And the bravado aspect of the genre was always there, so it went from "I'm a better rapper than you" to "I could and would fucking kill you."
 

TheShampion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,214
Oh yeah I can imagine there's gonna be a lot of anime in this thread.

I remember watching Konosuba a few years back thinking the joke was that the main character was this useless, disgusting pig who was a failure as a hero and all the girls surrounding him were equally annoying. Like, that it showed the exact pathetic, self indulgent wish fulfillment fantasies other Isekai shows really were.

Then it occurred to me that Konosuba really was just another one of those with the mask off. It didn't have to make a power fantasy out of a nerd falling into another world and becoming a hero, they just get to stay as awful as they want to be and still get a harem and live in an RPG world.
The worst part about Konosuba is that the anime sort of fools you into thinking it is smarter than it really is, but the actual light novel reads much more what the real joke is. The joke isn't that the main chatacter is an asshole, the joke is that they are self aware that he is an asshole but they like him anyway. It just reads as a different flavor of typical isekai rather than something that is trying to satirize or comment on.
 

Heliex

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,109
I rewatched Kill la Kill recently with a date because she had never seen it, but shes wanted to since she liked Gurren Lagann. Surprisingly I still enjoyed it and we both had a great time with it.

I think ideas are always more shallow than they seem. Theres times I think I came up with something original only to google it and find out hundreds already had that idea. Makes me feel shallow.

Thinking a lot of violent hip-hop gangster stuff was meant to shine a light and put you in the shoes of a criminal, even if the rapper themselves has little/no gang involvement.

But a lot of it is bravado and posturing. Some rappers surely do it for the art and to tell a story (and others actually are involved in that life, and many more are adjacent to it), but lots are just doing it like "yeah I'm tough, and this is what I WOULD do... trust me."

I think a lot of it is that pioneers of rap that talked about life on the street, gangs, drugs, etc. before it was mainstream were doing it from a place of genuine artistry. But then it became sort of the default mode of rap. And the bravado aspect of the genre was always there, so it went from "I'm a better rapper than you" to "I could and would fucking kill you."

I always saw classic gangster Rappers kinda like bards, passing off great stories while putting themselves in the shoes of those characters. Of course I do agree that nowadays its more just posture.
 

Punchline

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,151
Theres as much depth in art as you are willing to give it. I can't say I have really had a issue with this except in the case of Harry Potter, but in that case it's entirely just because those books are not very good, and most people misremember them as deeper in certain themes that aren't just mangled christ allegories.
 

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,463
A lot of songs. People think they're some deep song with a message and then the songwriter will say it's just stuff they imagined when they were high or something.
 

Dustlander

Member
Dec 25, 2017
422
Brazil
Cloud Atlas by the Wachowskis. I still think there's some substance in there somehow, but some things in it are pretty indeffensible like the yellowface stuff, so I find it hard to give it as much praise today as I used to.

Similarly, Sense8 (by the same creators) has a ton of problems and it's still one of my favorites pieces of media of all time lol. I'm just easy to please when I get very emotionally connected and invested in something.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,047
Neon Genesis Evangelion.

I thought it was the greatest thing ever at one point. Now I think it's some of the most juvenile self-absorbed garbage I've ever seen.

SO MUCH THIS.

God, those forum discussions in the early 2000s when everybody thought Anno was some PhD master Christian theologian are hilarious now...
 

Woylie

Member
May 9, 2018
1,849
When I was in like seventh grade I wrote a whole paper on the story in Tales of Symphonia because it BLEW MY MIND as a young tween. I hadn't really played a lot of JRPGs up to that point other than Pokemon, and this was when I was getting very into anime.

The teacher who graded that paper must have been so confused, lol.
 

Boy

Member
Apr 24, 2018
4,562
Yeah, lots of those nu-metal music from the late 90s early 00s from my teenage years.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
I definitely had an anime cringe nerd phase when I read way too much into a lot of media.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,612
Westworld Season 3. I was hoping there was more nuance to it, but after re-watching it again I realized it was just terrible.

I felt like Westworld S3 had a great underlying story plan (building a parallel between the lack of agency humanity now shared with the hosts) and the actual progression worked well, but they really needed a neutral third party to go over the script and just redline/highlight everything that either made little to no sense or didn't serve the plot.

Still, with brain turned off it was an enjoyable watch to me. Unlike S2 the soldiers had at least a bit more self preservation instinct.
 

Aldo

Member
Mar 19, 2019
1,721
Neon Genesis Evangelion.

I thought it was the greatest thing ever at one point. Now I think it's some of the most juvenile self-absorbed garbage I've ever seen.
This. It's actually deep, but it's 100% about characterization and all the religious symbolism that was endlessly discussed in early 2000s forums is just there to look cool. Mission accomplished I guess.
 

MonadL

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,888
I felt this about Kill la Kill at first.
Lol oh lord this. To be fair the first couple of episodes seemed like they were setting something up but they abandoned that with the quickness. Still enjoyed it but...yeaaaaaahhhhhh.

Edit: Also Battlestar Galactica 2004. All that time obsessing over plot details only for it to mean absolutely nothing in the end.
 
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demondance

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,808
Sure. I just think a lot of hardcore Lynch fans think there is more depth to his movies than he probably even believes there really is.

They do have a lot of emotional and thematic depth but he's working with intuition and feelings a lot. So it isn't nearly as deep as the people doing crazy charts tracking every single frame like it was a rational choice think... but in another sense it's much deeper than what those people claim it is? His works aren't really a puzzle to solve, they're just attempting to speak to your subconscious using a lot of totemic imagery.
 

crimnos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
282
I feel like most of these are more like, X or Y is not deep in the way I expected/first understood it to be. Truth is i honestly think that everything has some depth, especially depth that is done unawaringly or by accident in ways that only really become evident in different contexts.

I'm kind of on this same wavelength. Something can have depth without any intention from the creator; in fact, I'd argue that most "depth" is unintentional as too much tinkering and laboring at underlying themes can cause a piece to fall apart. From my perspective, if a work gives you a different perspective, regardless if someone tossed it off in 15 minutes, then there is some inherent depth to it in the intersection between creator and beholder.

That said, back in the 80s I thought Ted Nugent was playing a character. The truth certainly gave me a different perspective...
 

meowdi gras

Member
Feb 24, 2018
12,658
Novels I tried writing during my teens. Fortunately, it never took me more than a few dozen pages in before it dawned on me what insufferable rubbish I was writing and promptly destroyed them. You're welcome, world.
 
Nov 29, 2018
1,087
Another one for Donnie Darko. I even remember watching it at thirteen with two friends and when it was over they turned and asked me "What did you think it was about?"

Eh, I think Re:Zero kinda applies here too. For all the subversions of the traditional isekai tropes it has, it leans into them just as hard. Yeah the hero suffers loss and grows, but only from his perspective, everyone else just sees this charming dude who always knows what to do and gets all the anime ladies.
 
Sep 11, 2020
702
The worst part about Konosuba is that the anime sort of fools you into thinking it is smarter than it really is, but the actual light novel reads much more what the real joke is. The joke isn't that the main chatacter is an asshole, the joke is that they are self aware that he is an asshole but they like him anyway. It just reads as a different flavor of typical isekai rather than something that is trying to satirize or comment on.

Konosuba is just mindless fun, for the most part. I wouldn't say it's deep, and it doesn't reinvent the wheel. But I always find entertaining how much Kazuma pushes his luck to the point he self-sabotages everything good that may happen to him. He's terrible. He knows he's terrible. He can't help but being that way.

Does Kazuma in one of the books befriend a Princess, goes off to live the easy life in her castle, and is so damn terrible to the service that they plot to send him on an adventure to have him killed in the frontlines? That was entertaining.
 

Grenouille

Member
Nov 26, 2017
663
They do have a lot of emotional and thematic depth but he's working with intuition and feelings a lot. So it isn't nearly as deep as the people doing crazy charts tracking every single frame like it was a rational choice think... but in another sense it's much deeper than what those people claim it is? His works aren't really a puzzle to solve, they're just attempting to speak to your subconscious using a lot of totemic imagery.
Yeah, some movies can be evaluated as paintings are: you don't need a deep explanation or meaning, its artistic merit doesn't come necessarily from that.
 
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Dec 30, 2020
15,278
Yeeeeaaah. Ready Player One is a book I absolutely could not finish. Hurled it aside violently when I hit page 60 and it just became a laundry list of all the fond memories it was hijacking insisting I like it for remembering they existed.
 

Wood Man

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,449
When I first started playing Eternal Sonata I thought it was going to be some deep meaning behind Chopin isekai-ing it up in this fantasy world going on a journey, possibly to find himself, or maybe the meaning behind why he writes music. But who was I kidding. Just a pretentious ending loaded with a bunch of nothing.

51Id9BsjAmL._AC_SY445_.jpg
 
Mar 31, 2018
538
Dating on Tinder.

Whatever effort you put into your profile does not matter.

Picture of you in your rented Porsche on vacation in Italy however seemed to matter and was more important.

True story though :P

So that was a case of thinking too much about things and well, yeah. First impressions matter and those are not in text, it seems.
 

RetroMG

Community Resettler
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
When I was a teenager my best friend bought the soundtrack to Rent.
As a teenager, it was an amazing message of love and hope in defiance of greed and our corrupt culture.
As an adult it's mostly insufferable.
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
23,611
Not really I mean what you get out of a thing and how you interpret a piece of media is a personal thing. My views have changed on a lot of things over the years sure but I don't discredit a lot of the things that I liked in my early teens or whatnot just because now my views are different because at the time those things did mean something to me.