If they following the Rebuild Eva films then part 3 is reallllllyyyy going to shit the bed and ruin everything
-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Yoshinori Kitase on the ending of FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE (Spoilers ahead)
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
Good is subjective, but I am not really sure who we are talking about. Are all the people who disagree with the path they took man-children or is it just a few?
"Good" is debatable. The last two chapters are an exercise in historically sloppy writing for the franchise.
What I wouldn't give for good changes at this point.
Yeah, the original FF7 isn't boring but just taking that same exact story and content and mapping it to "Hey here it is in 4k on Unreal 4" would in fact be super boring and predictable.
Maybe some people wanted to return to FFVII and for them to take the safe route because they've been shitting the bed when they're tried new stories in FFs. Fighting Sephiroth again with less emotional context is the type of new story content I do find more boring than a 1:1 recreation.
I think you could say that about any adapatation or any story that has been told before. A faithful retelling could still be very fun and has been done with loads of other properties. Now maybe a subversive remake could be a decent idea, but I don't think the set up for that has been good. The alternate timelines cliche, a shallow battle against one wing angel Sephiroth where he doesn't know everyone and there's no reason to 'defeat' him, yawn. That's a more boring proposal for a new story.
So did you find the game up until the ending to be super boring?
Your calling the ending cliche when we literally don't know yet what they are going to do with this split in the timeline. And Sephiroth is way more interesting than he has ever been. He's comes just up to the edge of being 4th wall breaking with how keenly aware of events past and present he is. He is actually menacing now. And I'm all in on this chess match between Aerith and Sephiroth trying to bend the timeline to each of their favors.
Going through on hard after the honeymoon flood of nostalgia seems to point out that going through areas with all of it's slow walking, and load time masking is tedious. Then there's Sewers, and Train Yard situations where people are pretty bored of, there's some filler to extend the game time too.
Jon Cartwright from GameXplain explains why he didn't like it well and in a non controversial way.
"I feel like Final Fantasy 7 Remake has a lot of downtime, more downtime than uptime. It feels like this game wastes your time a lot, and I will go into a few examples of why I think that.
First and foremost, there are a lot of follow the NPC down a long corridor moments. Those are my least favorite moments of Uncharted, but they times it by 10, it happens constantly, all the time. So there are lots of moments where the game just have these dialog moments going, they're not really core to the story, the core story moments happen in cutscenes. So these walking sections are just kind of I guess character building moments, but they are so slow and so frequent.
There are also moments when you are just squeezing through a gap, and it's clear the game needs to load but it happens so often. It's not don in a way that hides loading cause you think to yourself, "boy, this isn't organic", this happens all the time."
etc. etc.
I didn't love Final Fantasy VII Remake :(
The remake of Final Fantasy VII has extremely high highs but unfortunately I just can't overlook how low it can get
www.youtube.com
Its wild. I'm glad though that the majority of the reaction seems very positive. Game deserves it.
There's nothing wrong with criticising what's there, the climax should be the best way to make someone excited about the next and new jouney. And the way you describe it, Aeris and Sephiroth being like Doctor Who and the Master, is a lot more boring to me and sounds like overkill.
Going through on hard after the honeymoon flood of nostalgia seems to point out that going through areas with all of it's slow walking, and load time masking is tedious. Then there's Sewers, and Train Yard situations where people are pretty bored of, there's some filler to extend the game time too.
Jon Cartwright from GameXplain explains why he didn't like it well and in a non controversial way.
"I feel like Final Fantasy 7 Remake has a lot of downtime, more downtime than uptime. It feels like this game wastes your time a lot, and I will go into a few examples of why I think that.
First and foremost, there are a lot of follow the NPC down a long corridor moments. Those are my least favorite moments of Uncharted, but they times it by 10, it happens constantly, all the time. So there are lots of moments where the game just have these dialog moments going, they're not really core to the story, the core story moments happen in cutscenes. So these walking sections are just kind of I guess character building moments, but they are so slow and so frequent.
There are also moments when you are just squeezing through a gap, and it's clear the game needs to load but it happens so often. It's not don in a way that hides loading cause you think to yourself, "boy, this isn't organic", this happens all the time."
etc. etc.
I didn't love Final Fantasy VII Remake :(
The remake of Final Fantasy VII has extremely high highs but unfortunately I just can't overlook how low it can get
Agree with most of this. (Not exactly sure why you quoted me) That user said a remake using the same story as the original would be super boring so I wanted to know if that person found the game up until the ending to be super boring because up until that point it is a fairly faithful retelling of the original.
The similar story bits are nice for sure. The boring elements described are how the scenes are broken up, the game, by the slow tedious stuff that seemed to extend the time to finish the game. The loading part of that likely being a side effect of the engine, and the need to load data. I was likely focused on "the game" part, not thinking about the story.
Ah got it. Yeah I agree about the slow gameplay stuff. I was talking about the story with that post.
Well...Kitase doesn't read Era and that's probably for the best but what I would say to him is:
FF7R was amazing because it shouldered the heavy burden of the legacy of the original and treated the original story matter with respect and expanded it lovingly. It felt like how I imagined the events as a child wrought in actual video game rather than imagination. It picked up on all the solitary lines and ran with the implied conversation. It turned the seemingly random enemy locations into occasions for environmental story telling. It turned all the epic-on-their-face encounters into honest to god epic encounters. It was magical. I never thought contemporary Square could get FF7 anymore.
And then, at the end, they toss aside that respect and treat it as an explicit enemy. It wasn't their enemy. It was their friend. The meta commentary was completely tone deaf and daft. Moreover, it didn't get FF7. That's not the FF7 planet and that's not the FF7 Sephiroth.
Look, I don't think anyone in their right mind expected that what was done for Midgar could be done for the rest of the game. Midgar is an extended setpiece well-suited to modern RPG formulae. The rest of FFVII is not save some isolated chunks here and there, e.g. Golden Saucer. There were going to be changes--elisions, additions, mutations, etc. There already were in Midgar. And none of that was bad save the whispers and the conclusion of the Shinra Building and the game. I wanted more stuff like ch. 4, not less.
I would tell Square to do a good hard look at who they were really talking to. Meseems it was themselves and their own perceptions of the burden upon them. Meseems they need to come to terms with that if they actually want the rest of this project to be anywhere near the quality of the first entry.
It is an incredibly strange situation. I'm right back where I was before the game despite having my expectations blown out of the water and having one of the best gaming experiences of my life. This is the craziest monkey paw shit I've encountered.
FF7R was amazing because it shouldered the heavy burden of the legacy of the original and treated the original story matter with respect and expanded it lovingly. It felt like how I imagined the events as a child wrought in actual video game rather than imagination. It picked up on all the solitary lines and ran with the implied conversation. It turned the seemingly random enemy locations into occasions for environmental story telling. It turned all the epic-on-their-face encounters into honest to god epic encounters. It was magical. I never thought contemporary Square could get FF7 anymore.
And then, at the end, they toss aside that respect and treat it as an explicit enemy. It wasn't their enemy. It was their friend. The meta commentary was completely tone deaf and daft. Moreover, it didn't get FF7. That's not the FF7 planet and that's not the FF7 Sephiroth.
Look, I don't think anyone in their right mind expected that what was done for Midgar could be done for the rest of the game. Midgar is an extended setpiece well-suited to modern RPG formulae. The rest of FFVII is not save some isolated chunks here and there, e.g. Golden Saucer. There were going to be changes--elisions, additions, mutations, etc. There already were in Midgar. And none of that was bad save the whispers and the conclusion of the Shinra Building and the game. I wanted more stuff like ch. 4, not less.
I would tell Square to do a good hard look at who they were really talking to. Meseems it was themselves and their own perceptions of the burden upon them. Meseems they need to come to terms with that if they actually want the rest of this project to be anywhere near the quality of the first entry.
It is an incredibly strange situation. I'm right back where I was before the game despite having my expectations blown out of the water and having one of the best gaming experiences of my life. This is the craziest monkey paw shit I've encountered.
Good storytelling stands up to repetition; in fact it thrives on it. It's why books are reread, movies are rewatched, and games are replayed. FFVII's story does not suffer from knowing what's going to happen.
It does suffer from being changed in ways that require the player to be intimately familiar with the game's greater lore to make any sense out of it.
I don't really think any of the slow stuff is there to extend the game's play time. Whether it paid off or not, it's either there for data streaming purposes or for setting the pace of an area or interaction.
I mean, ultimately if you were able to remove every bit where the characters' movement is slowed or you have to sidle between stuff I think you'd only be saving an hour tops. The game is already long, and the notion that it was slowed with the intent to pad the game out is silly.
I remember that reveal trailer. People thought the horror would be turned up to 10, there's not even any blood in the Shinra building.
One of the reliefs people had when the names of the original FF7 crew showed up was that they knew exactly what the story was about, they are the best to extend on it. Tifa wasn't that mad at Sephiroth after all.
One of the reliefs people had when the names of the original FF7 crew showed up was that they knew exactly what the story was about, they are the best to extend on it. Tifa wasn't that mad at Sephiroth after all.
I think this works perfectly fine as a standalone game. Fans who have played Crisis Core and FFVII proper are going to have fun being able to pick apart all the stuff that the next game ends up changing because of the timeline changes but I think its also because of those changes it also makes it a real easy place to jump in. And I've heard from several people who never played the original game outside of absorbing some of the more popular memes and story beats through cultural osmosis and it seems that even among people like that the response still seems mostly positive.
The slow walking and sliding between multiple objects are one thing (I'm sure some of it is pure character development/story telling), but very easy puzzles that takes quite a while to finish just feel like extending.
Also repeating sewer and it's boss, and the long train graveyard, maybe if they were a maze filled with risk rewards, making them more exciting to do and return to. Sort of like FF12 crazy maps. The Great Crystal in FF12 was crazy, might be tedious, but I felt like going back in it, and pushing deeper for exclusive rewards.
I know four or five people playing this as their entry into the series and those who've gotten to the end needed me to explain it to them. They were confused as hell. Nothing having anything to do with Sephiroth made any sense to them. Hell, even I was kinda confused by it at first and I played the original and CC and watched AC.
It's not just the ending, either. None of us can figure out why, when they know the plate is about to be brought down and their friends are dying, the party is stopping to make friends with ghost toddlers. That part of the game is not good storytelling.
Exactly.gif, I was scratching my head the entire time with the ghosts. Then they took more time when they made it to the slums gathered around Wedge, all 3 of them, chatting it up. Gogogogogo! At least leave one person with Wedge and book it.
For real. Where was the sense of urgency? You can see the firefight on the pillar in the distance! Once you get there you have literal minutes to evacuate an enormous area that's about to be crushed! You don't have time for ANY of what you're doing!
They aren't stopping to "make friends" the ghosts were preying on Tifa and Aerith's past memories to manipulate them.
You're splitting hairs. There are many, many moments during those two chapters when the party is spending precious minutes doing things that are not running the hell in the direction of Sector 7. They certainly aren't acting like a trio of people whose friends all might be about to die. It would've taken them less time to climb over the surrounding debris than it did to play hide and seek with poltergeists in the warehouse.
That's not splitting hairs at all lmao. Its literally what happens and why it takes them longer to get through that section on the way to the pillar. The ghosts are trying at every step to keep them from leaving be it by actual force or emotional/psychological manipulation. Its extremely straighforward.
If I'm not mistaken, Kitase said in another interview that story and world building were left to Nomura. Nojima may be credited as writer but that doesn't automatically mean he came up with everything. Reality is we don't know to what extent everyone was involved, but Nojima being credited as a writer could have meant he wrote the dialogue, the general script, or it could mean he worked with Nomura on the whole thing or it was all Nomura's idea. Kitase seemed to hint at the latter though.
It's not about what the ghosts are doing; it's about what the party is doing. They spend tons of time standing around chatting in both the sewers and the train graveyard, and at the base of the pillar, and ON the pillar. That's not all just the ghosts waylaying them. They are not acting as if lives are at stake at all.
Also, the train graveyard is in the Sector 7 Undercity. THEY WOULD'VE DIED TOO if the plate fell while they were chatting.
In the original game meteor is going to destroy the planet in 3 days and you can keep doing chores all around the world, breeding chocobos and goofing ian gold saucer for 50 hours.
Games need gameplay between events.
The train graveyard was lame and slow back in 1997
Games need gameplay between events.
The train graveyard was lame and slow back in 1997
Not quite that lame and slow. It didn't sidetrack into a warehouse to play ghost games. And also, older games can get away with their world being gamified more than newer ones can, where there's fully acted cutscenes.
As for the endgame stuff, mopping up quests before moving on to the ending is different than when the main story forces that sidetracking on you, because with the former you can compartmentalize it and pretend it's not canon in the story. In FFVIIR you can't exactly pretend your party ran straight to Sector 7 and didn't stop to fuck around with ghosts for a few hours.
Yeah, I'm not that bothered by stuff like this. Video games require suspension of disbelief just like any other medium.
All of the best remakes ever have completely deviated and changed everything. It's only common sense
anyone that wanted the remake to be a remake is just an entitled manbaby that can't understand the genius of Nomura
anyone that wanted the remake to be a remake is just an entitled manbaby that can't understand the genius of Nomura
Change was absolutely inevitable, there was no way this game was going to be 1:1 with Nomura at the helm.
I'm honestly really happy with where this is going, I know a lot of people aren't, but to me this is super exciting.
I feel the difference is when it feels boring or pointless it feels like an eternity, or wasting your time. I play a lot of games, and in one game I can do quick missions to get a pretty ok daily reward, but I'm so bored by daily crap that it feels like too much of a hassle to do those quick missions or boss fights. That train section make people think about doing something else, like getting to the action at that pillar.
The ghosts making the party imagine things could have been expanded on, actually, make it take the place of the train movement puzzle maybe. Go full mind trip or something, a Jessie "mom's cooking" quality level of an additional story mission, a place where time stops (mind).
Sure. But I think for many people, myself included, "expanded remake" isn't the same thing as "time travel ghosts and Sephiroth out the wazoo". And seeing people get demeaned for not liking the direction, is infuriating.
I'm on board with the theory that the Sephiroth Cloud is seeing and talking to is the same Sephiroth from the original FF7 and Advent Children timeline. Mainly because of the music queues and he has the black wing.
Yeah I totally understand where you're coming from, I'm hoping the time travel shenanigans won't be too prominent but I have my doubts. It's definitely going to be divisive, I mean it already has been since FF7R launched, but personally I don't see any side as wrong. No one has to feel a certain way, everyone is entitled to their own opinion on this.
Preach, tired of these dumb generalizations, most of the posts saying they had a problem with the ending also mention they enjoyed the majority of the content before that, but that gets ignored for some reason.
He literally says the same line from Advent Children, too. "I will NEVER be a memory".
The last thing I expected to be doing after beating this game was speculating about time travel and multiple realities. It's so pointless. The rules of time travel are subject to the whims of the writer and inherently defy conventional logic. I'd much rather be theorizing about the ramifications of an interesting choice a character made.
Yeah, same.
Like, if Zack died before the events of the game, then why did killing the Dementor President at the end of the game undo his death? Did all the dementors throughout time disappear? Does that mean we changed the events of the game we just played, since the dementors were so involved in keeping us on track? And if Zack's alive, did he get lost between that overlook and the city, and that's why he doesn't show up at Aerith's? These aren't compelling questions to be asking at the end of Midgar, they're just plot holes.
The Arbiters are no longer going to be explicitly in the picture and intervening in the story, now that Sephiroth has complete control of them, after the party defeated them in the Singularity (the crazy place in ch. 18 where we fought all of them, which I surmise is within the Lifestream)
I didn't like the ending. It soured me on the whole game, and I hadn't really thought about it after I finished it.
BUT, this two and a half hour talk with Maximillian Dood and Easy Allies turned me around, and I'm really interested in what's coming next now.
www.youtube.com
Max dives real deep into how everything in this game ties into the whole compilation, and explains (or tries to) what every means/could mean.
definitely a good listen.
og ff7/crisis core/before crisis/advent children spoilers aplenty
BUT, this two and a half hour talk with Maximillian Dood and Easy Allies turned me around, and I'm really interested in what's coming next now.
Final Fantasy VII Remake - Spoiler Mode with Maximilian Dood
Damiani, Ben, Brad, Kyle, and special guest Maximilian Dood share their impressions and big brain theories about Final Fantasy VII Remake in this wild, spoil...
www.youtube.com
definitely a good listen.
og ff7/crisis core/before crisis/advent children spoilers aplenty
Yes I get that, but that doesn't explain why their disposal affected something that had already happened before the story began.