lol right? The vitriol in that post was so over the top I had to google and make sure it wasn't a copy pasta...
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Yoshinori Kitase on the ending of FINAL FANTASY VII REMAKE (Spoilers ahead)
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
lol right? The vitriol in that post was so over the top I had to google and make sure it wasn't a copy pasta...
The more the ending has sunk in the more excited I am to see how this goes. Although I do admit that it would've been nice to see a lot of the events from the first game delivered with the grandeur of what games are currently capable of.
You mean like 90% of FF7R that ALMOST EVERYONE who played it liked?
Such a crazy concept.
Now we will probably have Aeriths death avoided because, "lets subvert expectations" lol
The thing is the new stuff with the whisperers and fighting Sephiroth like Advent Children... is all really shallow. IMO make the new cutscenes good first, then they can make commentary on the purists.
Damn, you make it sound like Nomura and Kitase spit in your cereal
It's kind of SE's fault if people are so obssessed with keeping things nostalgic because their new stuff is a bit shit.
This is a weird feeling, i cry like 2-3 time in the game, the nostalgia was there (ff7 is my second favorite ff game of all time after VI). The music was beautiful, the gameplay was on point, I love every little detail they add in the game, into the area, etc. I mean this is a amazing game overall, but that ending, was a slap in the face. I mean I finish every KH game ever release.... and I know what he can do. But after that scene into Aerith room, then something hit like a truck, i was like no no please don't go that KH way..... then boom, you know what happen and everything after that. For me it felt like everything was told before.... could mean nothing. You can change de rule when you want.... this is one of the thing i hate de most in cinema in general.... and he freaking did it.
I repect who like the twist, i mean, fine if you like it you will continue to follow everything and theorize,etc. It's just not my thing, i like when something is clear, and there no shortcut to change thing.... and i'm still shock they took that route.....
My english isn't very good but you nailed how i feel too about all that. I would have like even more they just kill Barret, then just continue from there.... the future would have been change... then you could continue to make change and deviate from the original story because yeah now barret is death.... That would have been way more effective to me.
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Exactly. Ignoring the context, ignoring the expectations, the final chapter of this game is a god damn mess: everything wrong with modern Square Enix in a nutshell.
Change the story. Go fucking wild. Keep me guessing. All I ask for is a character-driven story wherein the events logically follow from the choices people make. The ending of this game failed on that count spectacularly.
Rocco from Mega64 really described it best - the last couple of hours of this game are like a kid trying to describe a dream to the audience. There might have been a good idea somewhere inside of there, but it's so badly explained, so badly presented and so badly framed that it just comes off as abject nonsense that completely and utterly ignores the core themes and arcs of the entire rest of the game.
The funniest part is he doesn't even have a writing credit for the remake at all. The "Story and Scenario" credit goes solely to Kazushige Nojima, who is demonstrably capable of both great highs and great lows. Nomura isn't even the the sole director of the thing, but facts can't stop the hate train, no matter how easily verifiable they are lol
Seeing the online discourse only make me think The Whispers were a brilliant idea. That's what we're all doing and have been doing since the game was announced. The Whispers watching and haunting this game making sure they don't change anything. Lol so damn good
Yeah, the Nomura hate seriously gets super old. I've also seen people blaming him for the "action based combat", when it was him in fact who pushed for the game to retain some of the original combat identity and was a major factor in the game even having an ATB bar.
People just see the name Nomura and jump on the bandwagon.
Square just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFVIIR, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFVIIR's ending or you can kiss your business goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about Japanese culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in America where you can become successful by being an asshole. If you screw someone over in Japan, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the japanese public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to purchase FFVIIR, nor will they purchase any of Square's games. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Square has alienated an entire market with this move.
Square, publicly apologize and cancel FFVIIR's ending or you can kiss your business goodbye.
I'm cool with it, if and only if they have another major character die.
I mean, think about it. Would Aerith dying again really be that interesting, when the vast majority of players expect it to happen? Tifa, Barret or even Cloud dying in her place would all be incredible twists. I just hope they have the balls to actually pull off something like that.
Aeris death has more weight because she's the last of the ancients and there's the theme of returning to the planet like her people. It sounds like you're implying it was all about the sake of having a twist and for shock value.
I think that's the problem, sure you can do the "what if" story, but would the lore and themes complement that story?
This sounds exactly like me. I've spent so much money because of these rides and I'm so tired lol
If anything, it 'felt' more like Toriyama in many places... it's pretty strange to me that nobody seems to have pointed this out.
Defying fate? That's literally the entire plot of FF XIII summed up.
For the record, I'm not 'blaming' anyone. I don't mind the twist, we'll have to see where it all goes. I'm just saying this doesn't even feel that 'Nomura' to me.
Loved the twist, even if the execution wasnt 100%. I lay the blame on needing to make part 1 into a self-contained JRPG and needing an epic final boss battle. So excited to see where they take things, I did appreciate the S/G Soldier reference as well lol
Taking it as expectation instead of fate makes more sense in 7 though, since every time they try to portray something happening differently from the original game those ghosts show up and prevent it from happening differently, kind of like fans want to do lol
Taking it as expectation instead of fate makes more sense in 7 though, since every time they try to portray something happening differently from the original game those ghosts show up and prevent it from happening differently, kind of like fans want to do lol
Part 3 will be Reunion.
Part 4 will be
Holy Shit, that's a new Meta.
The Moires are in reality all the Fans that just wanted the OG game with better graphics.
Wow, is it really that divisive? I mean, it's still a good game & all of you that are mad at the ending still had fun with it, right? I have no attachment to the original game, so none of this bothers me.
I'm just excited for this "boundless, terrifying freedom" in the next game.
I'm just excited for this "boundless, terrifying freedom" in the next game.
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People can hate all they want. The original game is there for you to enjoy in various forms. I for one am 100% on board with the direction they've taken. It's far more exciting than a beat for beat remake. Also in my opinion they really did right by the characters. so I can't wait for part II.
I'm cool with whatever as long as it remains largely character-driven and is fairly easy to follow/not too convoluted.
I've never played/seen anything really outside of FF7R and a bit of XV though, so I don't have the same emotional investment or knowledge as many others.
I've never played/seen anything really outside of FF7R and a bit of XV though, so I don't have the same emotional investment or knowledge as many others.
I thought about that theory too.... like the whisper are the OG fan that always want to put back the game on the right track.... if this is really what he was thinking this is a pretty big middle finger for a bunch of people....
the wiki definition put something nice here :
"Whispering is an unvoiced mode of phonation in which the vocal folds (vocal cords) are abducted so that they do not vibrate; air passes between the arytenoid cartilages to create audible turbulence during speech.[1] Supralaryngeal articulation remains the same as in normal speech"
It's got shades of FFX as well, yeah. It's not grasping at anything FF hasn't before really.
I love the original and the Remake. I'm excited to see where they take things.
Most people seem to like it if you go by the poll in the other thread
Yup, both games where Toriyama did the scenario design for.
Ah well, to quote the original trailer: "let us embrace whatever it brings"
They might just go for the names that sound the most marketable.
Final Fantasy VII-2 (if that's what it is)
Final Fantasy VII-3 might sound a bit boring though. Maybe some cheesy subtitle like The Parting of the Worlds, I assume there's going to be more at stake this time with a multi verse being threatened lol.
I mean it's litteraly the meaning and why the twist is so good (imo, I saw that not everyone seemed to like it^^)
Saw the Jimquisition episode on the subject this morning, and he has a good point: the difference between false advertising and a subversive narration is indeed the fact that one enjoyed the twist or not. And yeah I have yet to read a single comment saying I really liked the twist, but this is false advertising, or I hated the twist but I'm happy they subverted my expectations.
Anyway great game is great, can't wait for vol 2 "Reshape" and the epic vol 3 conclusion "Reunion" :)
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i enjoyed Remake from start to finish, but i think the only part of the ending I took any exception to was Zack not dying and passing the mantle to Cloud; "You are my living legacy." That ending was so fucking powerful and set up Cloud for the original game so beautifully. Undoing that left a bad taste in my mouth.
I don't play KH, but get the impression from most that the story is a dumpster fire by part 3, and that some aspects of what they did there bled into how Remake ended. I am just hoping the next game(s) in the FF7R project don't continue to jump the shark or further undo events that meant something to fans of the original telling of the entire story (side games and all).
The whispers were interesting though, even if they seem like a tongue-in-cheek middle finger to fans wanting the classic just "glowed up." (I fall into that category)
I don't play KH, but get the impression from most that the story is a dumpster fire by part 3, and that some aspects of what they did there bled into how Remake ended. I am just hoping the next game(s) in the FF7R project don't continue to jump the shark or further undo events that meant something to fans of the original telling of the entire story (side games and all).
The whispers were interesting though, even if they seem like a tongue-in-cheek middle finger to fans wanting the classic just "glowed up." (I fall into that category)
The thing is if the new saga ends with you facing and defeating semi-god Sephiroth to save the world again, they're not exactly pushing the storytelling themselves.
I pretty much thought the entire game ground to a screeching, incomprehensible halt for the entire second half of Chapter 18. As soon as the Motor Ball fight ended it became a different, much stupider story, and all the characters started acting completely out of character with the way they were portrayed for the rest of the game.
The MECHANICS of the final boss fight were cool but the narrative reasoning for getting there and everything before and after it were unsalvageably bad. It felt like the writer got drunk and spent that entire portion of the scriptwriting process on Fanfiction.net reading stories from people who were whining about the fact that certain characters died in the original game and decided to erase every bit of loss and consequence from the story.
The game is so beloved that they didn't need to push the storytelling. It would still be wildly popular even if it was the same story and events retold with modern tech, IMHO.
If anything, I would have been happy to see how the events of discs 2 and 3 would have unfolded if the dev team hadn't been pressured into getting it out by Sony. I still remember a noticeable drop in quality across the board in the latter 1/2 of the game.
I think it's a bit like Star Trek XI where it's an alternate universe so the events of the original still happened. That said I am tired of these alternate timelines stories, it might be novel for people with the first part because it was so surprising, but I think this trope of parallel universes will get boring and even more messy as they often do.
I mean, I'm talking about this version of the story. Absolutely no one suffered any meaningful consequences because they undid them all immediately. It's a cowardly, wimpy way to tell a story that gives me no faith in their handling of the narrative moving forward.
I'm sure that they already have something in mind that will be just as meaningful. I don't know everything that happens in the original, so I don't know exactly what's being lost in the story, but I would like to be optimistic. I don't think you go out of your way in remaking a beloved game with this much production value if you don't already have a plan. Maybe Chapter 18 had to be messy to get there, but I'm sure it will payoff.
The original FFVII was a game about environmentalism, corporate overreach and greed, and dealing with loss. This one seems to be throwing most of that in the garbage in favor of a hackneyed "GOTTA FIGHT AGAINST FATE" ending where everyone who died in the original game gets to live and have a happy ending.
I'm sorry, but I just find it so childish it's impossible to see a good way forward. These writers have not done anything recently to inspire confidence, especially considering how badly the writing flew off a cliff once the new theme took over the story. The entire endgame felt like it escaped from a different story and stapled itself to this one, and the final boss fight was so shockingly unjustified by the narrative it felt like it was added in at the last minute as a joke.
Is it POSSIBLE they'll surprise us in a positive way? Yes. But it's extremely unlikely given the creative talent involved.
Y'all are wild with your Nomura hate. Nomura didn't even write the fucking game Kazushige Nojima is the one who wrote the scenario AND he also wrote the original game so maybe at the very least point the finger in the right direction?
The Nomura hate has just become a stupid meme at this point.
The Nomura hate has just become a stupid meme at this point.